Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Double Acre on January 03, 2017, 09:17:36 pm
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Good evening all!
Relatively new lurker, recently registered for posting. Figure i'd start out with a quick thanks to the admins for the approval along with thanks to the members who post some amazing info!
I decided to try my hand at a 2nd board bow and recently picked up a 1x3" red oak board from the local big box store. My first attempt wasn't a "failure" (yet), as it was just not completed entirely. Things got a little hectic around the house and work and the bow in progress was put on a shelf in the garage, where it has been for over a year now. Not sure if there is a "shelf life" when it comes to working the wood, but i'll probably pull it in the house and give it a good look over.. hopefully I can finish it.
With the new board, I am looking to make something hunting capable, around 50-55ish lbs at 28" draw. I have gone over a few of the build alongs, and I believe a pyramid is the direction I am heading again (first one is a pyramid too). The two build alongs I have read have different overall ttt and ntn lengths.. one being 66 ttt and the other 68 ttt. Would the longer length be a little easier on the bow?
I also have some pictures of the board and the grain if anyone is interested in seeing them.
Thanks!
DA
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Welcome to the P.A. I wish you luck on your bow man! I'm new here too. great place to learn and share though right?
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Welcome, go ahead and go 68"ttt
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Sure, post some photos of the grain. You are going to get all the advice you can eat, and then some. You would be hard pressed to find a bunch of people more happy to see you succeed, so we will get fully behind you.
On the other hand, we can throw some good hearted ribbing around, too. Don't let us get too far under your skin before you throw it back at us! Deal?
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Thanks for the welcome guys!
Got the new board trimmed down to 68" - hoping to have a little time after work this week to start laying it out!
Here are some pictures of the newest 1x3 red oak board that I selected. I didn't realize how difficult it would be to try and capture the grain with my phone camera, but here are the best of them
(https://s6.postimg.org/yh2zxjwn1/edge.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yh2zxjwn1/)
(https://s6.postimg.org/u987osv7h/grain2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u987osv7h/)
(https://s6.postimg.org/3pfmmnunx/grain5.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3pfmmnunx/)
Initially I was looking at a board that had really thick late wood rings, but I wasn't sure the grain structure on the back and belly of the bow would hold up to the flex. didn't want to have it snap and give me a good whack! Here are a couple pics of that board.
(https://s6.postimg.org/bw7me8kql/thick_grain.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bw7me8kql/)
(https://s6.postimg.org/ib6nawrgd/thick_rings.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ib6nawrgd/)
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No experience w/ board bows, but welcome!
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The first board looks like it has a bow in it. I have made several red oak bows from boards just like that.
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Let the fun begin!
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You can also make a bend in the handle bow. Rip the board to 1 3/8" for 45# if you tiller well.
Much easier for a beginner.
Buildalong on my site.
Gotta go.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
Jawge
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Definitely go to George's website. After years and years of fine tuning, editing, and careful consideration, it has become all you really need for the basics of a board bow build. Hundreds of people have come in here, been sent to that site, and nailed it on their first try! It really is the 101 class. You pass that class and you are well on your way to learning all the other facts, figures, philosophies, fallacies, and B.S.
That second board looks the best. I say put it in the corner and let it marinate in good vibes and loving feelings. Now take the other one, which still looks pretty dang good, and go to work. My philosophy is to start working on "good enough" wood because you ain't out much if/when you fail (and learn), then switch to good wood and learn how to really perfect your craft. Finally, switch to nasty, crappy, fugly wood to show off and make everyone understand you are the BOSS!
My reasoning is this: 1) you are learning the most basic stuff, including how the tools and the material work. These are the RULES! 2) then you are learning WHY the rules are the rules and how the science behind it works. 3) time to break the rules, and you cannot break the rules successfully until you know how to cheat them at their own game. It's the philosophy of Apprentice, Journeyman, and finally, Master.
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Welcome to PA double acre, I haven't done a board bow but I think JW just nailed it. Only thing I might add I keep your eyes and ears open for bow wood. Harvest it whenever the opportunity arises. It's truly amazing how much a person can go through once you get hooked on this addiction
Bjrogg
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You can also make a bend in the handle bow. Rip the board to 1 3/8" for 45# if you tiller well.
Much easier for a beginner.
Buildalong on my site.
Gotta go.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
Jawge
Thank you! I already have your site bookmarked! Will be going through it soon after I post this.
Welcome to PA double acre, I haven't done a board bow but I think JW just nailed it. Only thing I might add I keep your eyes and ears open for bow wood. Harvest it whenever the opportunity arises. It's truly amazing how much a person can go through once you get hooked on this addiction
Bjrogg
Thanks Bjrogg! I live out in the country and have been trying to learn to identify some of these trees in the winter. On my property I have an abundance of red/white oak, some ash (I think), maple, poplar and hickory. i've been eyeballing a couple hickory trees that are about 4-5" in diameter (they are really straight saplings that started growing from the base of a nice big hickory), but I have been hesitant to cut them because i was reading that too small of a diameter has a high crown?? Really wish I had access to hop horn beam or locust.. (I might) - I live in northern Maryland, so if anyone is up this way, maybe we can chat about local tree ID.
If I did cut any bow wood now, it would simple be to get it seasoning while I learn the basics on these boards :)
Thanks again everyone! really appreciate the replies!
DA
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Thanks for the kind words, JW.
You are welcome, Double Acre.
Jawge
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Update on the bow endeavor:
I decided to use a 1.5" wide red oak board I have and followed along with Jawges guide. 68" ttt, 1.5 wide, 3/4" down to 3/8" limb taper. Got the stick layed out and mostly shaped. The trouble I am running into now, is that one limb has a slight bow, bowing away from the belly (not sure what this is called), while the other limb is nearly straight from the center mark.
Before I start a long string tiller, I wanted to know if I should attempt to bend the straight limb to match the bowed one, or if I should straighten the bowed one? If so, would heat bending or steam be better?
I tried to get pictures of the bend, but I couldn't get them to turn out. Here are a couple of the layout
(https://s6.postimg.org/bzxrjhypp/belly_taper.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bzxrjhypp/) (https://s6.postimg.org/ugs6abenx/handle.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ugs6abenx/) (https://s6.postimg.org/ewpdxitx9/nocksize.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ewpdxitx9/)
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Welcome to the forums Double Acre!
If your board is bending away from the belly, that's called reflex. Bending towards the belly is deflex.
Personally if the reflex in one limb is so slight that it's hard to even get a picture of it, I would just leave it. Bending the other one to match it probably opens up more room for error than letting it work itself out during tiller. It will develop some string follow anyway, and might even out like that.
Looking forward to seeing this bow shape up!
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Welcome to the forums Double Acre!
If your board is bending away from the belly, that's called reflex. Bending towards the belly is deflex.
Personally if the reflex in one limb is so slight that it's hard to even get a picture of it, I would just leave it. Bending the other one to match it probably opens up more room for error than letting it work itself out during tiller. It will develop some string follow anyway, and might even out like that.
Looking forward to seeing this bow shape up!
Thank you for the welcome!
I layed the bow on its back on a flat surface and managed to get a couple of pics. Upon further inspection, it appears one limb is about 1/4" in deflex while the other limb is about a heavy 1/8th" of reflex. The reflex picture is approximately at mid-limb.
(https://s6.postimg.org/6xl12get9/deflex.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6xl12get9/) (https://s6.postimg.org/ud2y7sykd/reflex.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ud2y7sykd/)
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The reflex and deflex is piddly and beneath your attention. The tillering process will likely change all that anyway.
Start your next step!
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The reflex and deflex is piddly and beneath your attention. The tillering process will likely change all that anyway.
Start your next step!
Very well... WE RIDE!!
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I believe Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" would be appropriate music now!
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Latest update:
I cut some nocks in the bow. I used a 3/16 chainsaw file, which now after the fact may have been a smidge on the large size?
(https://s6.postimg.org/elzyel2pp/cutnock1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/elzyel2pp/)(https://s6.postimg.org/c5y50qkn1/cutnock2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c5y50qkn1/)(https://s6.postimg.org/bhpahslx9/cutnock6.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bhpahslx9/)
I then cut a piece of cord and fastened it to the nocks. I tried to make the cord snug with the board but i wasn't working out ... it is a tad loose.
I then put together this little tree and zero'd the weight on the scale so that it read 0 when the tree and bow were sitting on it. Never mind how loose the cord is in this picture.. I snugged it up a bit more before I pulled on it.
(https://s6.postimg.org/nyvy4yh31/tree.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nyvy4yh31/)
So for the first pull, I pulled downward slowly until the scale read around 23lbs and marked the string location at 15". My "target" weight for this would be ~50lbs. For the sake of getting a picture, I put a small screw at the 15" mark, attached the string and snapped the pic as fast as I could.
(https://s6.postimg.org/mvbtszwfx/firstbend.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mvbtszwfx/)
I can see the limbs are still really stiff, as most of the bending was happening closer to the tips. At this point, I am thinking if I am going to back this thing, I should do it before I round off the edges and tiller anymore?
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I've done two backed board bows, and on both I backed before I started tillering at all. The backing will likely change the tiller, so no sense in doing all that work and letting it all go to waste IMO.
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I've done two backed board bows, and on both I backed before I started tillering at all. The backing will likely change the tiller, so no sense in doing all that work and letting it all go to waste IMO.
What backing material did you use?
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I decided to use linen to back this bow before I move any further. I picked up a yard of 100% linen from the craft store, so I figure I have enough to do multiple layers or a couple bows.
Any tips on linen backing? Should I back the full length of the bow from nock to nock? One or two layers?
I will be using tb3 glue
Thanks
DA
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Nice going. I have a very similar board, though the grain might not be as good.
Good luck
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The grain looks good to me. There is no need to back it. Try to get a full sized picture up of the tiller.
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Don't force it. Try to get 10" of string movement and your target weight. Makes sure the bend is good. Look at the red oak build along on my site. Jawge
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I went ahead and backed this other bow with 2 layers of linen. One of the reasons was because of this edge run out show here
(https://s6.postimg.org/vcmv7t531/edgerun.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vcmv7t531/)
The rest of these pics are just some others from the process.
(https://s6.postimg.org/72iegfdh9/linenstrips.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/72iegfdh9/) (https://s6.postimg.org/bjarf3rp9/glueapp1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bjarf3rp9/) (https://s6.postimg.org/695snt7gd/gluedown.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/695snt7gd/) (https://s6.postimg.org/z02mdvda5/linenbackednocks.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/z02mdvda5/) (https://s6.postimg.org/83in5jugt/linenedge.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/83in5jugt/)
One of the things that I did, was I glued the strips down before rounding the edges on the back. I recall reading that it was easier to get edge coverage when you do it that way. What I ran into, was now I am not sure if I can round the edges on the back without destroying the backing?
I will try and get some pics of the tiller process. I'll start by trying to get the 10" of string movement Jawge mentioned.
DA
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2 layers may be excessive. I've not used more than one. More weight will require more energy, which will make bit less energy avail to throw the arrow. But likely not the end of the world.
Now that backing is glued down, you're not going to do harm to it as ya round edges. Be sure to make your rasping strokes from back of bow to belly. That'll further insure ya won't lift edge of backing from limb. My 2 cents.
Good luck!
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Lookin good, shouldn't have a problem with that one breaking ;)
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The reflex and deflex is piddly and beneath your attention.
I agree. I love starting with a straight, symmetrical stave, but that is not enough to go through the complicated steps of heating or steaming, and will likely resolve itself.
You are doing things right. I often go two layers on linen backs, but that, of course, depends on how thick the cloth is, etc.. I like to lay down a Titebond III sizing coat on the wood, let it get tacky, then almost saturate the cloth and lay it down, pressing it in with my hands or a roller. You are fine to trim or round the edges as you are doing.
The issue with two layers is it takes a lot more glue to hold down cloth to cloth, so the proportional weight rises. Also,if you used any glue with water in it, which is most wood glues and hideglue, give the stave a few days to lose that water before flexing it much. You want the glue good and dry, and you want the wood good and dry.