Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Pat B on May 23, 2016, 12:38:39 pm
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On Nova or Nature on PBS, Tuesday evening is a program about Coy Wolves. I think they are what our East Coast coyotes are, a hybrid of coyotes, red or timber wolves and domestic dogs. Should be pretty interesting.
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I'll definitely watch for that.
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Kind of makes you wonder about the black coyote at Cade's place with the white spot on it's chest.
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I saw a solid black coyote at my old club in GA. He may also had white on him but I never saw it. They also bred with domestic dogs(coy dogs) so that could be where the coloration came from. Look up Carolina Dog. They are native and indigenous to the Southeast US and also bred with coyotes, wolves, etc.
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There is some sort of Coy-Dog in Bankhead Forest.
Not as long legged as a Coyote but a good deal stronger built.
They have a shorter snout and a wider jaw than a Coyote.
Their tails are more bushie that a Coyote but they still carry them straight out the back.
First reports of them came in about 15 years ago. Just after the wild hog took over Bankhead Forest.
Hummm, Makes one wonder if those hogs are their primary pray....
I have seen two. One dead one alive.
David
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I have see coy wolves in northern Alabama several times. The ones I saw were a good bit bigger that a standard coyote, had a coyote face but the coloration of a German Shepard with a lot of black on the back.
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Year before I moved here a cousin on the next farm over. Shot a coal black yote but was bigger with way more hair. I looked him over good he did'nt look like a sherperd colored tote we see around here.
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Seen a couple killed around that had crossed with border collies. White paws, white spot on the chest.
The guy that farms my ground says there used to be a bunch that had probably crossed with his black lab..
I got the program dvr'd. Sounds interesting. Thx.
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Muts will be muts :D
Thanks for the heads up on the show.
Zuma
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Kind of makes you wonder about the black coyote at Cade's place with the white spot on it's chest.
That is where you place your bullet! ;) ;)
Wayne
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there are several good books on them...I believe the coyotes in MI are more wolf then coyote. There have been quite a few studies and I know a lot of the universities in Canada are doing dna testing and the results are quite interesting. I sent in two skulls, haven't received any results just a thank you letter.
I was obessed with chasing a black coyote for 3 years (hence my name) never got her, though. She educated and drove me crazy beyond belief - knew every possible way to dodge, uncover and spring traps, avoid snares and always manage to be just out of range when calling. Her mates and offspring not so much. ;D
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Kind of makes you wonder about the black coyote at Cade's place with the white spot on it's chest.
That is where you place your bullet! ;) ;)
Wayne
Bummer of a birthmark... ;)
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I don't have TV :D. Maybe I can search the net and find it. Love to watch that one.
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Mark that the black coloration in American wolves is also the result of introgression (a fancy word for crossing) with domesticated black dogs that the first Americans took with them when they crossed the Bering strait.
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Fred, Google "Coy wolf". Lots of info and at least one video from PBS about them.
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Thanks Pat, I've watched some already but thought this new one would also be worth viewing.
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Seen the show.You guys on the east coast have always had a native wolf thought to be extinct called the red wolf right?I'd like to hear some weights on these critters.We've got what we call coyotes here too.Some big males weigh well over 50 pounds.The hair on them is'nt as silky as the western coyotes which are actually smaller.
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I think it's Wednesday night. ;D :-[
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Ed, they are actually breeding Family groups on St. Vincent Island in Florida and sending them to SC.
We've seen some 'yotes down here that looked closer to being a German Shepperd than the scaggly, coyotes we normally see.
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Lol :laugh:
It's funny in some ways and is totally stupid in others.
There are obviously a whole bunch of idiots getting paid to
( tax money) (Who else could afford this nonsense.)
running around reintroducing any and all kinds of plants
and creatures just about any where they want.
I am totally delighted that here where I live it's open season
on coyote's with a bounty to boot. I hope someone reintroduces
a freakin Grizzly into their backyards.
Zuma
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Missed recording the show about the wolves, I'm sure it will be on again soon. Did catch the one about teotihuacan's lost kings. Pretty cool, they did a part about obsidian , flint napping etc. I found it interesting.
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I watched that one too, Mounter.
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The DNR has pulled some real zingers here in Iowa over the years introducing things into the country side.Flora and Fauna both.It's a whole other gripe thread to discuss.....lol.
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The DNR didn't introduce the coy wolves, they were a natural selection. After most of the wolves were killed in the northeast the western coyotes moved east into the vacuum and mated with the remaining wolves producing coy wolves.
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Missed it, but then caught a rerun of it last night. Unfortunately there is a lot of bad information given in that show. I don't know why the narrator kept referring to eastern coyotes and coy wolves as if they are the same thing. Any one that watched the show no doubt noticed the wildlife biologists didn't make the same mistake. There is one relatively small area of Canada where a subspecies of Canus lupus (gray wolves) has hybridized with coyotes to create a "coy wolf", but it is just one little pocket. The eastern coyote, genetically, is just a coyote. As coyotes moved out of the desert southwest they have both adapted (changed their behavior) and evolved (changed genetically) in order to deal with colder, wetter weather and larger prey, but not so much as to become a new species. Further, they did not need to breed with wolves to make these changes because, sharing a common ancestor, they already have "wolf genes", so to speak, it's just a matter of how the environment dictates those genes be expressed. It's kind of like if you send 3 guys out to each live alone in the woods and give each one an axe. If you check back in a few years, each will likely be living in a cabin type shelter of some kind because each needed to solve the same problem using the same tools.
Meanwhile the influence of Canis niger (the red wolf) is unknown. They readily hybridize with coyotes, and their population is very small. So far no one has been able to sort out, genetically, how much of what is seen in red wolves is the original genes of the species versus what has been added in recent centuries by mixing with the highly expansive coyote population. As it is, red wolves are nature's original "coy wolf", occupying the niche between coyotes and gray wolves. Or to look at it another way, the eastern coyote is essentially a reinvention of the red wolf.
Keith
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The theory in SC about the coyotes that have exploded here was an introduction by fox hunters that brought them in across the big muddy. For what reason, I don't know. Anyway, they seem to be getting bigger at our place. When you see them, you know it is a yote but when you shoot them and get a good look they look different somehow. We do have some color phase going to black but we have not shot one of those yet. They are an apex predator in our area for sure.
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Coons, bears and squirrels cause more havoc than Wolves and Coys in an urban stetting anyway. Dam coons were eating my cat food at one time. >:D