Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: JW_Halverson on April 13, 2016, 02:53:15 pm
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So, yesterday I finally got my new issue of P.A. I noticed Tony Kinton had reviewed a folding, bamboo, pre-finished horsebow kit from Mead Longbows. A little crude looking, I will admit, lacking in some refinements, but intriguing.
So I tracked the company down on their Facebook page and scrolled thru. Lotsa links to Youtube videos of the bows being shot, even a series of how-to vids by the maker on how to complete your kit. OK, now I am nibbling about the edges of the bait, looking to find the barbed hook before gulping down.
There was no mention of prices that I could find, so I clicked on the link for ordering. When I saw the price, my normal miserly reaction was overcome. In an instant, I had typed in my Visa digits and hit enter! I guess when the tube with the kit parts shows up, I will see what happens!
Anyone assembled one of these li'l stinkers?
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My goodness JW... Do you have a bunch of Rudder bows too? >:D
But 200 fps with hunting weight arrows and zero refinements? Must be really special bamboo.
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First i heard of it was in the new issue too, what we need now is a REAL review done in typical JW fashion, ya hear?😈
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My goodness JW... Do you have a bunch of Rudder bows too? >:D
But 200 fps with hunting weight arrows and zero refinements? Must be really special bamboo.
I will check with mullet about that special buffalo whiz treatment he talks about, magical stuff.
First i heard of it was in the new issue too, what we need now is a REAL review done in typical JW fashion, ya hear?😈
I intend to see what I do with pictures and words.
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JW, was that David Mead. If so I had a lengthy conversation with him at the classic last year. Great guy too. He also has plans for a portable shave horse that usually use a folding chair to sit on. Pretty cool stuff, along with other bow building items. I've got his shave horse plans and they really worked them over to make sure they was as user friendly as possible. I'll see if I can track down where you found your bow.
Patrick
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JW, was that David Mead. If so I had a lengthy conversation with him at the classic last year. Great guy too. He also has plans for a portable shave horse that usually use a folding chair to sit on. Pretty cool stuff, along with other bow building items. I've got his shave horse plans and they really worked them over to make sure they was as user friendly as possible. I'll see if I can track down where you found your bow.
Patrick
Portable shave horse? Even better!
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Yeah, I'll see if I can find the plans are email them to you. It's kinda innovative. And different, I'm going to try and make one just because. I used his at the classic and it works out nicely.
Patrick
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He had a little trouble focusing wgen the deer showed up, laughed my butt off
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He had a little trouble focusing wgen the deer showed up, laughed my butt off
I've never had that problem. Noooo...never!
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Very interesting. looks like the inside of the bamboo faces the belly. I wanna make bows like that..
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Shouldn't the outside of the bamboo face the belly?
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They wanted to come to the Classic this year but I am out of room and had to say no, I seen it also in PA , first time I had heard of them except when they called. Good luck with it JW. ;)
Pappy
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JW, better get to work on that thumb ring, unless you plan on shooting it wrong ya heathen ;)
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JW, better get to work on that thumb ring, unless you plan on shooting it wrong ya heathen ;)
Wrong is how us heathens do it!
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Heathen, huh? I been called worse.
By my mother.
And she meant it.
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Those bows intrigued me also. But im to cheap to buy the kit so I just ordered the book.
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Heathen, huh? I been called worse.
By my mother.
And she meant it.
In my circles heathen is a compliment, but I went with the joke, lol.
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I talked to Dave on the phone the other day for quite some time. He is a super nice guy and I think he has come up with some different when it comes to his bows. That's all I'm going to say, I'll let the book and JW's new bow speak for themselves.
Patrick
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What a kick in the pants!
This kit took me a whopping 3+ hours to assemble and have shooting*. Plenty of crude toolmarks that anyone posting in here can handle in their sleep, but the fitting of the 5 pieces was a cakewalk. I shot it a little that first day and broke two of the three arrows! Ha! One was a cedar arrow and anyone that knows me knows my poor opinion of the suitability of Port Orford cedar for arrows. But one was a Sitka spruce shaft that was maybe a little to heavy a spine and it was wagging the dog pretty hard coming off the bow. I was standing pretty close to the target and the whipsaw effect cause the arrow to snap on impact.
I gotta get off my duff and find my chronograph. I really wanna find out what this sucker is doing for performance! But right now, I would not worry about carrying this bow for any big game in North America, it's a shooter!
*And I took a lot of time setting up lighting and cameras. I photodocumented and shot video of much of it. If I just went at it, this would take less than 2 hours total!
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I see no picture of a bow JW .....so this is all jibberish in my opinion! >:D
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Watch upcoming issues of a certain little magazine some of us like to read in our spare time!
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Really!!!! Well look at you!! Can't wait to see it!
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Really!!!! Well look at you!! Can't wait to see it!
Well, that is to say, I hope they will publish what I am sending to them.
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I hope they print it as well JW, some new blood would be refreshing
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Thats cool JW! I knew you would love it! I watched the video of Dave shooting you're bow. He was hitting numbers from 222 to 190fps. He even broke an arrow that he was shooting as well.
Do you think we could get a sneak peek from your photo shoot JW?
Patrick
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No pictures?! Hey, what gives? You're usually the advocate for those of us who can't read and need pictures! Seriously though, you've got me pretty interested.
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Hey guys, this is Dave..the guy that makes these bows. This is my first time on a forum and hopefully I didn't mess up on my first time posting. I saw this and wanted to Thank everyone for the interest, support, and kind words. I really appreciate it. Special Thanks to Patrick and Mr Halverson. Patrick I met you at the last Classic and hope to see you again soon. Thank you for your kind words. And JW as they call you, we are connected now through your bow. I hope to meet you some day soon as well. I really like your writing style (brutally honest yet hilarious) and i am honored to have made you a bow and would be very honored if infact you are putting together an article. Very cool! From what I have seen/read this forum is an amazing source of info and I hope maybe one day I can add to that. I wish I joined sooner, better late than never!
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Welcome to the site Dave, you will find that we are just a big 'ol family here, some good some grumpy and even that crazy uncle that thknks he knows everything😜 I've talked with jw about your bow a bit and he is impressed, post away!
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Thanks bubby!
Sounds great..a lot like my fam actually. . I should fit in just fine. I look forward to it.
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Welcome to the Forum Dave. I'd read that page on your bows in PA and will be looking forward to JW's article as well.
You should think about coming to Mojam to show your wares. Plus it is sort of a "right of passage" here... ;)
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This is really puzzling. The reviews and claims about this bow are pretty good, but I can't see why it's so special. I've done something similar several times, with three species of bamboo, and while they shot fine and were fun and easy to make, they weren't stand-out bows, especially. Certainly not that fast. Mine were longer, I think the shortest was 56", but the profile was much the same. i even did things to manage tip weight, like use heat bend rattan in the siyahs.
I wonder if he has some special method of treating the bamboo?
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This is really puzzling. The reviews and claims about this bow are pretty good, but I can't see why it's so special. I've done something similar several times, with three species of bamboo, and while they shot fine and were fun and easy to make, they weren't stand-out bows, especially. Certainly not that fast. Mine were longer, I think the shortest was 56", but the profile was much the same. i even did things to manage tip weight, like use heat bend rattan in the siyahs.
I wonder if he has some special method of treating the bamboo?
What is to puzzle? Have you seen the You Tube videos of his arrow speeds?
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This is really puzzling. The reviews and claims about this bow are pretty good, but I can't see why it's so special. I've done something similar several times, with three species of bamboo, and while they shot fine and were fun and easy to make, they weren't stand-out bows, especially. Certainly not that fast. Mine were longer, I think the shortest was 56", but the profile was much the same. i even did things to manage tip weight, like use heat bend rattan in the siyahs.
I wonder if he has some special method of treating the bamboo?
What is to puzzle? Have you seen the You Tube videos of his arrow speeds?
That's part of the puzzle. Big companies put a lot of effort into making arrows go 200 fps so a simple bamboo slat doing what requires foam cores and carbon etc. will always make people go ???
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This is really puzzling. The reviews and claims about this bow are pretty good, but I can't see why it's so special. I've done something similar several times, with three species of bamboo, and while they shot fine and were fun and easy to make, they weren't stand-out bows, especially. Certainly not that fast. Mine were longer, I think the shortest was 56", but the profile was much the same. i even did things to manage tip weight, like use heat bend rattan in the siyahs.
I wonder if he has some special method of treating the bamboo?
What is to puzzle? Have you seen the You Tube videos of his arrow speeds?
That's part of the puzzle. Big companies put a lot of effort into making arrows go 200 fps so a simple bamboo slat doing what requires foam cores and carbon etc. will always make people go ???
Especially when it cost me all of $118 - SHIPPED!
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You have my attention JW. Which is a little frustrating since I now know that you're intending to make me wait for the published story to get the full skinny on it. >:( Once again....you're a dirty rotten tease! I suppose I can be patient.....for a little while anyway. Josh
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You have my attention JW. Which is a little frustrating since I now know that you're intending to make me wait for the published story to get the full skinny on it. >:( Once again....you're a dirty rotten tease! I suppose I can be patient.....for a little while anyway. Josh
Just because you bought me breakfast doesn't mean you are gonna get any special treatment, big fella.
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You have my attention JW. Which is a little frustrating since I now know that you're intending to make me wait for the published story to get the full skinny on it. >:( Once again....you're a dirty rotten tease! I suppose I can be patient.....for a little while anyway. Josh
Just because you bought me breakfast doesn't mean you are gonna get any special treatment, big fella.
I wouldn't expect any! I truly am curious though....Josh
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First off, Dave it's good to see you here on pa! Welcome and feel free to post away!
I don't want to give away any of Daves secrets so he will have to do that himself.
I'm with Josh though I'm curious to see the article in PA.
Patrick
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You have my attention JW. Which is a little frustrating since I now know that you're intending to make me wait for the published story to get the full skinny on it. >:( Once again....you're a dirty rotten tease! I suppose I can be patient.....for a little while anyway. Josh
Just because you bought me breakfast doesn't mean you are gonna get any special treatment, big fella.
I guess he ain't easy or cheap... ;)
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You have my attention JW. Which is a little frustrating since I now know that you're intending to make me wait for the published story to get the full skinny on it. >:( Once again....you're a dirty rotten tease! I suppose I can be patient.....for a little while anyway. Josh
Just because you bought me breakfast doesn't mean you are gonna get any special treatment, big fella.
I guess he ain't easy or cheap... ;)
Wow, you really don't know me at all do you?
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Bamboo slats do not shoot at 200 fps with 10gpp.....
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Just Talked to Dave over there to find out if his bow could take 29 in draw & he is making the kit limbs longer for me let you know when I get it put together & through the crony real nice down to earth guy he will sell lots of these bows !
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Hmmmm... The book is cheap at twice the price! ...if it contains the 'special treatment' secrets for the bamboo lams, it would be of interest for that alone! ;) ::) ??? -OneBow
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so has anyone seen the bow shoot 200 fps with 10 app arrow ,,that one is difficult for me to believe,, unless one of you guys has seen it,,, ok I just watched some of the videos,, and the bow seems impressive and fast,,,but I didn't see it shoot 200 fps with a 10 app arrow,, its hard to tell if the bow is being drawn to a specific draw,, and it may be,, and it may be shooting 200 fps,, its just hard to tell from the video,,, I saw one video where the chrono was reading 190's,, anyway,, I guess I have my doubts about it,, I will just wait to see if one of you guys gets 200fps before I make a judgment,, :) very interesting bow,,something to be learned there for sure,,
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One thing about Chrono's, and it came up when I shot my bow is that the lighting will effect the accuracy of some of them. That's why I called Steve Gardner about the readings.
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He had a video with the chroni inside consistently shot mid 180's at 26" ans oncw 225 and he said i don't think i by that one.
Dude seems like an honest guy and i think he hit in the 190's a few times too
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I'm not doubting his honesty, but I know it is going to start.
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I know Mullet, people are still saying outlaws junk osage would make a bow lol
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I have the same chrony as Dave does with the LED light hood when I get my kit put together & arrows tuned , tuned arrows are a must for good reading, I will do a side by side comparison with a custom fg bow of knowen speed & post it , I would be very happy whith 190 fps @10GPP , See what you started JW your a evil man 🏹😃
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I like how there are posts that say it isn't possible. Innovation is out there, and new ways of doing things as well. Just because it has always been done a certain way, doesn't mean there isn't a new, better way of doing them.
I'm curious how one of those would do here in Utah. They even advise against buying bamboo flooring, as the fluctuation of humidity doesn't make it a good product.
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And, again, I am not going to go off half cocked and adamantly declare that these speeds are not possible, or that he guy is lying. I don't know him.
I just raked some of the same ground pretty thoroughly and couldn't do it, and I can't SEE anything too special about the design or the materials. So, I want to know HOW. I wanna know more. I wanna know what I'm missing.
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Common knowledge once said kiln dried wood was weak and brittle, no bow could be made from a board.
The masters we all acknowledge as starting the primitive archery movement in the early 20th century all said hickory was crap.
Even recently, I have heard folks say wide bows are slow bows.
Fact is, for all we think we know our beans today, our best efforts have not met the distances the Turks shot in the past. Lots of old rules are being revised every day as we learn and relearn. I am not as quick to throw out the word "impossible" ever since it became clear to me that often that word is based more on opinion than on fact.
That being said, I am going to contact the local bow shop (the real one that does nothing but bows, not the big outdoors box store that employs clerks that can't even read the product descriptions on the packaging) to see if they can help me get someone with a real 28 inch draw to throw a few arrows thru their chronograph. I will shoot video and see what they can come for numbers.
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I have been giving this alot of consideration, I am open minded,, JW sounds like a good plan,, lots of variables involved, just like hickory shooting the best in the desert,, moisture content could sure effect cast on all wood bow for sure,, when I look at the post Badger made,, and some of the other guys,, I feel like the 200 fps with a wood bow,, is a slightly grey area,, that is not so defined,,,but will be interesting to see what happens,, my but feeling is some of the bows may come close to the 200 with 28 draw and 10 app but not really reach or exceed it,, and I don't care if I am wrong,, cause I will learn something new for sure,, :) funny thing is , I won't give up my slow dog osage to shoot a bamboo bow,, just like I won't give up my 68 f 150,,,
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Send it to Steve Gardner, JW and let him shoot it with the release machine.
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I will pay the shipping if you want to send to Steve
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I don't think my bow was the one David had shot the super fast arrows through. Maybe he will be interested in sending that particular one to Steve. Mr. Gardner has dedicated himself to chasing the gods of speed/distance, can't think of anyone I would rather have do an evaluation of a bow!
Besides, I am re-engineering the grip section of mine. Looking for a more comfortable arrangement! I can't believe it, I am actually shooting a bow again. I haven't had an interest in throwing arrows downrange in years. LOL, what is next? Am I actually going to get an archery tag? (Hmmm, 48" nock to nock, fast arrows, and western South Dakota antelope from behind a decoy)
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I'm curious how one of those would do here in Utah. They even advise against buying bamboo flooring, as the fluctuation of humidity doesn't make it a good product.
Interesting point you bring up.I notice,that Bamboo backings and shafts tend to check badly,in Nevada as well.
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Bubby, Paul, and Patrick Thanks for the welcome!
PaulN/KS- I am teaching a bow making class that weekend in Berea KY otherwise I would be going to Mojam. I still might make the IBO in TN if my class doesn't fill one of the days. Will have to be a last minute call.
Okay so on to my speed claims...Yes I had the same reaction when I first witnessed the speed from my bows. I thought at first something broke open in my shop and fumes were getting out causing me to be delirious. .. so I went to the Chrono to prove to myself.
I destroyed almost every arrow I had, broke several siyahs,(string split them in half), broke strings, cracked handles, and continued to rebuild those bows and build more to test.. during different weather conditions etc. Had to reconfigure everything I had to accept the power of these bows.. So unless my chrono's (more than 1) are on crack, my speeds are legit. And some are faster than seen on my videos because I can't consistently shoot cleanly at 28". Plus most of my test were done with somewhat heavy stretchy string material. Its all off the hand, finger release and nothing special about my arrows. Only recently I have used linen thread to make my bow strings. Wow that is good stuff! If you can find it!
As you can see in my videos I shoot numerous times to try and get some kind of consistency and average. .the videos are just clips of probably an hours worth of chrono testing or more. Every time I shoot over the chrono it's at least an hour. I try to just send a few over it, but my inner competitiveness gets the best of me every time.
I have tested and tested and tested the bows before I ever even thought of selling them as speedsters. If any of you live close to me I would like to extend an offer to anyone interested to come and shoot my bows over my (or your) chrono at my place. Serious offer from an honest guy to someone that wants to come and shoot/draw/release my bows and arrows over a Chrono. Bring your best bow and we can talk and exchange ideas, etc. Honestly I don't really care to prove it. I wasn't chasing that 200fps with 10gpp. I am after the most efficient design with natural materials. And I'm still at it. Probably wont be satisfied until I hit 300 fps. Yes we will see what happens in Utah. .I'm just as curious as you all. In extreme humidity it will be slower of course and in extreme dry climate.. it should draw heavier..Who knows maybe my bow will blow up! Haha
I know Pappy didnt have room but I was going to squeeze in on someones table..so I would have been at TN classic if I didn't have a death in the family. Had to make a last minute trip to Fla. Family comes first.
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Dmead,,thanks so much for your patience and taking time to reply,, just to clarify,, do you have bows that will shoot 200fps with 10 gpp at 28 inches of draw,, is that the norm for your bows,, or are the ones that shoot that special,, thanks again for your info and replies,, B
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Brad
To answer your question..probably. if I get around to it I will let you know. Who cares anyway? What is your fascination with the 10gpp? Yes some of my bows will shoot over 200fps. Johns bow did. He has made some changes so not sure about now..
200fps with 10gpp.. I don't know. I don't think I ever claimed 200fps with 10gpp. If I did somewhere please point it out for me. Im more interested in distance these days anyway. Speed comes as a byproduct.
To answer the other question my bows are fast, very fast for what they are..And they can be made to fold as a takedown, they are tiny and powerful...oh yeah and cheap. So what else do you want? I've posted many videos of me chrono testing my bows with great speeds for what they are I don't understand the fixation. I came on here to share my knowledge and learn from others as well. To support primitive archer and the art of bow making. Do you have a bow that shoots 200fps?
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Just for the record, the mods I made were mainly cosmetic. I sanded out toolmarks, mostly. For that matter, the sanding done on the siyahs likely added a bit of speed because it would have removed some weight.
What weight arrows were you shooting from my bow when you scored the high speeds. David?
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450gr and a 400gr as stated in my video I made when testing your bow. The 400gr arrow broke when linen string was used.
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The whole 200 fps with hunting weight arrows was brought up by patm and not Dave, somewhere along it morphed into 10grns it almost seems like some of ya are like a dog with a bone, heck they are cheap enough order one and see what ya get, jmo
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The whole 200 fps with hunting weight arrows was brought up by patm and not Dave, somewhere along it morphed into 10grns it almost seems like some of ya are like a dog with a bone, heck they are cheap enough order one and see what ya get, jmo
Indeed, Buy one or don't, but don't question the mans integrity.
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Thanks gentlemen. I am not on here solely to sell my bows, I hope you all realize that. I mean there are other business-owner/bowyers on here am I right? And they can just chat amongst you all without being salesman? Or it turning into an interrogation! Haha
While I do appreciate the support by telling people to buy one of my bows...i didn't want my first post to turn into an ad. I am truly hoping to be on to help others, and have others help me. Yes I have something special that is my secret. What bowyer doesn’t have secrets?
And yes I never claimed 200 fps with 10gpp..again not my goal in life.
I shoot whatever the finished weight of most of my hunting arrows are which is typically between 400-525gr give or take. The only arrows I pay attention to weight on is my flight arrows.
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The whole 200 fps with hunting weight arrows was brought up by patm and not Dave, somewhere along it morphed into 10grns it almost seems like some of ya are like a dog with a bone, heck they are cheap enough order one and see what ya get, jmo
I was just mentioning what seemed to be claimed.
The 10gpp and 200 fps is the Holy Grail of bows in general never mind self material.
So when it seemed like this might have been casually surpassed by some bamboo slats naturally it piques ones interest.
Now it does seem more like a one off shot and the arrows are less than 100 gpp which brings things back to the more reasonable 180ish.