Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Rain Bows on September 19, 2016, 04:02:58 pm
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All,
Thanks for the acceptance to the forum! I am starting this post per recommendations from numerous users of Leatherwall. I will be staring a hickory selfbow build this evening. My materials arrive today (Hawaii Time) and would like to post photos/questions along the way for guidance. I've shot for a long time now and certainly know what I like in a bow as far as specs and features, so technical info is what I'm seeking (ie tiller, how to obtain poundage, etc. I ordered The Bowyers Bible vol 1 along with my stave and tools from Raptor Archery. To start, any good advice you can pass on before I physically start building my first bow? Secondly, being that the Military currently has me in Hawaii, how much will the humidity effect my stave? Thanks. Appreciate the wealth of knowledge y'all so generously share.
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Also, with my Hickory Stave coming from Raptor Archery, will it come ready to be worked or does it still require drying time?
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If you have a kitchen scale, switch it to reading in metric (grams) and weigh the wood. Write it in pencil on the wood, wait 48 hours, weigh it again. Any change? If so, keep tracking the weight on the stave until it is pretty much done wobbling about up or down.
Hickory in Hawaii is likely to be a bit sluggish. From what I gather from secondhand information, it is rather tropical and humid in your part of the country. Hickory has an almost fiendish love of absorbing humidity and reducing it's performance. But so what. It will still make a bow and when (not if, this is the military we are talking about) you get transferred to another duty station it might be really dry and the bow will suddenly become a ballistic missile launcher.
Now, post a photo of the stave when you can and we will commence to providing you all kinds of contradictory instructions and opinions, sure to make you feel like you are back in boot camp and have done something epic stupid.
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Trust us. You will produce a bow.
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Appreciate it. I'll try and get some photos of my stave up tonight.
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Just keep it in AC while you are working on it and when not shooting it.
My site has info.
Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
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Good to see ya on this forum too!
You can't go wrong with advice from George!
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Wish I had AC in my garage... it gets like a coal mine in there sometimes
And that's where I have my red oak board :\ At least it's fall..
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(http://s10.postimg.org/mzm0m4pkp/1ax5mb.jpg)
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If so, keep tracking the weight on the stave until it is pretty much done wobbling about up or down.
If you are on the wet side of the island, it might start gaining weight
or on the dry side, loosing weight
try to monitor for weight loss in an envrionment that you know has a low RH.
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hickory is a sponge on moisture, very hydroscoptic..reduce to floor till, get to 12 %... let sit inside for a month should do it..everytime you work it bring it back inside..never leave it outside too long...after finished seal immediately..it will make an excellent bow if treated properly....gut
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I had a hickory bow I ruffed out earlier in the year left it 1 in. Thick brought it inside in the a/c @53% humidity it didn't stop losing weight for almost 4 months don't have a moister gauge for measuring wood but I'm building a simple drying box with a electric blanket sort of a drying tent & see if I can get it a little drier by weight, probably if I had floor tillered could have got away with 2 months ,I have made a hickory bow with only 1 month of drying after floor tiller but think it was still a little green hickory can hold on to moisture in my opinion but once dry it's a great wood for bows & it's a forgiving wood for first time builder I think you will be happy with your hickory bow when your done.
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could be a longer dry time for sure..its a bear to get it down to 12%..I put mine in closet that has a heat vent..haha...gut
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Haven't gotten a moisture meter yet. Trying to post photos from my phone but it keeps saying they are too large. Got half of my staves bark stripped off tonight down to the white wood. It looks great! Very straight. Will keep trying to get photos up
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You can get a cheap digital kitchen scale for as little as $20. It weighs the entire stave all at once. Moisture meters only read the moisture content as deep as you push the probes....basically driving nails into the wood. The scale can also be used in the kitchen, or weighing arrows, or even weighing packages so you can estimate postage. A moisture meter only does one thing, and not that very good of a job, in my opinion. I have one, don't know where it is, can't be bothered to even go looking for it.
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I've weighed my Stave every morning and evening now for 3 Days storing it inside. Very close every time.
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I usually weigh mine every 2 weeks it seems to me the closer to dry the smaller the change do you know when the tree was cut ?
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I have no idea Stik. I called Raptor Archery where it was ordered and the told me its plenty dry enough to begin work.
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If it weighs the same in a week I would guess your good to go maybe they season them before selling
One of the hardest things for me to learn in this craft is being patient but after a couple of faliures from rushing things I got it lol ,but if your any thing like I was you want to get your first bow done but hickory is prone to taking a fair amount of set if its not dry
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In my experience, with buying a hickory stave (not from your supplier) they are dried well, but will take a bit of moisture due to hawaii's humidity. If the seller says its good to go have at it. But expect it to take up a bit of moisture.
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I keep track of the RH while I'm weighing. If it's say, 50% RH for weeks and the stave is losing weight daily, then it jumps to 70% RH your stave will stop losing weight until the RH goes back down, then it will continue to lose. I've read that you should wait until it stops losing weight for about 30% of the time it's been drying. ie if it's been drying for nine months and stops losing weight you should wait another three months. I don't have that kind of patience but I do wait a month. Once you build a stock of staves, drying becomes a non-issue. You should have enough staves so that you can't build bows faster than the wood dries. Get a dozen staves, wait as long as you can for the first one to dry. Make a bow but expect a little set. Make another, you will have less set. 1. because your wood is drier and 2. because you know a little better what you are doing. Every time you make a bow, replace the stave. I have a warm spot that I keep a half dozen staves in once they stop losing weight. There is always a nice dry stave waiting.
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If Ted Fry told you it was ready to work you can trust him. He is a good guy.
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I trust Ted! He is an excellent guy and I can't say enough about my experience with Raptor Archery! Great people, he even took the time to tell me specifically what to read in the Bowyers Bible before starting and that if I have any questions at all along the way to simply call and ask for guidance.
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well I don't want to sound like I'm going against the grain here but I've worked with hickory quite a bit and you just can't use procedures with it like you can other woods. Weighing the stave until it stops losing weight isn't going to help you unless the conditions will get you at a max 8% moisture level. If you build a hickory bow at 12% moisture, its going to take a lot of set and be a slug. I won't work a hickory stave until its at least 8% and I prefer my meter to say 6%. I can take my wood out of my drying box and it will read 8%. If I let it sit out for a day, its back up to 12%. and these are roughed out staves that are years old. You can't think of hickory in terms as other wood...its in a category by itself. Again, just my observation and opinion but you will be disappointed in the results if you don't get the wood to 8% or below and its impossible for me to do that in PA without some form of drying box and even then its tough this time of year. Example...I'm working on one now. I took it out of the drying box in my basement and the stave was literally very warm to the touch...I mean significantly warm...my moisture reader still only read 8%. If I left that bow and just weighed it like some have said, it would jump to over 12% before it stabilized in weight and that just won't work with hickory.
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What do you guys pad your bench vise with? Just a piece of leather?
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well I don't want to sound like I'm going against the grain here but I've worked with hickory quite a bit and you just can't use procedures with it like you can other woods. Weighing the stave until it stops losing weight isn't going to help you unless the conditions will get you at a max 8% moisture level. If you build a hickory bow at 12% moisture, its going to take a lot of set and be a slug. I won't work a hickory stave until its at least 8% and I prefer my meter to say 6%. I can take my wood out of my drying box and it will read 8%. If I let it sit out for a day, its back up to 12%. and these are roughed out staves that are years old. You can't think of hickory in terms as other wood...its in a category by itself. Again, just my observation and opinion but you will be disappointed in the results if you don't get the wood to 8% or below and its impossible for me to do that in PA without some form of drying box and even then its tough this time of year. Example...I'm working on one now. I took it out of the drying box in my basement and the stave was literally very warm to the touch...I mean significantly warm...my moisture reader still only read 8%. If I left that bow and just weighed it like some have said, it would jump to over 12% before it stabilized in weight and that just won't work with hickory.
So, are you saying he should chuck the stave in a suitcase and move somewhere other than Hawaii? Because, frankly, it is pretty well impossible for him to alter the local climate or to change the hydrophilic character of the hickory.
The stave is gonna do what the stave is gonna do at the RH of the local conditions. Build the bow and accept it for what it is. A huge part of the primitive archer experience is dealing with the natural and immutable properties of the given natural materials. If you can't live with those limitations, then build fiberglass bows, or better yet, buy something.
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LOL yes I believe he should move from Hawaii never to return and also make sure the suitcase has a light bulb in it to get rid of the humidity ....come on man that's not what I'm saying...I'm just giving my experience with hickory. people can do what they want...I thought that was what this forum was for...the sharing of experiences...and I shared mine. build a hickory bow and shoot it under the ocean I could care less. just wanted to give my thoughts. To each their own. Hickory gets a bad rep from a lot of people and I feel its because they treat it like other woods and all I wanted to say was hickory is a great wood for bows if you treat it right.
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I've got a number of hickory bows.Self and sinewed.I live in Iowa.I don't own a hot box.I have a dehumidifier running in the basement that keeps things at around 50% humidity.I store my bows there.I shoot them a lot both target shooting and hunting.Even early fog drizzly conditions too for hours at a time.I can honestly say I see absolutely no set or cast difference in mine.This issue comes by every now and then.I suggest to take it inside in like conditions I described before and during construction then seal it when finished.I use laquer as a finish.
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if you live in a moist climate, a heat box ,, or closet with a light bulb going would be a good idea,,
the lower moisture content will make the bow take less set,,
yes if kept in high moisture even with finish it might take some moisture on,
but if kept in side,, it shoud stay to a reasonalbe moisture content if sealed ,,
if you make the bow at 12 % it may not perform as well as you would like,,
that being said,, even a bow that follows the string a bit,, can shoot an arrow quite nicely,,
you may just have to pull a bit more weight to get the cast you like, thats my take on it,,, I dont think you have to move to get a nice shooting bow,, :) just keep it in the driest area available when you are not using it,,
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When I was using a lot of hickory, I took a aluminum dryer vent hose and hung it from the joists in the basement with a 60 watt bulb in the bottom of it. I put my bows in it when I wasn't working on them. Kept them nice and dry for tillering.
DBar
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that sounds like a good cheap way to keep um dry, I,m gonna try that one,, :)
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Update.
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Close up of taper to 1/2" at tips
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Full profile picture. Bow is 2" wide all the way down until ^" up from the tips where it tapers to 1/2". Am I on the right track here? Any advise is valued. Thanks.
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Top photo is just one of the fades that I have started on. No where near completion yet.
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How long is it? Up which point limbs are parallel? I don't understand "^" mark
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the bow is 68" long. What do you mean limbs are parallel?
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Parallel limbs as in without any (or extremely minimal) reduction in width (of the limb) along a section of the limb, giving the impression of two parallel edges when viewed from the front or back. He's asking about the specific point at which the limbs start to taper.
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Yes at what point does it begin to narrow. You said that "Bow is 2" wide all the way down until ^" up", so I asked what does ^ mean.
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6" from the tips it tapers to 1/2". Sorry for the mistype.
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Latest Updates on my bow. Please critique and advise. Thanks. This photo shows the side profile. Ive began taking wood off of the lower limbs belly for tiller. Not quite bending enough for floor tiller yet.
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Back Profile of the bow.
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Close up of the grip area.
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Starting to shape up for you looking good
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Looks good.You got a good clean partial cambium back going on there.Store your bow during construction in the house though.Not standing in a corner either.Especially not in the garage with one end of the tip onto cement.Your bow even now is losing more moisture weight even with more wood removal being done to it.Put a light fan on it.Garauntee it'll help.Even in a tube with a light bulb.It's just like drying clothes only it takes longer.
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Beadman, I have been storing the bow flat indoors after working. Just upright for photos. Roughly how this should my limbs be to start floor tiller? I've got the bottom limb ever so slightly bending but takes a lot of force. The bowyers bible said start at 3/4", and while I completely understand this is a starting point, was not even close to bending.
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How are we looking guys?
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Looking real good so far. Looks like the limb on the right maybe stiffer than the left over the whole limb
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I agree Joec123able. I'm going to shave that side down over the entire limb tonight. Once tiller is spot on, can I brace the bow right away or should I work it slowly? Already getting a bit of string follow with a very loose string pulled to 16".
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Hmm you shouldn't be getting follow already. I'd suspect the wood may still have too much moisture if it's taking on string follow from a slight bend. I wouldn't brace the bow right away. I'd keep working out the tiller slowly om the long string to reduce the weight some.
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A good pic....Actually my eye sees the right limb bending over all better than the left limb.The left limb is too stiff on the outer third or from midlimb out to tips.Bending too much from the fade.I dare bet the set your seeing is from the left limb mostly.I'd remove material from the outer third of your left limb.That will make your left limb weaker then overall possibly.Then I'd remove material from your right to get it balanced out.I would do that before putting it on the short string.If it does'nt take a tremendous amount of effort to brace it I would.Otherwise your too heavy yet.
Previous bowyers have said to weigh it to see if it has quit losing weight.I imagine by now it has.