Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stick Bender on May 22, 2016, 11:19:50 am
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Well I finished up three hunting bows over winter & spring with little time over summer months I would like to spend my time making strings & hunting arrows & shooting wanted to try FF string but don't know much about it ,do you make it the same as B50 or any advice would be appreciated ?
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You can make it the same way just with less strands.
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I use d-97 and up to 65# use 10 strands and add a few 8 in pcs to pad the nocks on selfnocks
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what OO and bubby said.............
DBar
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I prefer FF over B-50 for any bow over 40# or so. The lack of stretch is just great, makes stringing so much easier. One thing I've noticed though is that FF strings seem to get mauled more by the use of a timber hitch, and it slips a bit more too. I usually make loops in both ends with FF, but if I don't I make the timber hitch with at least 3 rotations.
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I prefer FF over B-50 for any bow over 40# or so. The lack of stretch is just great, makes stringing so much easier. One thing I've noticed though is that FF strings seem to get mauled more by the use of a timber hitch, and it slips a bit more too. I usually make loops in both ends with FF, but if I don't I make the timber hitch with at least 3 rotations.
...No way you can actually notice the stretch just when stringing? So a Dacron string is significantly shorter than a FF string for a given bow with the same draw length? I don't really believe it... though I only have the same length string both Dacron and FF for a 50" or so endless string for a 45-50# short bow.
You sure you're not using nylon? :p
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loon twist up a b50 string and a ff string, now string it with the ff and check the brace in 2 min. Now do the same with the b50, untill it is well stritched you can see it stretch and will either have to brace it real hi to get your brace at first or twist it up several times till it stops. You also don't get wrist slap with ff like you do with b50 because ff don't stretch
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loon twist up a b50 string and a ff string, now string it with the ff and check the brace in 2 min. Now do the same with the b50, untill it is well stritched you can see it stretch and will either have to brace it real hi to get your brace at first or twist it up several times till it stops. You also don't get wrist slap with ff like you do with b50 because ff don't stretch
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B-50 is garbage compared to any of the ff materials.... i had to say it. Try ff and you will never go back, i promise you. If you don't think b-50 stretches than you've never tried others
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yeah, it was pre-stretched...
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Paulsemp +1 :)
Loon, that is exactly what I mean. I may not be doing it right, but I've tried everything I can think of to "pre stretch" B-50 strings to get the stretch done with, including an imaginative use of time, body weight and cars. But some stretch always remains. Even my ancient B-50 tiller strings "curl up", and they've been through a lot! FF is a completely different animal. It may stretch a little the first couple times you string your bow with it, but from then on it's like you're stringing your bow with steel wire – no stretch whatsoever! If you're making war bows, this quality is almost indispensable.
Another thing I'd like to point out with FF. It's substantially more expensive per 1/4 pound than B-50 (4 times more expensive or so?). But because FF is lighter per length, and so much stronger so you don't use as many threads per string, the number of strings you actually get from one 1/4 pound roll is far greater than for a roll of B-50. That's my experience anyway.
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+1 Frodolf & bubby.Been shooting FF for years and shot B50 before too.Frodolf is exactly right about it being a little more slick in a timber hitch.I use a FF string for a long string tillering.It's done dozens and dozens of bows.
Stickbender....FF plus of 9 strands 3 ply or 10 of 2 ply will serve your bows there.From 3 Rivers is my source for string.You've got a chronograph bud.Shoot through there with the same arrow and different strings.See what ya get once.Flight bow shooters will go even less strands yet.
On bows with extreme amount of reflex like horn bows etc. B50 might be the better choice though.Tips could bust.
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Ok thanks guys I appreciate it I picked up a roll from 3 R FF Plus its kinda a funky color construction green but dont think the dear & pigs will mind got it about half price on clise out so I will try to get some made up before I tune out my arrows & chrony with B50 & then FF & post & thanks Ed I will try the 2 ply 10 Im hoping to lower the brace & shoot heaver arrows out of the cherokee war bow for pigs with out lossing to much speed
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I've never used anything but FF so I can't speak to the difference but I had a lot of slippage(I won't call it stretch) with FF and Flemish twist. I used a Flemish loop on one end and a timber hitch on tother. The string would slowly get longer. Every 2 or 3 hundred shots I had to retie the hitch. I was using Gordon's double wrap and 4 loops. I finally decided I would use a loop on both ends. That opened another can of worms getting the string the right length. Finally got the length right and after a couple or three hundred shot my brace height started to go down. Somehow the loops were slipping. I didn't want to use an endless string as they somehow strike me as less primitive or something ::) ::) Anyway I finally went to the dark side and made an endless string. I no longer have string issues.
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ok,, I put super glue on the timber hitch, and tie a knot behind it as well,, that seems to work pretty good,,
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I only use ff now. It does stretch a little bit for the first little while, then it is good. I leave my glass recurve strung all the time, and after a month it dropped about 1/2" in brace. I make my flemish loops with lots of weave, they never slip. I do a double loop, no timber hitch. Takes a bit of fooling around to come up with a system for accurate string length. No need to make an endless loop!
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I've got a 2" nail in the wall filled with my attempts at getting the length right on double loop Flemish twists. As for slipping I twisted as tight as I could and used 8 or 9" tails(everyone says 6" is enough) and still my loops get bigger. I'm assuming that if the loops get bigger something is slipping. Don't know what I'm doing wrong. maybe my bows are so good that I have really high brace tension? Nah, that can't be it ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm doing something wrong.Next time we get together we can go over it.
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You bet. I will bring my jig up and we can go over it. And get my clamp lol!
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I made an adjustable stretching jig for my strings. I crank down on them enough to squeeze all the excess wax out of it. When I put a string on a bow for the first time it never moves.
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As for how I make double loops, I follow clay Hayes' example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfyPOikbBvA
It really works well, and pretty fast once you get the hang of it. It's easy to undo if the string turns out too long or short, or if the bow breaks or something and you'd like to fit the string to another bow.
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Good video.I do mine a little different but end up the same thing.You can just twist the string tighter to shorten or lengthen it too.
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I've watched almost all the vids. Obviously I'm doing something wrong. As far as getting the length right, most vids show how to do one loop and then just say, "Do the other end the same."
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if FF is reverse twisted and then served, would a knot like this hold?
(even better if it holds without serving :p)
(https://i.imgur.com/eyZkUJL.jpg)
I made a D-10 flemish on both ends with turkish double loops, it might've slipped a bit... might continue slipping
Nice to see the way he does the 2nd flemish loop, I was having a lot of trouble with that, had to not twist the "main string" so much..
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I don't know about that type knot for fast flight.That stuff is slick.Doing the second loop loon can confuse some in how to do that if you don't do it very often.Better to see first hand over someones' shoulder but here goes.
When the second loops' ends are matched into main string and your flemish twisting is going you have to untwist the lengths or plys of the main string a bit as you progress.Keeping them parallel.Not so much as to undo your first loop at all but just the main string itself.When you've twisted your ends into main string completely then make sure your main length of string is parallel before pulling on both loops to stretch it.If not your twisting will undo themselves.It's different than the video and hope I did'nt confuse you but it works.Then to shorten the string to what I want i just twist it till it's the right length.
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A properly tied B-50 string will not stretch excessively. Most put way too many twists in it and then, of course, it will stretch a lot. Jawge
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yeah, the thing is if I twisted the plies of the 'main string' too much then I couldn't take the twist out of the sections when twisting in the second loop
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I wonder if I put a serving on the last 8 in. Of the botom of the string if that would help lock in the double hitch ?
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George may be right I hav'nt shot B50 for such a long time,but I remember when I switched to FF the difference in stretch and it was significant.
These strings are'nt that terribly tough to do you have to keep trying or at a bow gathering have someone show ya or what I did was call a friend on the phone..... lol.
The timber hitch on FF most times I'll loop it up to 5 times to get it to keep from slipping when using it as a long string.Keeping it waxed good helps too.
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Yes twisting up to shorten will cause any string to stretch, you want as few twist as possible, I use about 3 twist per inch, if it is to long I redo instead of twisting it shorter, I use FF most of the time but as Jawges said a well made B50 with very few twist will preform very good and not stretch much after the first shooting. When you twist them up with lots of twist it is like a coil spring. I see lots do that, it hurts performance of the bow and seems to never stop stretching. :)
Pappy