Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: upstatenybowyer on December 10, 2016, 08:52:27 pm
-
Working on an HHB ALB. There's a hole where a knot used to be near the handle. Nothing on the other side though. Recommendations? Fill it? If so with what?
Thanks
-
Clean it out and leave it a hole....my 2cents
DBar
-
Clean it out and leave it a hole....my 2cents
DBar
×2
-
The violated back will give you more potential problems.
-
I dont think the back is violated...that looks like a little cambium is all. As far as the belly goes you can just mix a little tb3 and sawdust together and fill it with that.
-
I dont think the back is violated...that looks like a little cambium is all. As far as the belly goes you can just mix a little tb3 and sawdust together and fill it with that.
It's violated wherever there isn't cambium. You simply cannot remove bark from HHB with a sharp edge and not violate it
TB and sawdust is purely cosmetic. You need to try to duplicate solid wood if you want a functional fill.
-
If that was my bow I'd leave it empty.
-
Wow, I've never heard that about the cambium. I was extremely careful not to violate the wood underneath and I didn't think leaving a little cam on the back would be a problem. I've got the bow tillered out to 25" and there are absolutely no signs that it's about to blow. I was also careful not to leave any full running strands of cambuim. I figure if it's not continuous, it's not being stressed in tension, so how could it harm the bow?
Here's another pic of the back
-
Not to hijack the thread...but ive never had hhb bark come off clean without leaving some cambium. I did cut it a little later in the summer and im sure that accounted for the sticky cambium. Ive also never had and of the bows i worked with cambium that i "scraped" off fail.
Ive also filled a couple holes with sawdust and glue and never had a problem. Since the hole doesnt go all the way thru maybe this would create a different scenario...i dont know.
Just my experiences. Im sure Pat has more experience then myself.
-
I dont think it ll hurt anything,,IMHO
Id glue something interesting in it,,,,little eye ball would be funny : )
-
Wow, I've never heard that about the cambium. I was extremely careful not to violate the wood underneath and I didn't think leaving a little cam on the back would be a problem. I've got the bow tillered out to 25" and there are absolutely no signs that it's about to blow. I was also careful not to leave any full running strands of cambuim. I figure if it's not continuous, it's not being stressed in tension, so how could it harm the bow?
Here's another pic of the back
Leaving the bits of cambium isn't a problem. Nicking the ridges off can be. You have to see a peeled HHB trunk to realize what it's actually like under there.
-
Thanks Pat. I took a very close look at the back and I see what you mean about the ridges. Think a safety backing is in order? Perhaps a strong paper? Man... I was really hoping for a nice natural back. :-\
-
HHB is one of the better woods for coping with this but I prefer to just keep it pristine. You probably can get away with it, many do.
The best way to get it all off out of those furrows is to dampen it well and use a spoon tip to plough it all off and out of the valleys.
-
It's HHB, I wouldn't worry about it.
-
I wouldn't worry about the back unless you are making a highly stressed design. It should be fine with no backing.
-
HHB is all I use for my bows. I have not had functional issues with some cambium left on, but found it to be more difficult to get a good bow if it is a heavily crowned stave (could be my level of skill of course). I have now gone to larger trees where I only have a lightly crowned back. The bow stave in the picture does not appear to be heavily crowned, so I am thinking that you should still get a functional bow out of it despite the hole.
Any holes or larger knots I had, I have drilled and then scraped them out and filled them with wood filler or mixed my own sawdust and white glue and not had any issues. I was mostly lucky by having mine closer to the handle where I had more wood to work with and they didn't go through all the way.
Question for PatM: What has your experience been with HHB? Are you always taking all the cambium off? I find that the only time I can get it easily off is with a tree taken in the spring or early summer. Also you have frequently small ridges just below the cambium, do you touch them or do you also leave them intact. I personally don't touch them at all, I find it adds character and beauty to the bow and I have so far not getting tension failures as long as the bow was not too heavily crowned.
-
I make it look like it was peeled when the sap was running. Everything is left intact.
-
You don't appear to have left extra width around where that knot is. Not 'adding' the extra width a knot is taking up will lead to chrysalis. I know it can be hard sometimes as that knot doesn't show too obviously on the back but you need to rtealize that say that knot is 1/4 wide then you essentially have 1/4' narrow spot on your belly to take the compression. Plus the concensus on knots appears to be to leave them stiff (I don't wider is better than a thick spot on a limb) - again throwing more stress onto that spot. HHB is awesome in compression so hopefully it will be ok for you...
-
When I run into knots in HHB that don't go through, like so often they dont. I just leave them be and soak them with super glue until they wont accept anymore. Your back looks fine to me.
-
I do as Chris but I also leave the area a little stiff.
As Pat says, the back will probably be okay as long as the bow is kept low stress. You can help it out by using a shallow D section belly
I have left cambium on HHB many times. If there's too much then it will pop a little as you tiller, very unnerving. Once the bow is tillered out you can use some steel wool and lightly rub the back, it will snag any loose cambium and remove it.
-
Great. Thanks everyone.
-
it would be very easy to rawhide back it,, if you are worried,,,
also keep in mind,, everyone keeps mentioning a low stress design,, because of the hole, probably a good idea, maybe little less on the draw weight or draw length,,
-
^ gotcha. It's an ALB, 68" ntn, which shouldn't put too much stress in any one particular place. I've got it tillered out a tad bit light for me, 45# @ 27" but I was going to toast the belly and that will probably add some weight.
-
Toasting the belly will make the back situation more potentially iffy,
-
I thought of that. Man, I'm really torn :-\ should I go for the beauty of a natural back, accept the lighter weight and a little more set, or do I heat treat some reflex in and rawhide back it? Pat, I'm wondering what you would do...
-
You know ....It's what "you" want to end up with.....:)
DBar
-
Even if it's a bang on the head. ;)
-
your at the "bowyers cross road",,,,,only you can decide,,
go for the more sure thing,, or risk it,,, to gain a bit of performance,, sometimes Better is the enemy of success,, :) but no guts no glory,, see you even have me confused,,,,,,
-
^ AHHHHHHH!!!!!! ;D
-
I would finish that bow up and not think twice about the back. That's just me though. I scraped off the cambium layer on the white wood bows that I have made and never had a problem. Do whatever you think is best. It's your bow.
-
I would finish that bow up and not think twice about the back. That's just me though. I scraped off the cambium layer on the white wood bows that I have made and never had a problem. Do whatever you think is best. It's your bow.
He wants to draw it more than 25" though. ;D
-
Not by much. The bow is 68" long and he wants to draw it to 27". I don't think that will be a problem.
-
Outlaw, I like your style. However, lets say I do want to back it... is there any cheaper way to buy rawhide than from 3 rivers?
-
Trade for it on here.
-
Anyone ever use rawhide lacing for backing a bow?
-
Why do you want to use lacing? Rawhide is nothing but scraped and dried deer hide or goat.
-
It's cheaper than strips.
-
I bought an entire deer rawhide from a local leather supplier for around 80$
Sounds like a lot, but you can back many bows from one hide, as well as lots of scraps
for other things
-
You know ....It's what "you" want to end up with.....:)
DBar
Truer words never spoken😉
-
I bought an entire deer rawhide from a local leather supplier for around 80$
Sounds like a lot, but you can back many bows from one hide, as well as lots of scraps
for other things
Smart. I wonder if Santa deals in rawhide. I think I'm on the nice list. O:)
-
There is a bunch of whole deer rawhide on the big auction site.
-
you can buy a goat rawhide for about 20 dollars,, without the hair even,, it will make alot of strips,,
-
I would go ahead and tiller it out even with heat-treating, just don't put a lot of reflex into the bow. Make sure the bow is given plenty of time to hydrate back up and don't use it in very dry weather
-
I would go ahead and tiller it out even with heat-treating, just don't put a lot of reflex into the bow. Make sure the bow is given plenty of time to hydrate back up and don't use it in very dry weather
Will do. I'm hoping that with the length, a patient tiller and the low stress heat treating set will be minimal. I will definitely give it time to rehydrate as well. It's dry in my house from heating with wood, but will it rehydrate say in the garage where the humidity is about 65% but it's cold?
-
you can buy a goat rawhide for about 20 dollars,, without the hair even,, it will make alot of strips,,
This sounds like a deal. Where should I look?
-
In my opinion, it all depends on how thick that first growth ring is. If it is 1/4" thick and all you've done is skinned a few little ridges off, you're fine, hasn't been violated at all unless you've nicked from one ring to the next. If the growth ring is less that 1/32" then it might be a little risky.
-
You'll never see a 1/4" thick ring on HHB
Use a shallow D section belly as well, that will take some stress off the back
-
I gave it a shallow D section belly as you suggested on another thread Marc as well as a nice even heat treating. I'll have to tweak the tiller a bit more, but I think this one's gonna make it. I'll be sure to post the finished bow when it's ready.