Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on March 02, 2016, 03:30:54 pm
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I took my new booyew to the range and was shooting it nicely. A young fella I know asked if he could try it. He's shot my bows before so I was happy to let him. Pump my ego a bit :-\. He doesn't shoot instinctively and I noticed that he was holding it full draw for somewhat longer than I do. He might also have a longer draw than me. I draw 27.5" but my arrows are 30". Anyway when I got it back it seemed a little easier to pull. It still shot fine so I never put two and two together. When I got home I put it on the tree and it was down from 45# to 42-43#. Still not too concerned. This morning I tried it through the chrono. Before I got one of 170fps with the bulk in the high 160's. This morning they're mostly around the 160. This is with the same arrow as I used before, 435 gr. Now I'm concerned. Would 2-3# draw weight make that much difference in speed? Also, I put about 3" of Perry reflex in it. Does that have a habit of going away quickly. Since the two pieces are fighting each other even when the bow is unbraced I thought that may account for some loss. It was probably still my fault for letting him shoot it but I would probably do it again. Maybe with a few more rules and shorter arrows. :D
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The bow is now what they used to call broken in. Hello hysteresis!
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Sounds about right.I think 1# is around 2 to 3 fps.I had that happen to me too with a fellow friend.He was a compound shooter and could'nt believe I had 58# in the hedge at 28".Told him everything about tillering and over drawing and set etc.He still drew it to darn near 30".You can explain it to them but they just don't get it you know.
One time I handed the bow unstrung to a guy.He tries to bend it backwards over his knee.I stopped him.Asked him what he thought he was going to find out.He did'nt know.I keep an eye on my bow at modern ranges or with me at all times.At Mojam it's different.
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The bow is now what they used to call broken in. Hello hysteresis!
Exactly. That's why stretching the crap out of it while you tiller pays off. They wont budge if you do.
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I do 20-30 pulls when I remove wood. I go to 28". Should I be pulling it a bit farther while tillering as well as leaving it a couple of pounds heavy?
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I cringe when people ask me to shoot one of my bows. Sometimes I say no. Jawge
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I say no,, unless the arrows won't allow over draw,,
its not that you lost pounds, but also the set from the overdraw,, you lost fps on both,,sounds about right,, still seems to be shooting pretty good,,
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If a bow gets drawn 1" past its tillered mark and loses that much punch, ya' got bigger fish to fry.
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Those are your options. Paul Comstock wrote a good article on this subject a while back.
Some people like to have the wood right on that pinnacle of breakdown throughout the life of the bow(Steve) and others think that getting it out of the way is a better option.
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Those are your options. Paul Comstock wrote a good article on this subject a while back.
Some people like to have the wood right on that pinnacle of breakdown throughout the life of the bow(Steve) and others think that getting it out of the way is a better option.
Wouldn't be surprised if the young fella wasn't drawing it more than that. A light bow doesn't provide the same feedback of limiting draw.
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sounds like the bow got overdrawn 2 and 1/2 inches,, on a bow that is stressed to the max,, could make a difference,, on a bow that is overbuilt a bit, might not do too much,, but it would do something,, :) probably shoots pretty good that the 30 inch draw,,
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Wouldn't be surprised if the young fella wasn't drawing it more than that. A light bow doesn't provide the same feedback of limiting draw.
He normally shot a 30# bow. He thought mine was really heavy but he had no problem holding it a full draw. He's a lot stronger than he thinks. He's moving out of town so I don't have to worry about him any more
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Sorry to hear that- as that bow looks fantastic! I hope you're still getting plenty out of shooting it! :)
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Those are your options. Paul Comstock wrote a good article on this subject a while back.
Some people like to have the wood right on that pinnacle of breakdown throughout the life of the bow(Steve) and others think that getting it out of the way is a better option.
I'm still a the point where I get what I get when I make a bow. I can't deliberately over or under build a bow with any degree of accuracy. Overbuilding is fairly easy but I think I would way overbuild more often than not. If this bow was on the edge it wasn't because I planned it that way. My goal is to make each bow a little faster than the last so I guess I'm going to use up a lot of wood :D :D
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you can make it faster, but the question is, how long will it stay faster,,,, :)
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I think that's where skills and experience rear their ugly head. I'm slowly getting there with the skills but I'm depending on this site for the experience
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very pertinent discussion, as I am just at that break-in stage with a new bow on the tree
how do most do the final break-in or controlled "overstress"? seems to me like all the exercising earlier on in the tiller process is not as critical as the way a bow is treated once you reach full draw.
and how much weight loss off the "pinnacle", do most feel is a happy medium for a hunting bow?
thanks
willie
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I learned the hard way twice back in the day. I only shoot 26 1/2 And I always like to over build my bows a inch maybe 2. All stave bows are a little different.
So I any one pulled my bow I handed them one of my arrows (27"). With instructon not toover straight draw. I just love it when someone shows up at my shop. And as soon as he pulls one of my self bows straight up and down. I know he's a compounder.
I have no disrespect to compounders. I use to be one of you for 11 years. But you boys have taken TV HUNTING SHOWS TO HEART
Quit trying to hunt like these people only hunt only get the good footage. And they'll do anything to get it.
I know I filmed for 2 well know hunters from 86 To early 90's.
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I generally only use the tree till around 20" or so, thin I start short drawing it shooting an arrow till i feel it's good st the draw kength I want. Its my opinion that pushing that arrow helps the bow break in a whole lot better yhan exercising it on a tiller tree
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I generally only use the tree till around 20" or so, thin I start short drawing it shooting an arrow till i feel it's good st the draw kength I want. Its my opinion that pushing that arrow helps the bow break in a whole lot better yhan exercising it on a tiller tree
Agreed , I normally go to about 22-24".
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I don't call a bow shot in until it has a few hundred arrows through it. Even then, it will change over time. I used to be more deliberate about breaking a bow in by leaving it strung, overdrawing it, shooting it in at short draws but I don't know that it made much difference. Now I just shoot the crap out of it and continually check tiller before I finish it.
You lost quite a bit of deflex during glue-up right? That points to some kind of design or construction issue. I'd think that through some. What was the width? How thick was your boo? What kind and quality of boo and yew? How did you glue it up? How much R/D was in it?
Well made boo backed bows take a lot of abuse. I'd be surprised that simply overdrawing it by a couple inches would make that much change.
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I believe the Perry reflex pulled the a bit of the deflex out. As I tillered it I lost a little bit more deflex. I read that that's normal in a Perry reflex bow. I can get my fingers under the handle now when it's on a flat surface. It'a 1 1/8" wide at the fades. Boo id 1/8" thick at the middle and 1/16" at the tips. Don't know about the boo. Bought a 4" log at the garden center. West systems epoxy. Don't know what you mean by how much R/D?
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Perhaps I am confused :)
I assumed you glued it up in reflexed tips/deflexed handle - R/D - style.
Maybe I should back up. How did you glue it up? On a form?
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The deflex was put in when I spliced the billets. I recurved the tips with dry heat. Then I bent the limbs into about 3" of reflex, applied the bamboo backing and held it like that until the glue dried.(Perry reflex)
I just took a look at it and it's reflex has pretty much gone so it's just a deflexed recurve now :D :D
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and what moisture content was the bow when you glued it up,,??
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That's a good question. The billets were offcuts that have been kicking around for at least a year but they weren't out of my warm box. It's been 50% RH in my shop all winter so I would guess the MC would be in the 10% range.
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That's not a method I have tried but it seems like it should be OK. Assuming good glue-up and all. Who knows why things happen sometimes. It's like Pooh says, "You never can tell with bows." Or is it bees? I have those too and they are even more unpredictable :)
Have you seen Dean Torges' video "Hunting a Bamboo Backed Bow"? It is a great resource for this type of bow.
At any rate, your bow is still shooting pretty fast, 160 is nothin' to sneeze at. Have fun with it.
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Yeah, it shoots nice and now has nice shiny hoof tips. I off and working on an R/D Ocean spray. I'll try to keep some reflex in it. The nice thing about deflex is it doesn't pull out.