Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Eric Garza on November 02, 2016, 05:41:47 pm
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Inspired by a conversation on the trade blanket, I'm curious how long it typically takes folks to make a bow? As folks offer their estimates, it would be great if you'd qualify them with whether or not you use power tools (bandsaws, for instance) or just hand tools, and whether you start with a seasoned stave or a live tree (meaning the time estimate includes the time involved in felling the tree, splitting and roughing the stave, caring for it while it dries and seasons, etc.)
Myself, I'd guess I invest 30-40 hours in each bow that I make. I do not use any power tools; I use a pull-cut saw to cut small trees, wedges and an old hatchet head to split staves, a hatchet for rough work, a draw knife and farrier's rasp for moderately coarse work, and a cabinet scraper for fine work and finishing. I usually don't back my bows anymore, so this estimate does not include any sort of backing.
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I can finish a simple bend in the handle D bow in as little as 12 hours. Narrow/stiff handled bows with fades/etc...30+ is about right.
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Eric, if you are counting cutting and splittiing the staves I would say you are pretty fast. Most of the time I don't use power tools, sometimes I run across one that tends to rear out and rip and in that case I might rough it out on the bandsaw. I buy all my staves so I don't have that time invested. I will usually spend the first day maybe 4 hours chasing a ring and shaping the bow to floor tiller. I come back in the morning for finish tiller and If I decide to do finish work. I would say if I go all out about 12 hours.
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Not counting then time involved in finding the tree, applying for a permit, cutting and splitting, just from seasoned stave to bow. But 15-30 is normal, including all the variables: tip overlays or not, recurves, type of grip etc. This is all assuming a nice straight, knot free stave. Sinew backing.....that's a whole other story.
I'm curious how long most people spend stripping out sinew for the "average" sinew backed bow. It takes me a good 8-10 hours just to do that.....maybe more.
Eric
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Guess I'm the odd one out here. I figure it takes me no more than an hour to drop a tree and get at least four staves out of it. So that's 15 minutes per stave.
Since I get up a bunch of staves at once, it might take me a minute to paint the ends of one and less to spray bug killer if I don't peal the bark (usually don't with Osage). If I peel the bark, that's another five to 10 minutes.
I cut nearly to final dimensions with a band saw, fine tune with a rasp, cut nocks with a nock rasp I made, finish tiller with a scraper and belt sander.
All together, I think I have from three to four hours in a bow when It's ready to put the lacquer to it.
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I'm (almost) never in a hurry with one. The 3 to 4 hours Jim stated is a WOW for me. I measure in weeks. Few hours here and there. Set it aside and pick up another until I'm ready to tackle it again. I figure all total 10-20 hours from stave to bow, and that's just a guess.
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I cut the tree with a small hand saw. pack it out. peel it split it. drive around with it in my car for 6-8 months to dry. Do my roughing out with a machete, all of that is pretty quick. It takes about 3 or 4 hours, not counting the dry time.
I use the heavy side of the rasp to get to floor tiller and the fine side to get to brace. After its braced its really slow. three to five scrapes at a time and take a look.
Grand total including the 30 minutes to make a string probably like 40 + hours...
Msturm
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I'll have 3 to 4 hours just in the sanding and finish work. If I'm going to make a bow, or anything for that matter, I'm taking my time and putting all of my efforts into it.
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it varyies fron bow to bow,, If I had to make one fast I could,, but I usually am working a little at a time when my schedule allows, so have no idea how many hours I have in a bow,,, I try not to work on one when I am tired,, I have been working on one now for several months,,but can make one in a day if need be,,,starting from a stave,, but I dont like working that fast,, I am usually working on several bows at a time,, maybe 5,, so that is hard to keep track of,, I will rough out the stave with a band saw if available, but like using hatchet and draw knife too,, ok,, sorry for the vague time frame,, but thats how I do it now,,
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I would hate to know how many hrs I put into a bow. I only use a chainsaw to cut the tree from then on out nothing but blood sweat and tears with hand tools. I would say 40+ for me. I'm slow very slow I mean turtle slow! But I have fun doing it and the end result of getting to shoot it means I have already forgot about all the hrs I put into it.
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Like Osage Outlaw, if I invest myself in a bow, I go all the way. I have about 6-8 hours in final sanding, dying, finishing, string, handle wrap, silencers, etc.
I've actually kept track of my time, both with selfbows and glass/wood lam bows and they're both about 20-25 hours if everything goes well... although the most stubborn and involved builds were easily double that. Heck, I can have over 10 hours just in catching, butchering, skinning, and tanning leather for a grip. All depends. Time only matters if you'd rather be someplace else.
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Im sure i could nock one out in 4-5, but the rest is the actual finishing, working through every last grit of sandpaper. The art work that is involved makes up most of the time. Like Dances with squirrels said, just for the grip material, theres lots of time involved. I shot the elk two years ago, it spent 10 months in a bark bath.....does this time count too. If it does, it cost someone to buy a bow from me about 40 cents an hour of my time.
Eric
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I'd say 20 to 40 for me.
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Not counting the time I spend looking, cutting, and seasoning staves, I can make a simple flat or longbow in 6-8 hours. Recurves, heat bending, tip overlays, skins, finish and grip can add a lot of time. One of those takes me probably 15-20 hours. I use only hand tools, but I use mainly yew which is pretty easy to work. I also work on 5 or 6 at once
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Start to shooting 4 hours on a bow that doesn't have recurves or flaws that need correcting. And That doesn't include heat treating.
It's the finish work that seems to take forever
So hmm so 4 hours at the least and max I think 16 or so hours, not counting finish dry times
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I'll use a chain saw for cutting the tree. I split by hand. LOL. That;s getting toughter as I age. I use a hatchet for roughing out. Then go to a draw knife and clean the stave up with a belt sander. Then hand tools only for tillering.
It take a good 30-50 hours but who's counting? This is my hobby. :)
Jawge
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I cut the sapling and debark it same day, then mark bow layout and shape it in rough bow shape. That takes me maybe 5 hours. Then I clamp it to a aluminum "U" profile and put it in attic for a month. Then when it loses most of weight I make him in almost finished state, leaving enough thickness taper for tillering, that is 2 hours maybe. I put it in house near radiator (in winter) or outside in a shed (summer) for at least a week.
Tillering will take me at least 20 hours. So somewhere around 27+ hours.
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There is a lot of thinking time, and time that gets forgotten... an hour to fell the tree and split, but how long to find the tree and drive to and fro, prepping, sorting, stacking staves etc.
I always say 50 hours, but I've made a shootable bow in 1 hour... mind that didn't include finding the stave in the woodland.
Del
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I estimate around 30-40 hours for my typical bows. But this usually includes straightening, recurves, skins/stain, grip, tip overlays, string, sealer, etc. So I guess most of that time is spent on the finish work. But like Clint said, if I'm going to invest my time into something, I go all out.
Now arrows, I spend another 10-15 hours on a set of 4-6 dogwood's
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30 to 40 hours is a good ball park figure for me too. As time is becoming more of a premium, I've stopped making arrow shelves and design everything for 'shooting off the knuckle', this saves me a lot of time.
In the Ed Scott video interviews he addresses this question in terms of various styles of bows.
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Sometimes I use power tools to cut the tree down and sometimes by hand. I don't cut saplings so if done by hand you can add at least an hour to the 5 minutes it takes with a chainsaw. Splitting 1 stave out from the tree might take an hour even when kerfing with a circular saw, which I do all the time. Removing the bark and roughing out a straight limb bow adds another hour or more if it's HHB, I do use some power tools here. The tillering might take me 5 or 6 hours and finishing it up is another 8 hours, I spend more time sanding, finishing the tips and setting up the handle as I do tillering. Applying the finish is more of a waiting game, probably less than an hour total for the actual application and buffing up in between coats. I guess that runs about 20 to 25 hours. I'm not counting the scouting here because that is just too much fun to include it as work :).
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Thanks for all the responses folks! I've always wondered whether my 30-40 hours is normal, or whether I'm a slowpoke. It looks like I'm pretty normal, though there are certainly folks who can bang out a bow in less time.
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I would say 20/30 hours, I do most times use a band saw to rough out , I am about like Brad, hard to say for sure because I have several project going at ones and sometimes it may take a year or two for me to complete. In no real hurry unless it is getting close to hunting season and I have given all my hunting bows away, ??? then it don't take near as long. ;) :) Sometimes I am in the mood to rough out a stave and lay a bow out, then throw it in the barrel and work on it when I feel the urge maybe a year or 3 down the road. ;)
Pappy
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I think it has a lot to do with why we are building a bow. I start off each bow thinking it might be a world record flight bow. If everything continues to go right ( No set) I will continue to add reflex or recurve the tips a bit more. I see the tillering and tweaking process as my entertainment, 90% of the time I will end up pushing it just a bit further than it should have been pushed. This is where I call it quits and go a ahead and sand it down and seal it. I seldom ever get around to actually finishing a bow. Not unusual for me to play around with a bow for several days, testing, shooting and working it with the heat gun.
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Actual hands on working time from cutting to finishing can be as much as 20 hours generally or more.Assuming the wood is dry and ready.Waiting on things can drag the finished bow to finish a month down the road.That's with no sinew.For just a plain old straight long bow.Chain saw the tree.Split the staves.Debark and chase the ring.Cut the rough profile out with the band saw.Get a lot closer with the farriers rasp and spindle sander to floor tiller.That amount there 8 to 10 hours I'd say.Tillering generally 3 to 4 hours.Shooting it in a good 2 weeks at least 20 to 30 hours to almost 500 arrows with at least an hour fitting a leather handle to it yet.Finishing a week with actual hands on work 2 hours.
If there are any issues along the way sometimes it can take twice as long.
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Seems to depend a lot on the wood and the tool as well. I hammered through soft wood bows like backed juniper or red cedar(assuming it isn't sinewed) pretty quickly. Maybe just 8 hours start to finish excluding shooting it in. When I have a hardwood (for me in Taiwan I have acacia, cassaurina, guava, persimmon and mock-orange) I imagine it takes me significantly more than that. I just do it in little 1-2 hour segments every day and it will go well over a month. I'm sure if I were more adept, I would be more picky and slower. Like Badger said, I kind of play with a bow a bit hoping to have my new favourite bow and rarely if ever completely finish one because it falls short somewhere along the way. I don't count the time much because of this, just work with the wood as I pull the bow out, experiment and learn. The tool you use makes a big difference too. I noticed you can chop a huge portion of time off by using cabinet scrappers for the final tillering and shaping because you won't be wasting time sanding with sandpaper. The guys at Bickerstaffe Bows do it this way.
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You guys are pretty quick. If its a board bow (excluding glue dry-time and waiting etc) I would say a simple D bow can be finished in as little as 8hours. A stave bow, with shaping and bending and finishing (without any type of backing) can take me up to 40+ hours. But I have found myself tweaking a bow and its finish for several weeks after I have started shooting it...;)
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I agree with Bryce that the finish time seems to take forever and a day. At least ever since these guys turned me onto tru oil. Thanks a lot. Lol
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Already told about my time to make a bow. But I probably should admit there's not much primitive about my methods. This certainly applies to the finish. My bows get one, or at most two coats of lacquer sanding sealer. It dries in less than an hour and is good to go. Sometimes, I'll sand lightly after the first coat and apply a second.
Thing is, I like shooting much more than I like making bows, so I get them shooting pretty quickly.
Jim Davis
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My standard answer to someone inquiring about a bow from me, I tell them 14 years and 40 hours. The fourteen years to learn what I know and the 40 hours to do it.