Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Carson (CMB) on September 23, 2016, 10:21:43 pm
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I finally got to put a tag on an Elk. This is the bow that whispered this little three point bull in. I set out at the beginning of the year to make myself a wide limb, stout yew bow for the fall Elk hunt. It is 63" nock to nock. I wanted a bow that really stacked at the back end but without any set caused by drawing into the stack a bit. I started with a pair of wide billets and this is the bow that eventually emerged. I worked on the bow here and there through the year and was shooting it at our local summer bow shoots. It is still not properly finished with a handle wrap. Just a simple piece of calf skin for a strike plate. Mammoth Ivory overlays. The double hollow limb idea just came about when I decided to do a hollow limb, but then had so much width to hollow out and no gouges that wide.
I shot the Bull elk front on at 20 yards. It was the fourth and last broadhead arrow in my quiver. He jumped the string on the first three shots, and managed to wheel out of the way of the arrow the first, second...and third arrows, but the fourth time he came into my cow calls, he came a step further and gave me a front on shot. This time he froze and the arrow hit its mark. He went 40 yards and piled up.
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Elk%20Hunt_zpsdga3iw6e.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Elk%20Hunt_zpsdga3iw6e.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_belly%20and%20handle_zpsznt8evyx.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_belly%20and%20handle_zpsznt8evyx.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Elk%20Hunting_zpszxbrghew.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Elk%20Hunting_zpszxbrghew.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Old%20and%20new_zpsrt5bolkc.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Old%20and%20new_zpsrt5bolkc.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_wide%20limb_zpsp1obximv.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_wide%20limb_zpsp1obximv.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Handle_zpskxshquwp.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Handle_zpskxshquwp.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_splice%20billets_zpstbt2w8pb.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_splice%20billets_zpstbt2w8pb.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_varnsih%20finish_zpspaumbwjp.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_varnsih%20finish_zpspaumbwjp.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Tip%20finished_zpssvmhx15y.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Tip%20finished_zpssvmhx15y.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_back%20wavy_zps5gamqyqi.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_back%20wavy_zps5gamqyqi.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_belly%20of%20tip_zpszdiou3o2.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_belly%20of%20tip_zpszdiou3o2.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_belly%20view_zpsvlctvq8h.jpg)[/URL
[URL=http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_tip%20work_zpsyw7jlg6q.jpg.html](http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_tip%20work_zpsyw7jlg6q.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_belly%20view_zpsvlctvq8h.jpg.html)]
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_tip%20overlay_zpsfhonm86n.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_tip%20overlay_zpsfhonm86n.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Splice_zpsu7i8bext.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_Splice_zpsu7i8bext.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_zpsfwlf1xqx.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_zpsfwlf1xqx.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_full%20draw_zpstjfkd3ez.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Echo%20Archery_Yew%20Flatbow_Hollow%20LImb_Carson%20Brown_Wood%20Bow_full%20draw_zpstjfkd3ez.jpg.html)
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Beauty and effectiveness. What more could you want. Very nice and interesting bow, Carson and congratulations for the elk.
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Congratulations Carson on your elk!!!.Lot of meat there.Exciting hunt!!!!You must have hit the juggler heh?????Unique design of your bow too.I like it.
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Congrats Carson. That downed bull elk is a beautiful sight, what a rush that must have been for you. Awfully cool looking bow too, never seen one hollowed out in that manner, it sure did do a number on that elk. :)
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Thanks for setting the bar just a bit higher....once again. Back to the workshop. Lol
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That's pretty darn fancy. How the hell do you tiller a bow like that?
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Now Carson....lol.If every deer gave me 4 shots I'd be in heaven.....lol.
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Thats really impressive! Great job!
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First class bow and steaks. your treatment of the belly is remniscient of some Native American bow pics I have seen.
do you feel that the "keel" on the belly contributes to performance?
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That is a work of art! Just wanna run my hands over it! Cheers- Brendan
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What sorcery is this!? Gorgeous...
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:)
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I`ve never seen that design, but like it. congrats from Bavaria.
Hans
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Congrats on a successful hunt and a pretty cool bow.
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Congratulations on the bull elk and a good looking bow.
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Yeh, I like that!
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Great story, great bow, great hunt. Bet you start carrying more arrows in you quiver lol. Can only imagine how frustrating it would have been had you only had 3 arrows and had to sit there watching him.
Bjrogg
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first off, congrats on that bull. that's awesome! second, what the what!? that bow is just beautiful! incredible craftsmanship.
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Congtats on the shot! Really sweet looker for sure.
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Great story,your heart must have been pumping overtime!stunning bow!very creative indeed!
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Beautiful looking bow, and congrats on the elk.
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That is the most unique bow I've ever seem. Well I've seen a few fantasy bows that were more "unique" but this one actually functions. ;D
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What tools did you use and how did you know what dimensions of this hollow should be? I would like to make that or either single hollow limbed bow.
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Thanks Pat!
Congratulations Carson on your elk!!!.Lot of meat there.Exciting hunt!!!!You must have hit the juggler heh?????Unique design of your bow too.I like it.
Ed, Lots of meat, indeed. About180-190 lbs worth of meat, no bone. Not bad for a little bull. The broadhead cut the top of the heart, then lung, then diaphragm.
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Thanks Greg
James, I am just trying to keep up with you all. :)
Hamish - I do the bulk of tillering by feel, so this was challenging. Trying to feel the thickness of the valley and the peaks was difficult. I felt like the bow would have been a very efficient at 70-75# given the width/length, and design. As it is it is a little overbuilt. I overshot the draw weight because the tillering was difficult.
Yes Ed, I wish they all would give me 4 chances. ;D This guy was a complete gift.
Thanks Steve
Willie, I was thinking of that illustration that Allely did of an Oregon yew bow that had a keel when I was shaping this one up. I do think the keel adds performance. It adds resistance with minimal additional mass. During heat treating, it is possible to get the keel very hard.
Thanks Brenden- it has a lot of shape going on. :)
Thanks Stalker, no smoke and mirrors here, just a piece of yew. ;D
Thanks Mike, Hans, rps3, Joe, mud!
Bjrogg - I think I said a little prayer as I pulled that last arrow from my quiver. :) I might start carrying six or more sharp broadheads.
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:) I might start carrying six or more sharp broadheads.
Carry enough to plant an Iowabow style fence around 'em!
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Don't you love it when you make a special bow for a certain hunt and it all comes together? :)Congratulations on a nice elk and a sweet looking bow.
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Very unique bow Carson, you are a true master
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That is so cool!
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Nice story and outcome. Oh ya the bow is out of this world too. Great job!
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Thanks Pat!
Congratulations Carson on your elk!!!.Lot of meat there.Exciting hunt!!!!You must have hit the juggler heh?????Unique design of your bow too.I like it.
Ed, Lots of meat, indeed. About180-190 lbs worth of meat, no bone. Not bad for a little bull. The broadhead cut the top of the heart, then lung, then diaphragm.
Lordy....You got full penetration on that elk.Missed all the bone.You are blessed Carson.With that penetration he's going down!!!!Coooool!!!!Would of liked to have been there.Did the feathers disappear??At least you did'nt have to go very far to find him....lol.Congratulations again!!!!Meat/horn/hide/sinew and more.A grocery store/bow making material/robe or shirt/ and more is another way to look at it.I'd say you should be happy bud.That bow had to take forever to tiller too.I hav'nt seen another like it.
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Thanks Pat!
Congratulations Carson on your elk!!!.Lot of meat there.Exciting hunt!!!!You must have hit the juggler heh?????Unique design of your bow too.I like it.
Ed, Lots of meat, indeed. About180-190 lbs worth of meat, no bone. Not bad for a little bull. The broadhead cut the top of the heart, then lung, then diaphragm.
Lordy....You got full penetration on that elk.Missed all the bone.You are blessed Carson.With that penetration he's going down!!!!Coooool!!!!Would of liked to have been there.Did the feathers disappear??At least you did'nt have to go very far to find him....lol.Congratulations again!!!!Meat/horn/hide/sinew and more.A grocery store/bow making material/robe or shirt/ and more is another way to look at it.I'd say you should be happy bud.That bow had to take forever to tiller too.I hav'nt seen another like it.
No Ed, the feqthers didnt disappear, In fact I recall seeing about one 1/4 the length of the arrow sticking out of his chest as he turned and trotted off. But when I found him, the arrow was broke off just at the fletching and the rest of the shaft was inside of him. I think he drove it in as he stumbled into a pile of windfall lodgepoles. I heard him stumble and crash within 5-6 seconds of arrowing him. He let out a death groan as he crashed. It was quite a feeling after having hit two nice bulls the last two years only to come up empty handed. One not fatal, the other looked to be in the ponch/liver, and I just didnt give him enough time. it was such a relief to hear this one go down and know that it was a quick clean kill. I was 5 miles back in the wilderness. I hiked everything but the guts and the pelvis out. I have gallons of elk bone broth, a freezer full of meat, and I have the hide scraped clean... just need to get in the brains. Oh yeah, and some nice back and leg sinews. And still need to cook the oil out of the canon bones, and what to do with the hooves, and.... ;D
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that bow is a work of art... please please don't break it....
send it to me for safe keeping...
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How wide is it at the fades and what tools did you use to hollow out the limbs? Are there specific dimensions for that, I would like to attempt double hollow design.
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Wooo ... that's all I got :o
Just wooo!
Del
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Nice job on the elk, Carson!
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Awesome bow, and congrats on the elk! I like the double hollow limb
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Thanks fellas.
Stalker, Width at fades is 2 1/8". I used a couple of different sized gouges and a goose neck scraper. I bought a random assortment of beat up old gouges on ebay a few years back for pretty cheap and reworked them all to nice honed edges. Nothing like old steel.
One thing I noticed using the gouges on the hollow limb, especially around knots, is that you end up following the grain of the annual growth rings. As you hollow out the limb, you are shaping it in a way that is similar to how it grew.
Mullet, yes, you gotta love it when it all comes together. I am hoping to find enough time to make a yew longbow for late deer season. :)
Thanks Pat, I think a few folks at the range thought I was just trying to be fancy, for fancy sake, but most were impressed with its performance.
I dont know about that Ryan. I look forward to the day when I feel like I have mastered bowyery, but I dont know if that is really doable. I really think I came in underweight with these dimensions and design, but I was committed to getting tiller right.
JW, I just about had him fenced in. Is there an Iowabow story?
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That's a most unique and interesting bow.......and very well crafted. What is the premise behind building a bow like that? Nice harvest too. Enjoy the meals.
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Awesome bow, awesome elk! Congrats on both
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Congrats on your successful hunt.Nice young elk. I have never seen this bow design before,it's very striking. I keep coming back and looking at it. Very nice. God Bless
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:o that's.. quite the bow there..
double hollow, interesting
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Thanks Drewster.
Thanks Blayne
Thank you Pete. That is very nice of you to say.
Thanks Loon.
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No fair showing off your bow with a dead elk!
Here's a couple pictures I have.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8130/29388727774_63ac1af11f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LLYUT1)
Here's Carson showing off his fanny pack
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5184/29388732024_e410962622_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LLYW9h)
Here is Carson meditating on his arrow hitting a bull.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8274/29388737504_97ad4b9336_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LLYXLL)
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Awesome elk. Awesome bow.
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Here's Carson showing off his fanny pack
Lol! Does this fanny pack make my butt look big?
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How does that spine on the belly not fail in compression?
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Your bow is the heck of a masterfully crafted weapon, and I’m glad you could take a nice deer already! Congrats!
To bad I cannot see and examine that extraordinary bow in person.
I really like everything on this bow, the color of the beautiful yew, the muscles on the back ….
But most impressive is the idea of the double HLD. I was waiting so long for you American guys to jump in the HLD idea! Now there are two specimens of extra quality: yours and Weylin’s. My thought is, there is much potential for efficiency and performance. we should make with a lot more with this design to get the specs.
Have you weighed the bow, and compared with similar non HLD bows? I’m not familiar with Badger’s mass principle, maybe you - can you say something about that? My experience is we can save a good amount of mass compared to a ‚normal’ bow design. Can you feel the limbs flattening out while drawing the bow? Have you measured the speed with a chrony?
Again the beauty of that bow is breathtaking.
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Congrats on both, nice job both times. :)
Pappy
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That is a masterpiece of a bow at all points.
Very interesting cross-section of the limb.
I guess the double-hollow cross- section is enlarging the surface of the bow's bellies. In addition a profiled cross- section is keeping the limbs much more stable and straight.
I would like to find out if such a profiled belly would reduce chrysalis.
Any ideas about that?
Michael
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Wow! Congratulations on your success. I'm intrigued about the bow! Really beautiful Carson.
Again, congratulations! Must have been an amazing experience. :)
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I guess its ok.... >:D
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Sleek. "how does the ridge on the belly not fail in compression?" Because yew is magic :)
I am not sure really, but the bow has thousands of arrows through it at this point and is holding up fine. I showed it to Keenan Howard and he said, "awesome, the ridges are too small to chrysal!" He might be on to something. I have seen strong keels in illustrations of Native yew bows. I have also seen a number of James Rempp's bows that have a ridge on the belly, some in very stressed designs.
Simson, Thank you. I drew much inspiration for this bow from your work. I just weighed it and it is 18 oz. I am not sure where that puts it with the mass principle, but if anyone wants to calculate it, it has a 8" handle and 11" from fade to fade. 63" nock to nock. Again, I think this bow is overbuilt by a fair margin. If I could have hit tiller at 70# it would really be something special performance wise. Probably would have only required another 1/2 oz. of wood left in the right places to do this. I am not sure if the limbs are flattening out at draw. It does feel like it handles the stack at the back end of the draw well, like maybe there is a slight "let off effect" of the limbs flattening out. This is barely perceptible, it just feels like it doesn't stack quite as much as it should in the last inch or two. I put it through a chrono a while back and got 165 fps with a 625 grn arrow. Not super fast but enough to kill an elk :) I have since heat treated the belly. With pronounced ridges, the peaks of the ridges can be thoroughly hardened over the coals. It might be a touch faster now as the unbraced profile is near flat now.
Thanks Redhawk. Yes, the belly surface is certainly increased by this design, but the wood doing the majority of the compression work is concentrated into small area. I think it would be more stable and straight. That was one of my first thoughts when I first saw photos of Simon's HLD bows.
I don't know if it would reduce Chrysals, but so far so good. :)
Thanks Parnell. It was quite an experience! Packing the meat out of the wilderness, I had a lot of time to relive the excitement and sweetness of it all. This was the first elk hunt where I carried tobacco with me and made offerings to the great elk spirit here and there in the beds of the elk we would nap in during the day, and then again of course after the harvest.
Thanks Soy, I guess ;D
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That bow looks magical 8),
R.D.
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Wow! That is just amazing! Weylin's too! :o 8) Man, I was going to say, you must have been studying Simson's bows. ;) Don't you just love the way, deer, and elk, find the most difficult place to die!?
Man that must have been a heck of a hard time, gutting, and skinning, and packing out the meat, bones, and hide. I think I would have had to cut that log out of the way, to maneuver the elk for processing. Man to get Simson's appreciation of your bow, is quite a compliment. He is definitely a master of beautiful, and functional bows. Your bow is quite a master piece. Thanks for sharing, and enjoy the fantastic meals, and all the material you harvested. I have plenty of elk meat, thanks to friends, that I have helped process their elk. That is a well deserved Woo Hoo!
Wayne
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That's awesomeness in both pics and bow!!! Thanx for sharing!!!
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Beautiful bow and Bull, very nicely done . :)
Pappy
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Beautifully different!
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I can't stop looking at it. Absolutely stunning! Way to go!
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Awesome looking bow Carson, I think it should help avoid fractures both on the tension and compression side of the bow. Should also work on heavily crowned wood.
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Thanks fellas.
Yes Stickbender, I spend a lot of time studying the photos of Simon's bows. He is a true master of selfbows. I just read his article in PA magazine on the hollow limb design, which is a great summary of the design that hopefully will get some more folks to try it out. For those that haven't discovered it yet, Simon has a website called stonehill primitives that showcases his bows nicely. We have e-mailed a bit and he is not feeling completely healthy. He is still making bows but just doesn't have the energy to photograph and post all of them.
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It's simply a beauty! Congratulations!!!! And a very interesting limb design for yew.
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That is a great looking bow Carson, and to take an Elk with it has to feel like a true sense of accomplishment. Congrats!!
Ed