Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowEd on March 03, 2016, 10:10:04 pm
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Ok I got my cedar core and my maple backing for R/D 66" bow.Should I straight line taper front view or parallel to mid limb and then taper?Core is a shade over 1/2" thick 2" wide.Backing is 3/16" thick and 2" wide.I'll glue on a 12" handle after mating of core and backing off the form.Think it'll make 50#?I'm sure someone on here has tried this come on....
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Ed I go parallel 6" past the fades then straight taper to tips. I can't help ya with the cedar no experiance there
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Ed I go parallel6" past the fades then straight taper to tips. I can't help ya with the cedar no experiance there
I agree with the layout shape.
I've done a tri lam with boo cedar core and a white oak belly. It come out ok but the core was about 3/8" thick I felt it was too much because the white oak was pretty thin. The bow came out to about 45lbs if I remember right.
Patrick
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Thanks fellas.I'm gonna start @ 66" long.Probably won't make the poundage but maybe.I could pike it a bit if it does'nt.I'll lose some reflex then though.Making it thick enough might help.I was thinking to parallel to midlimb which is a bit farther for more poundage reasons.Might be problematic clamping it at the deflex post then though.I'll keep it 1/2" thick @ the riser and belly taper it from there.
Using Dean Torges model of R/D form.
I'm a little surprised the cedar took the bamboo on it's back.Suppose the oak helped there.
Yea now that I think about it more it might just turn out to be a so so bow but I'll do it anyway.A poor man's bamboo yew ehhhh.
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Ohhh if it does'nt make the poundage I've got a regular woman now.....She could shoot it.
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Ohhh if it does'nt make the poundage I've got a regular woman now.....She could shoot it.
Problem solved lol]
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Torges form will give a bow around 3" of reflex @ the tips.Now hoping to keep half after coming off of the form.After tillering the tips might be even with the back.
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Ed, the bow I made took about 2.5 in of set. It shot in the upper 150's through the chronograph. With boo being so strong in tension and cedar being so good in compression it might turn out for you. I thought the one on built was a little on the narrow side but it shot nice and had a smooth draw. The only thing I wish was different was that it had some Perry reflex glued in to it. Sleek and I glued it up flat. And with the power lam it looked deflexed from the start. I did notice that if I were to do a boo backed cedar then I think I would want to start with a thicker piece of Cedar.
Patrick
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I'd be afraid of the bamboo crushing the cedar myself.Could be wrong with that thinking,but I think not.That's why I'm using maple.I'm starting out wide like 2".I'll see if it can get the poundage.How wide was yours to start with?I'll do a dry clamp down run on the cedar today to see what happens.Got some very nice maple backing here now.
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Maple is a great backer Ed and lots easier to prep than boo
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That should give you more than enough for a 50# bow. I recently finished a mild R/D hickory backed ERC that I'm going to post. The backer was 1/8", with a long 3/16" red elm power lam and 3/8" ERC belly. It's 65" NTN and just under 1 3/4" wide at the fades and wound up at 45#. I kept it parallel for 8" past the fades. ERC is scary soft, but I'm pretty impressed with it as a belly wood.
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Ed, that bow was right at 1/14 wide and I think about 65ntn.
Patrick
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I see Pat.Your bow might have been a little too narrow but it's nice shooting 45#.At least I come to anchor good with that.....lol.
You bet bubby the more I use it the nicer I like it.Maple that is.A friend of mine Grant north of me an hour had a bunch of maple strips from a construction job they were going to throw away.He's a bow maker himself and knew the value of it so he got it for nothing.We prepared a few good 3/16" by 2" wide 6' long straight backings yesterday through his drum sander.Amazing how much better a glue line you get flattening and evening everything up.Using smooth on for glue.
I parralleled the limbs out about 10" from the fades to be sure.I can side tiller on that.Tapered it with the farriers' file and sanding a good 3/16" along entire limb from the fade to 4" in front of the tip.Dry fitted it on the form.I weighed the whole business before glue up and it weighed 23.05 ounces.That's without a handle.It's got more than enough wood behind it to make 50#.Should come in @ around 18.4 ounces.Longer handle might give it a little more weight though.The last one before the fades give out on me would gain reflex as I removed belly wood.This one will need to have some side tillering done to it too.Might end up 1 and 3/4" wide too instead of 2" or somewhere in between.It's 66" long TTT.
Taking pics of it along the way.Pretty easy straight forward build.A kit bow.I like Torges' form until I find something better anyway.This time it'll have long fades of 4" to ease my shooting arrow pass in there to my handle and they should be less stressed because of the deflex too.Right now I got it with about 4" of reflex.Hopefully I'll get to keep 2" off the form and then tiller half that away to a shooter.
Anyway till the glue dries.
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Man that sounds nice Ed.
Yeah it was a bit narrow but that's all the boo I had to work with. Believe it or not, it was supposed to be a kids bow. Just couldn't bring myself to take all of the white oak off the belly.
Good luck on your project, can't wait to see the pics!
Patrick
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OK I'll show some pics here of the progress.Hopefully to a successful bow...lol.Get this ERC monkey off my back...lol.I'll put a slash and the word finished on this thread when I'm done.
I've mentioned things about it earlier here.This is the glue up on the form.Since I did'nt have a form and air pressure hose I used inner tube wrapping.It's pretty well known to work and in the past before I was on PA I did a half dozen bamboo hickory backed bows.A couple with horn bellies too.
This is just an ERC core with a maple backing.I've never been exposed to using power lams etc. and sorta understand their purpose though.
First since these limbs were 2" wide and using this wrapping method I used a pine buffer pressure plate to put pressure in the middle more.People have used rope etc. which should work too.Maybe someone might want to try this type bow someday.I'm sure there is different ways to accomplish this with the same results.
The pine buffer strips go on top of backing after wrapping back onto core with cellophane[keeps mess down] and then it's wrapped with the innertubing strips.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1124_zpsc4ualdvt.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1124_zpsc4ualdvt.jpg.html)
The dry fit onto the form after tapering the limbs
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1154_zpstf7qxmaj.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1154_zpstf7qxmaj.jpg.html)
Now the wrapping.Since I used smooth on epoxy it can be heat activated or let to cure 24 hours at room temp.I've used c clamps too but don't like the spaces that can show up between the buffer pads or between the clamps if using a long buffer pad although I hav'nt seen smooth on fail usung c clamps though even on horn laminations.The thing about using inner tube is it's black.Set this bow out in the sun on a 90 degree day and it'll get to 150 degrees and cure in 5 to 6 hours instead of waiting 24 hours.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1155_zpssza88kxw.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1155_zpssza88kxw.jpg.html)
Above the wood burner since I don't have a hot box or a hot sun around me this time of year.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1156_zpsoc9c0eap.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1156_zpsoc9c0eap.jpg.html)
Specifics for using smooth on can be obtained from their site.Main thing is to get a thin even glue line the best you can.
Next is clean up and glueing overlays onto tips and tillering it to a bow.Not very primitive I know but it yields an all natural material good shooting type bow.I've seen many on here that are beauts using accomadating materials.
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Sort of jumped the gun here.I'll have to put a handle on the old girl before tillering.I'll show how I've been shown to do that too first and then overlays and tillering..
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Definitely watching this one! 😎👍😎👍
OneBow
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Oh, now it's getting good!
Patrick
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I think the curve should have been moved out closer to the tip than it is. Thats ok with fiberglass but can be a nightmare with wood. Hopefully you will prove me wrong, wouldn't be the first time. Looking forward to the ensuing battle!! Good luck, if it hods up it will be a shooter!
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Do you glue it together, wrap with rubber, and then clamp it in the form? I noticed the clamps were put on after the rubber so I wondered.
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Yep DC it gets wrapped first then clamped to form
You could easily be right there Steve.Deans' form has two deflex posts.One closer to the tip he calls a target bow and one closer to the handle called a hunting bow.Think the difference is about 3" in distance.I took his word for it.I have tillered these before though off same placement on form.Bamboo backed hickorys mostly a lot narrower.I know it's way overbuilt at the moment.Getting it to work on the inner third enough you mean?Hopefully I'll get it all worked out.
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They shoot like demons when they come together. If you are wide enough you might be good to go, I thought you said 1 1/4 wide.
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Yea 2" Steve but I'm sure it's about an 80 # bow at the moment.Gonna leave a bit of red dust on the floor for sure.Thank god for spindle sanders....lol.Previously during that first failure at this combo and glue it gained reflex with belly removal.3/16" thick maple back on this.Right now off the form it's sitting with 3.25".Think I'll side tiller a bit on this one.For some reason I don't figure it to be a feather sizzler but I could be wrong.They say cedar can be pretty snappy though.Got the handle dry fitted and ready to glue on but it came from off a thick plank outside and was'nt dry I thought.Don't want to glue wet wood.Weighing that till it quits now too.
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DC....After core is tapered and ready for backing I size it with smooth on using a putty knife.Make it glassy in a low light angle.Warm the wood first if you can.Then I put the two together and wrap it with cellophane three places to hold it in place.Then wrap it completely with cellophane from tip to tip.The cellophane keeps the mess contained when I wrap it next with the innertubing as tight as I can.Then it goes on the form and clamped down.
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Thanks Beadman. I'll use the cellophane next time. Last time I ruined a sweater and a shirt :(
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Nice pics Ed that cedar/ maple combo is really going to look sharp !
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I'm watching with interest what you get out there ...
Looks good so far
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That's what they say stick bender.Going on past experience from others.Don't know till I try.
I know it won't campare to your purple haze bow simson but I'll be satisfied if I can get it shooting and stable.
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A little farther along here with this build.The handle has been cut out and fitted.Not really glued yet because I think the handle wood contained too much moisture yet from laying outside.Within a week I'll glue it on.
First after core and backing come off form and it's sides are cleaned up of excess glue I measure out 6" from center both ways for a foot long handle and fades.I lay the core on a piece of wood as wide as my bow and just trace the inside curvature of that foot length.Adding backing & core the extra wood for a 1.5" thick handle in the center 4".Cut it out with band saw.Measure where 4" handle will go in the center.Sand and fit it perfectly to the core.Thinner laminations bendable and glued together for the same depth can be used too for highlights etc.but I had plenty of extra cedar and wanted a solid piece.Here's some pics.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1161_zpst9fvpzru.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1161_zpst9fvpzru.jpg.html)
Next sanding it to fit perfectly.If you can finger pressure any light away your close enough for a thin glue line with c clamps
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1163_zpshat6lgbl.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1163_zpshat6lgbl.jpg.html)
Fades drawn onto it too for later cutting.You want them kind of sweeping not straight line.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1164_zpsjfmntuae.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1164_zpsjfmntuae.jpg.html)
Finally the dry fit and ready for glue up.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1157_zpsvflgdzl5.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1157_zpsvflgdzl5.jpg.html)
Bows like these can be made with self bows too which I have out of different woods but not out of this tempermental red cedar.Again this is just one way to do it of which I've been shown. There are other ways too.Still a ways away from tillering yet where it hopefully will become a bow.I've reduced some already on the outer limbs but not too much.Want to keep my reflex enough for it to work decently on the inner limbs but not too much into the fades.They are touchy to tiller that's for sure.For me at least.
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You do have option yet too to put your arrow pass a little closer to the center of the bow with this long of a handle.
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Do you plan to put a thin lam of the maple under the ERC Block for the handle when you glue it to the belly of the bow?
OneBow
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Great tutitorial Ed that glue joint with that drum sanded maple looks flawless keep the pics coming locking this one in for the future
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Thanks fellas
That's a thought I realized about but nope just red cedar to red cedar.I'm not too worried about the glue line giving if that's what your question is intended about.Well fitted oil and grease free fit and smooth on.I'll warm the wood before sizing like I did core to backing.I can see your point though.You might prove me wrong.We'll see.
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Looks great Ed!
I'm sure you will, but make sure your fades are in the core and fades into your glued on handle. It could pop off if not. But you probably know that already.
Patrick
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Really good! Badger is right about the tips being not following the curve quite far enough, but that's ok. In that case I would keep the full width out to mid-limb.
MY best luck with both tiller and shootability on R/D bows comes when the first 25% off the limbs bends enough to do it's share. That isn't a lot, since they are already deflexed, though. That middle 50% of the limb, where the most curve is , bends the most, and the outer 25% bends less again.
If during tillering you get the feeling that your tips are glued up too "straight", then you just have to leave em a tad thick and narrow, and make them bend less, and move some of that bend closer to the handle, where you'll be glad for that 2" width.
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Thanks fellas.....I started on an osage while waiting for handle wood of cedar to get dry.So no more pics as of yet.
Since this has a foot long overall handle including fades that gives me 4" fades each approximately.I plan on carrying them full width at least an inch towards the grip then to a suitable arrow pass.I'm pretty sure if any thing goes on this cedar the glue won't be the fault.It'll tear the cedar apart with glue line intact.
Right now my taper from parallel limbs starts about 8" from fades or 9" if extended like I said.Your right I know I've done these with bamboo backed hickory and before and they do work in a smaller area.Desnser material though.A recipe for failure but also flip side if successful with good performance if done right.We'll see.
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OK for those who care here's a little more progress on this bow.This bow has me nervous....lol.
Glued handle to core and backing with smooth on and over the stove it goes.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1176_zpsmca4bjpt.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1176_zpsmca4bjpt.jpg.html)
Cleaned it up and sanded my fades in
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1180_zpsqulymhzm.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1180_zpsqulymhzm.jpg.html)
Side profile
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1178_zpsbp2gv1il.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1178_zpsbp2gv1il.jpg.html)
Top view profile
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1179_zpsm6buothe.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1179_zpsm6buothe.jpg.html)
The 4,5" long handle is still 1 and 1/8" wide.Not to my liking but the fades are 2.25" long and it's 1" thick where the taper starts to the 4.5" handle.The taper is 1.5" long to a 4.5" long handle.Hope it's enough to stop the bending to the handle.Parallel out 8" from fade on limbs.The bow is still way over built.It weighs 22.70 ounces and pulling on it with the long string it took about 50# just to get the tips even with handle.Guess I'll continue to remove belly material to get it to brace.
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Side profile is shapely.
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It would be nice in bows if looks could kill but a lot of times it's not that way....ha ha.For some fortunate few it is true though.
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That hanle section you glued on is thick enough as long as you don't get it bending inside to much. I would get the handle narrowed up like you want it Ed
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Here's some pics of what I'd like the handle to be.Inside 4.5" for handle/1.5" fade/Another 2.25" parallel width on handle to stop bending.It's an inch thick there too/then to the working limb.Total of 12".
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1181_zpsupfmbteh.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1181_zpsupfmbteh.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1182_zpsq1o2hp95.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1182_zpsq1o2hp95.jpg.html)
I appreciate the insight on this one.As of now it is way overbuilt yet.I'll continue to remove belly wood evenly off of each limb to keep my taper consistent.
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As soon as I can get 6" of tip movement past handle at 50# with long string I'll brace her and see what I got.
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Man Ed, that is looking pretty good to me. It's a bit over built but you will probably fix most of that by the time your done.
Patrick
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That cedar maple colour contrast is totally gorgeous! :)
I'm rooting for ya on this one mate! :D
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That is beautiful combo that cedar is beggin for some finish ,that grain will really pop off ,it's going to be a looker !
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Thanks fellas but you know it's got to be a shooter before it's a looker....ha ha.Gonna get closure to this success or failure.
I took a little over 2 ounces off it today.1 ounce out of forming up my handle and a little over 1/2 ounce per limb off too.It was 22.70 and now 20.55 ounces.All belly tillering evenly from both limbs.Used the farriers' rasp and 6" block of 2"X4" with 36 grit paper on it.I'm looking at about a 68 pound pull with the long string to get a good 7" brace.Looks to be bending good and should be good enough on the short string too.Oh it's still got a little over 3" of reflex understandable but the reflex increases as I remove belly material again like the other.
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OK.....Finally shooting a cedar bow yipeeeeee!Could'nt wait till it was completely finished so I was shooting it in late today and letting it rest for an hour here.Shot 20 to 30 arrows.490 to 500 grain and 47 to 50 spined 30" arrows.Pretty snappy but it's fresh you know.Robin was around and shot a pic for me.It's gonna be maybe a week till I get it all finished up.There's a shoot this saturday for the Iowa traditional bow hunters society a couple of hours north of me.I'll shoot it some more there.Even pulled it to 29" a few times just for safetys' sake.About 48#@28"or about 50#@29".64.5" NTN.1/16" positive tiller.I really don't think it's absolutely perfect tiller but damn close anyway.The discrepency is way out towards the tips anyway.Think I might leave it.Don't want to lose any more weight and I don't feel like piking it either.Absolutely dead in the hand with the stiff handle and very quiet.5/8" thick arrow pass.18.85 ounces.
I want to thank everyone for their tid bits of advice and encouragement.I appreciate it.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1184_zpsnfebuim9.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1184_zpsnfebuim9.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1183_zpsnxdtvipi.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1183_zpsnxdtvipi.jpg.html)
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Wow ...Sweet
DBar
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Another success for you Ed after your first faliure you picked your self up dusted off went back and made it work Impressive !
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Alright Ed! It looks pretty dang good to me. Maybe a little stiff out at the tips but you said it was dead in the hand so. If it shoots good it is good! Congrats!
Patrick
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That is one sweet looking bow. Nice work!
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Thanks fellas...Shooting it gives new meaning to the saying dead in the hand.Stiff handle and cedar limbs.Because of it's width it's darn near half and half cedar and maple.Not quite.Hav'nt really measured.I usually like my outer 8 to 10 inches stiff and narrow practically on all of my bows.It rest with around a 1.5" set back.Lost almost half through tillering but figured on that.After a couple of hours of shooting it still gives the arrow around 3/4" of set back punch.I guess it lives up to it's reputation.Great target bow but might get a crazy hair to try to down a few critters with it.
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Nice!
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OK finally a little closure to this bow here.Thanks for tagging along and looking.Put a few thin coats of laquer finish on it,a brain tan handle,cow horn overlays,and some of Robins' crazy yarn.Still a bit of improvement I could make I feel.The fades could be rounded more maybe without any danger.Other things too.I notice consistently clean arrow flight with this deflexed handle compared to a reflexed type bow.Like I've heard talk about recently.With it's 48#@28" coming to anchor is better consistently so I'm more accurate also.Tillering these wider limbs caution has to be taken to keeping width even on both edges.I notice one place out towards the tip end on the top limb that's not exactly right.Can't really see it till you look down the edge of limb at brace.All in all a sweet shooting snappy bow.Till the next one ehhhhhhh!!!!Colors on this one are appealing.The poor mans' yew bow.Some more pics.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1186_zpsjskidqgo.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1186_zpsjskidqgo.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1187_zpspltpsxty.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1187_zpspltpsxty.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1190_zpsfoqfxbfh.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1190_zpsfoqfxbfh.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1188_zps6lanascg.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1188_zps6lanascg.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1189_zpsmpeftagb.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1189_zpsmpeftagb.jpg.html)
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Darn camera kinda shows the string alignment wrong.It actually is about an 1/8" off from being center shot although I've heard the string has to be about 3/16" passed arrow shelf to be called a true center shot correct?
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Looks nice, Ed. Tiller is nice to. Its good to see an RD that is bending where it should.
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I like everything about this bow. Those color striations on the belly are neat. Tips look great. As PD said so does the tiller. Great job sir!
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Thanks I know I said I'll make 2 or 3 more a while back but this one got me all stressed out along the way with 2 previous failures.She's not perfect but it'll have to do.If I can find some more clean cedar I may do another though.Got a great source for some cheap clean maple backing though someone may want to talk to me about in the future though too.Stuff will be drum sanded and consistent too.Not coming off a band saw uneven and varied like from these flash fried companies out there.
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Fantastic Craftsmanship!!! Great thread to follow, now I gotta figure out how to save with the pics. Maybe print it?
I really like your shooting glove, could we see some more pics. Thanks, John
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You want to see some fantastic craftsmanship take a gander at simsons' purple haze bow but thanks anyway.Think my skills are still in the intermediate stages compared to what I've seen on here.After so many bows there's too many decisions to be made for something different.Did take a pic of it finished at rest though too yet.
It's actually holding about 1.75 reflex now.That's overnight after shooting.There are other very nice cedar bows displayed on this forum in the past.Blackhawks,Gundocs,GBs,and simson's to think of off hand here.Some glued up and some self bows.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1191_zpsnxjdcwhg.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1191_zpsnxjdcwhg.jpg.html)
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Outstanding!
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That bow really came out nice, I was rooting for you but I honestly thought the odds were stacked against you. Great job!!
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I was glad to see you lower the weight on that a bit. What made you decide to drop weight? was it starting to take some set?
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Great lookin bow there Ed!! I love me a cedar bow. Even though I've never had one not explode on me. It's been a while though, you're making me want to give it another go.
Tattoo Dave
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I really like the way you finished it, Ed. The contrast between the maple and cedar is very appealing. I want to make another one now, too. The hard part is finding a nice straight grained board without a ton of knots in it. :)
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I really like what you have done with this combo, my hats off to you
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Wow I new it would be beautifull and it crrtanly is !!
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Very nice looking bow...
Thanks Leroy
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very nice,, congrats on your bow, B
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Thanks fellas.....The tillering was a bit more touchy than doing a plain old osage self bow that's for sure.Fidgity bugger.Not letting it work into fades but still to them etc.The reflex area always showing stiff etc.Getting it evenly braced with a nice even bend on both limbs without stressing it on the tree was a mistake.I lost at least 10#'s or more for sure doing that.Used a 6" 2"X4" block with 36 grit paper to tiller it.Did'nt count my strokes on each limb just made pencil marks and sanded them away I thought evenly to both limbs.I finally said to heck with this see saw action on these limbs positive to negative tiller and put it on the tree pulled it to about 27" or so and lucky enough I was left close to even tiller with about 3# to spare from what I ended up with.So I really could'nt tell ya what the initial starting weight was.Had to be over 65#'s.Feel lucky to have a bow with the poundage I got.Gave it about 1/16" positive tiller and finished sanding it and quit at present weight.
The arrow flight and cast is what impresses me most about this bow.When I come to full anchor even the 4.5" long and 1/2" to 5/8" tall feathers will hiss a bit.Those are 10gpp arrows.Fast flight string.Shot it through the chrono and it shot respectable.Not completely sure I'm coming to full anchor each time though either and after shooting 40 arrows or so first.Lower 170's but not to 180 was it.Been shooting the shit out of it.Hopefully I'll have a good day of shooting at the ITBA shoot tomorrow with my FG shooting buddies.This bow is'nt broken in yet in my mind so I'll see what happens down the road.
Appreciate you guys hanging in there with this build of mine here.Appreciate your input.
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Stoner....Some beef rawhide,sheared sheepskin,and some braintan make this contraption.Take a ladys' tight fitting garden glove apart with the index and thumb as a pattern and sew one up with a rawhide sheep skin padded arm band.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1103_zpsdlqcgfje.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1103_zpsdlqcgfje.jpg.html)
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I think the 170's is very respectable and realistic for the amount of reflex it is holding,, seems to a really sweet shooter,,, I think it might just have enough cast to kill a deer,, :)
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Thanks Brad....It actually is my go to target bow mostly because of the lighter poundage.Coming to full anchor consistently has haunted me.......but wooden arrow flight on it is almost consistently flawless which would get me my best penitration that's for sure.I don't shoot carbides to cover my bow and spining and form flaws.Like some people I won't mention.......lol.
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Thanks for posting the pic of your glove contraption. Pretty niffty, now I got another project for "My List" which keeps growing faster that I can complete. John
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That came out sweet Ed
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Thanks again fellas.
Yea you know this deer killing concern issue was put to rest by me last fall when I know for a fact I hit my deer with not more than 45#'s so that paticular arrow is'nt going more than 150fps.....but still I can't seem to help to try to get the most I can.Keeps the fire burning I quess in this bow making for me.Like they say putting it where it counts counts for more.
Another mistake done here is I used deft lacquer from a spray can figuring it was an exterior finish.We shot for 2 hours or so while it was snowing constantly the whole time in northern Iowa and after quitting the finish peeled up or come loose......[not for exterior use it says on the can in fine print].....so I sanded it down again and put what I know is exterior finish lacquer called magna lac.Dries in 1/2 hour at room temp and bow can be strung to shoot.Not really natural but I like it's quick cure clear/non yellowing hard finish.
Anyway just gonna say it does help to practice practice practice with these bows.Had a blast shooting again.Only all natural material bow shot there again but it did'nt take a back seat.Told em I'll take it with me on a canoe trip sometime.....lol.Since it's so wide.On the way home people were in the ditch from the short lived snow storm.
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well glad you got her fixed back up
about coming to full draw,, I had the same issue, then I realized ,, I was coming to full draw for me, it was just shorter,,
so I design my hunting bows to suit my draw,, thats about 25 inches,, I can still get into my back and get my elbow back,,at that draw,,and it makes a nice quick shot at the deer,,,I am getting the full performance at that shorter draw,, I can still shoot a long draw bow,, and have made bows with 30 inch plus draws for other people,, and can shoot them fine,, a 25 inches draw bow just feels more natural for me,,especially for close fast hunting shots,,
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That sure is a sexy little redhead! Nicely done Ed! Nicely done. I knew it was only a matter of time before it came together for you. Josh
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Well it was nice while it lasted.Shot like a raped ape,and man I could hit something with it too.......lol.Very stable bow.Think I got close to 1000 arrows through it before the red cedar limbs chrysalled like crazy at the deflex and reflex points on the form.At that point there was about as much maple thickness as cedar on the limbs.Guess it could'nt handle the stress and pressure....lol.It's on my lessons learned and shelf of shame now.....lol.Think these follow up things should be posted now and then too.
I'm not through yet.....lol.
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well seems like you could make the maple more thin, and it would work,, thats a difficult design,,so got to me a learning curve there,, you will get it for sure next time,,,, :) you don't want to try it with osage,, it would be purty
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I've done this same design with osage a time or two with BBO's with no problem.I've never chrysalled osage.Cedar is a different animal.The limbs on that cedar were snappy just like adverstised though and yes a thinner backing will be on next time.Gotta find me some suitable cedar though first.
Went ahead and grabbed a piece of hickory 60" long [can't break that without really screwing up.....lol.] to put some horn and sinew on to feel better.Got it floor tillered with the horn and 1 course of sinew on.Gonna put three courses on.Core is 50%.Horn is 25% and sinew is 25% of thickness.Plans are to crank her up to about 10" of reflex to tiller from down to 52#@28" again.Should be able to keep 7" for sure.Have in the past.I like the way those bows shoot.
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I've done this same design with osage a time or two with BBO's with no problem.I've never chrysalled osage.Cedar is a different animal.The limbs on that cedar were snappy just like adverstised though and yes a thinner backing will be on next time.Gotta find me some suitable cedar though first.
Went ahead and grabbed a piece of hickory 60" long [can't break that without really screwing up.....lol.] to put some horn and sinew on to feel better.Got it floor tillered with the horn and 1 course of sinew on.Gonna put three courses on.Core is 50%.Horn is 25% and sinew is 25% of thickness.Plans are to crank her up to about 10" of reflex to tiller from down to 52#@28" again.Should be able to keep 7" for sure.Have in the past.I like the way those bows shoot.
Now that's a bow I gotta see for sure! I would love to see how that goes together with the horn and hickory.
Sorry about your cedar maple bow. I know that you can get one of that design. Just gotta tweak it a bit.
Patrick
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Thanks lebhuntfish but in the horn bow thread there are arts of work for sure there.I've just modified mine a bit to my liking and length and ease of construction to get what I want and like.Kind of a mid stage horn bow type I quess.Not quite 1/3/1/3/1/3 thickness construction but enough to do the job for me for a long time.Does take only about 3 months to get what I want then though.
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Thats cool Ed, I've always been intrigued with the horn bows.
Patrick
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Ed, just examining the design for a minute and I am not being critical because I played with that same design a whole bunch. But it seems like the only way to tiller it out is to loose the unbraced profile which defeats the purpose of the design. Where if the hook was moved further down toward the tip you would have more room to tiller the inner limb. Another method is to simply reflex the entire limb in a nice soft arc. A bow really should maintain the look of its unbraced profile most of the way through its draw. Otherwise we loose the benefits of the profile.
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I welcome the constructive critique always here.No bother.I'm sure your right and see your point to make sense.Counter productive comparisons of unbraced profile to full draw profile.Fighting each other so to speak.Tillering bows with the reflex out to the tip farther and over all on the whole limb is a lot easier.The previous bow was very touchy about wood removal even with just sand paper on a block.I kept having a flat spot at the reflex post to get rid of for a nice rounded even braced profile.In the process I compromised the integrity of the cedar and the unbraced profile.Might sound like a weird way of looking at it but I see what you mean.Wood just was'nt meant to function that way.Never shot out a chrysalled up bow before.Guess it takes a while but it will finally crush and give it up and snap.I'll get another piece of nice enough cedar and try again sometime.Thanks for the comments.
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you can definitely do it,, just tone the design down a bit, you will still get good performance , even if you made a straight bow with some reflex,, the woods you used will give you nice cast,, I can see the attraction to the beautiful lines of the initial profile,, look forward to seeing the next one,, :)