Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Limbwalker on January 31, 2017, 09:46:22 pm
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Hello all,
I have been a member here for a bit and mostly enjoy reading. I have learned a lot from you. I want to share some things and at the same time you can get to know me.
I am an ISA certified Arborist, have been for fourteen years. I've been working with all kinds of wood for a long time and have eaten my lunch at the top of the nations largest Osage tree. Pruning that thing is work. Here is the deal, I've only taken an interest in making bows for four months now and I love it. Whatever that something is, it sure gets in your blood and I doubt I will ever stop making/breaking bows.
I live in Maryland right now and I lived in Culpeper VA area for nine years in the past. So I am dealing with eastern woodlands. I like it out west too, spent a lot of time there too. For me, being an arborist gave me a good head start with making bows. I have been in the habit of identifying every tree around me for a long time and am real good at it. Tree identification as well as characteristics will save any learning bowyer time and heartache. I will quickly share with you how an arborist ID's trees. Likely the same way you already do but in case someone doesn't know. First always by the bark of the tree. I never have or will ID trees by leaves unless I draw a blank and need a hint. The reason using the bark is the way pros do it is because it's a sure bet. For instance heartwood color or growth rings can fool you, but Osage bark never grows on a Mulberry, ever. You can trust the bark. Now, the bark can vary a little but not enough to not trust it. Obviously seasons don't matter much because the bark remains. Ok so, if you need to look at the leaves, cool here is a little tip, remember MAD Horse. It stands for Maple, Ash, Dogwood and Horse Chesnut. They all have opposite branches. It may help you narrow something down. I do remember first learning and how all the bark looked the same, keep at it and you will soon be able to ID every tree around you in seconds.
It has been interesting how some woods act similar in bows as they do when felling or pruning them. Example, Black Cherry, I have seen Cherry barber chair while felling for no reason other than it's a Cherry, no vertical cracks, heavy lean or lopsided crown, which can affect felling. It just snaps under tension. Sometimes. Black Cherry reminds me of a strong teenager, but has a habit of making stupid impulsive decions and breaks its own back :) reign the cherry in and he can accommodate nicely. Black Locust reminds me of a real strong hardened and wise old man. He will teach you everything, but slow down! The old man needs to stretch first, he's a little stiff. Osage could be a number of people, is he humble or cocky cause he's so good at everything? You decide. Seriously though Osage is a wood you just can't find in most any other wood. It's true.
With that said, I have seen threads where people debate if Osage is king or not. Here is what I think. I mean no disrespect to anyone I'm not saying anything bad about anyone. I think, possibly people get tired of the answer being 'Osage'. I think they want to maybe hear something different. Yes the best wood for your project would be... you guessed it. I really appreciate Hedge, I really do (see I even get tired of saying Osage) and I like a lot of other wood too. I get both sides, for the experienced bowyer that has done it all, he knows he can rely on Osage and is just done with experimentation. I understand Osage is the most durable wood. It just is IMO. I used to live on a four hundred acre farm that was a confederate hospital during the Civel War and Hedge fence post were still in some pastures.
A word on rot resistance. Hedge wins but how do others stack up? Black Locust is right up there with excellent rot resistance, Mulberry as well, ERC (Juniper) WRC stack up pretty good too. What about Oak? Well, there are over six hundred different kinds of Oaks out there. I was at an arboretum that had just over four hundred different Oaks growing there, impressive. In the East you can kinda devide red and white. Red Oak actually has pretty poor rot resistance in the heartwood and White Oak has very decent rot resistance. White oak has a bit higher tensile strength too. Oaks can be fickle though. They suffer from something called sudden limb drop. When a limb or large Liter fails for no apparent reason. Once I was in a red oak standing on a five inch limb a foot from the crotch and it gave out suddenly. I have gotten called to an emergency when a massive majestic white oak split in half and fell on a house. No wind, no rot, no cracks, it just gave. Meanwhile an elm limb hangs by a thread next door for years. The ways of wood. I will never stop learning from it. I like oak for bows as well. I'm only speaking about the eastern U.S. right now and not including exotic or other woods. One last thing for Oaks, you can put scarlet, black, chestnut, pin, willow and a bunch more kinda in the red catagory, meanwhile your swamp Oaks can go in white. Sort of. You can tell by the bark. White Oaks have a lighter flakier bark. I prefer chasing a ring on a white oak. It just barley lies near the line of a rot resistance heart wood.
Also, if I have said something wrong let me know. Oh, a quick thing about Mulberries. So Red, Black and white and so on. Here is the deal. Unfortunately White is easier to find. It is from China. It is silk productions number one tree. I think people have so many mixed opinions on Mulberry because some of you are using white and some red. Red Mulberry is native here in the U.S. That doesn't mean when you find a Mulberry in your yard it's a red, in fact it's probably white or a hybrid. That's why white is classified as invasive. It's stomping out and watering down, good old real USA Mulberry. Remember the settlers used the same trees we use, that's partly why I love all wood bows. You can read a book about bowyers from the 1800 hundreds and that knowledge still applies. Believe it or not, for hunting a lot of guys chose to take their Mulberry bow instead of their Osage bows. Osage was still king the best to them, might have been for a literally lighter bow, not draw weight. For me, Red Mulberry is an awesome bow wood. White Mulberry tends to grow more like a tree and red more like Osage. Red Mulberry is extremely heavy when green. When seasoned lighter than Osage. I have a feeling a lot of guys here have been using white Mulberry. Unfortunately red Mulberry is becoming almost rare. I think you will know it if you make a bow from true red. Yes white can make a good bow. To me, it should stick with silk and I want the red gnarly stuff. It's not as simple as red has red/black berries and white has white. Some don't even produce berries. Tip, red have duller leaves and fuzzy bottoms, white have shinier smooth leaves. This instance the bark can be hard to tell, but they are different. BTW some of the articles online are so off it is annoying. Ask me and I can send you verified data from ANSI and ISA. You see native trees are meant to be here. People often look up to identify a problem with the tree when they should be looking down.
Looking Down. A quick overview of tree variation. Sunlight and water are important. Partial sun possibly. Soil PH is very important. PH alone can cause you to wonder why the black Locust you got in VA seems to be much better quality than the stuff you have in your western state. I've seen jawge go on about the cambium is the only living part of a tree! Good job jawge, your pretty much right on. The cambium is where the xylem and the phloem are. The cambium layer (inner bark) is a two way highway. One carries nutrients up the other down. Up from the soil, minerals water and such, down from photosynthesis, water and such. That's why if you score the tree through the cambium around its circumference, it kills it. Why do I say this? Girdling roots. Trees are almost alway planted too low. Piling mulch around the base like a volcano in the worst idea. Never cover the root collar(flare). Trees with too much debris around the root flare are way more prone to girding roots which cut eventually cut off the circulation or partially of the tree. These things affect your staves. Oh, of course Osage thrives in almost any soil condition. Another example of it extreme resilience.
I probably have said too much and text barley said what I wanted to say. Unfortunately I can only touch on a few bow woods, but I enjoy a decent variety of woods. I'm working on an experiment. I walked into the woods and picked three trees I could see. So far it's light and snappy and smooth. Mulberry belly, cherry core, Black Locust Back. Let you know when I mess it up. I have a bunch of bows I'm making right now, won't bore you though.
One last thought. I like Osage, but I get tired of Osage always being the answer sometimes. I enjoy working with the wood in my woods. I like know I can walk outside and make a real good tool/weapon with the wood I have available. There are a few woods I left out that I really like, but I will save it for later. I can also see experienced guys possibly feeling like white woods are for beginners and boring? For me there is a much deeper relationship with your bow when you work it down to the heartwood. The heartwood is more mature and seasoned even when it sits dead in a live tree. But white woods don't have good heartwood. It's amazing, climb a dead hickory and it just dicinigrates beneath you, when just a couple weeks earlier it was the strongest tree in the woods. Here in the east Black Locust, Mulberry, Osage, some junipers. I include white oak, cherry and Sweet Birch on my heartwood list, though many might disagree it's the way I see it. I also have really enjoyed Hickory, Ash, Hornbeam, Hackberries and Bamboo(backings it's easy for me to find it growing). I've only stared with staves, even with lams. I can't comment on board bows. I do know the best boards go to furniture makers and boards for general construction and decking decking are the lowest quality wood. I'm not knocking using them. I feel like I need to source my own wood and pick the best for my bows, that's all. The source of your bow wood is half the bow in my mind. I don't think I'm right about anything. I'm just giving my limited perspective on bow woods. I'm sure my perspective will change along the way too. I'm all about it. I'm always open to new ideas.
Guys who have trouble finding Osage in your state. I find it easily where I am. No it's probably not going to be right outside, but with a little hard work and reasearch you can find pockets where it still grows in the wild. It was planted in all 48 states and widely used. It's a hearty plant. Learn to recognize it and look. It can be hard to get a head start, but once you do, you will be making local Osage bows. If anyone ever asks where you got it, don't tell them. It takes work to find these pockets and they will blow your spot. I have friends in the tree business as well, that can help. I assure you they are there. I drive 30 min and Im good. Ask anyone else and they'll tell you Bodark don't grow in Maryland. Best let them believe that too. Or you can buy it.
Cheers,
Johny
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Very nice exposition, Johny.
I've worked just about all the common bow woods and one or 2 not so common ones.
Hickory, at least as far as I can remember back, is the only where I can take a long sliver about an 1/8 inch thick and try to bend and break it in half. It will not break.
Comment please.
Jawge
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Thanks for that. I am working on my bark ID skills. I have an acre of Shagbark Hickory, Hackberry, Black Locust, White Oak and Juniper in my yard. But I have a friend with 110 acres that has a lot of Osage growing on it. Will be looking for staves out there very soon
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Wow. Welcome to PA, Johny.
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Thank you for that and welcome to PA
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Great to have you on board Johnny. I would be interested in reading more of what you have learned
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Welcome to PA.A very rewarding profession you are in I would say.Read your whole statement.Good advice overall on ID of woods.It's a common question on here.Especially too about replanting trees.Mulch a donut around it not a volcano.
Hope to see bows from you on here soon.
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Thanks, Limbwalker.
I am not a licensed arborist, but I do work on trees (basically my third job). I was two years into a botany degree when I switched to healthcare, and I worked for an arborist for two years, and I was a landscaper befor e that for years.. It's how I out myself through school, so I kept the saws and rigging and dumptruck, and now usually do only whatever work finds me.
I know a lot, but I really respect what a real tree-man knows. I wish I knew more about diseases or tree health, as I'm mostly just a crown reduction/removal guy. I read everything you said, but I'll do so again.
I live in an osage desert here in Utah, but I have found it. The quality was ridiculously good, as it grew along a ditch between farmer's fields. It was dark, so dark orange, hard, heavy and beautiful. Unfortunately, the place was developed before I tracked down the owner, so I only managed to steal a couple of small saplings from a vacant -lot. So, yeah, get it early. I can't afford to buy it.
There is some in a park near that, but it is a row of HUGE twisted, branch tres you'd have a hell of a time even finding billets on. But their trunks are as big around as a shed, and they are thorny like crazy.
Tree work is a great way to get wood. Most of it is junk, of course, for bows, but one big black locust might give me 10 staves. And I LOVE white mulberry. I love red, too, but fruitless white is widely planted here and trunks make ok bows. But what I really love is when some idiot before me "topped" the heck out of one and a bunch of long, straight, lumpy suckers grew up. At 4" across they make wonderful character staves, and I treat them like elm saplings. I have finished every single white mulberry bow I've made if I had a good stave. I also end up with a ton of yellow locust, apple, pear, occasionally plum, ash, elm (mostly the red elms, not the best for bows), sycamore, Gambles oak, some maple, occasionally hazel, red cedar, etc.. spotty, but it builds up. 75% of the trees I work on are probably cottonwoods, poplars, and globe willow.
Anyway, much respect. I love trees, I love wood, I love working outside (keeps me a little fit), and I love bows. You da man.
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Welcome Limbwalker. Quite a large piece of info you shared for your first post. I'll sock the knowledge away for later reference. You mentioned Culpepper, VA. A goodly part of my family are from that little town. In fact a few decades back I even worked summers there doing wood chucking to pay for college. Hard way to make a life to be certain. Wood chucking a far ways from being an actual certified arborist though. :) We wouldn't have known how to use the right equipment or tools if we'd had them to be honest. I learned a good bit during those few summers none the less. If you keep your mouth shut and your ears open, sometimes you'll learn a thing or two if you're not real careful to avoid it.
I recall finding a heck of a lot of Crepe Myrtles growing in a line out by Mountain Run Lake a few years back when I was visiting. They were perfectly straight and long poles with very few limbs or branches sticking off of them. I think they must've been planted and forgotten because I don't think they grow native to Northern VA. I always meant to go back and harvest a few to try them out, but have yet to do so...
OneBow
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OneBow
I really like Culpeper area. I most definitely prefer being out in the woods. I had a farm with a horse operation on it. I grew up in Rockville area. I like visiting cities, but no longer wish to make them my home. Lots of Crepe Myrtles, they are not native to the U.S. Although they are known to be a southern tree. I think they were first brought to George Washington's estate late 1700's. I think. You should give them a try if you have the desire. The wood seems hard, I am not sure how a seasoned piece would act, you can make a bow out of any wood and it might look cool. Sometimes the grain can have a Curly Maple effect. I once pruned a huge Myrtle in DC. This thing was one stem and was 38" DBH (Diameter at Breast Height) nice to meet you One Bow.
Howdy Springbuck
Man, tree work is hard work. Much respect, good climbers are worth their weight in gold. Hey if you want to learn more about diseases and such, I have two ISA certified copies of the study guide for the test. I have to dig them up, but I can send you one if you want. I don't need them and they have knowledge in them. I'd rather someone get that info. Yeah mulberries are interesting, the wood properties don't seem consistent to me. Sounds like you have found a nice stash. The main thing I can tell from Mulberry is the white seems really soft when working it. The red is more rare is really hard. I've heard of people making good bows from both. Red Mulberry trees don't grow out west, they may be a few, can't rule it out but they don't grow well out there. They extend from east coast to Midwest. You have Black Mulberries though, I think they came from Iran and like the west and desert conditions. White is considered a hard wood, but is real soft as a sapling and gets harder as it matures. White male Mulberry is the fruitless kind. If I'm remembering right. There is bad info out there ranging all over the place. There is good info too. It's interesting though and I'm just glad you found some you like to make bows with. Great to meet you, yes I still climb a lot and it sure does keep you fit. Climbers are a certain breed, I hear you on being outdoors, I'm outside all the time, except making bows lol.
Justsomedude
That's great you have been practicing your skills. Sounds like you have a bunch of wood to use. I remembered I would just pick one or two trees a week to learn by their bark and every where I went I looked at the trees around me. It takes time and hey one more tree to the list is one more. Sounds like you already are on your way. I know you probably already know this, but for someone that may not, when using the bark, it often changes as the tree matures. I will use black Locust, it looks very similar old vs young but the ridges are not pronounced as much on saplings. When in doubt, looking at new growth on an older tree can identify saplings. Not sure if I said that right. Have you ever noticed on some Black Locust that the have rings of thorns on the sapling trunks and some don't? This can throw some people off. Well here is my theory after much thought, the ones with thorns are giant suckers that have just gotten huge. A BL sapling vs giant sucker will have more heartwood in it. The suckers often grow from a stump and the bark can have a little more orange tint and be flatter. All the same tree just little differences. Any that's a theory about the black Locust suckers, but my research is pointing toward that. Great to meet you and good luck stave hunting.
I have already been helped by all of you here on PA and am real grateful I found this place, I am definitely going to need a lot of help on some bows I'm making and reall appreciate people's willingness to help. I said before I'm new to bows, been doing it for only four months. Yeah George, hickory hangs on until the last thread. I'm not sure you can snap it only hinge it maybe. I have some real nice hickory I don't need if anyone wants some. It's not seasoned but has been drying unwarped, has no knots and straight.
Question, is the difference between seasoned wood and dry wood, that seasoned wood is done with all changes. Meaning done warping etc. for instance my guitar was made from seasoned wood. It may swell or shrink a little from humidity changes, but it is 35 years old and doesn't change. So my question is, with dry wood that is not seasoned, can still suddenly go out of whack? Because the minerals/oils are not done selling in their permanent spot.
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I know you probably already know this, but for someone that may not, when using the bark, it often changes as the tree matures.
Yes, that will come with experience. Just today I was looking more closely at saplings and realized I had a bunch of straight Pignut. Shagbark is also hard for me to be sure about unless I find the sapling right next to a mature tree.
This website has been helpful: http://www.treebarkid.com/index.php/general-bark-id-key (http://www.treebarkid.com/index.php/general-bark-id-key)
And much respect to you as an arborist! I have a NewTribe Saddle for hunting as well as some improvised DIY gear. Climbing is hard work (and fun)
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Limbwalker... Yeah, ornamental fruitless white is what I usually see around here in yards. Some of the others which I assumed were reds MAY be the black mulberry. We do get reds, but again, imported for yard trees and you don''t see em much. They grow really branchy and scrubby when they do. They don't spread much by way of bird droppings. They don't grow outside of watered lawn or near ditches in Utah, and the summer sun and dryness seems hard on them. I've cut some, and bought some, but the reds I cut myself came from Oregon, not Utah.
When I use red mulberry, I chase a ring and treat it like lighter weight osage, or something. It's not so stiff like black locust, but those are my two favorite woods I have any real experience with. The sucker branches of the white when I get them, I treat light elm and use the sapwood. I've never made a bow from a white mulberry trunk of any real size. When the suckers or saplings are small, they are all strings and shreds, and you can barely saw them without shredding the end, but by 4" diameter, they are indeed hardening up.
I'm coming up on 50 years old soon, so I may pass of trying to get further certified. If I can get my two oldest girls off to college, I might take a year to get an Diagnostic Ultrasound card in my pocket instead. But ,I'll miss it after working it part time for almost 20 years.
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Limbwalker - very well done essay, insightful and a heck of an introduction. Kudos.
There's a few of us here that have done woods working, tree trimming, or even ecology and/or forestry. I fall in the last category. There's a lot of experience on these pages and in the heads of the grey beards, middle-agers, and young-uns.
Some of the bows I've seen relative newcomers to the bow building community are simply stunning. A lot of us were and still are happy as heck when we get a bow made that doesn't break or take a set.
I used to cut my own wood, split it, you know the drill. Not so much any more. But I still enjoy the simple pleasure of making my own bows from other people's wood.
Adding a bit of information to your well written essay, I've found the specific gravity of the wood, as determined by scientists and published in a variety of sources, is a good indicator of the woods likely suitability for wood bows. Tim Baker, if I recall correctly did a write up on it in the late 90s. See the following: www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/rn/rn_nrs38.pdf , yes my computer skills are minimal, not unlike my bow building.
Again, welcome to Primitive Archer fellowship.
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Thanks for your greetings and the information. Very helpful for me Gifford :) I want you all to know I don't think I know much about making great bows or archery for that matter. I do understand there is a great wealth of information here too. It has helped me so much as I am beginning to understand bows. I apologise if I came off the wrong way. I wanted to share some thoughts on wood really. For guys/gals that might find it helpful. I cut wood all day everyday that's all. I have lots of experience working with wood, tension and compression in a different way, such as a tree leaning on a house. Those situations do help me understand how certain species tend to act, but then sometimes the strongest fail and the weaker hang on. I haven't made a lot of bows. I have only made four which I gave away to different nephews. They all came in too light. I broke two so far. I made a real cool trilam I gave to someone for Christmas. Glue ups come easy to me only because I've done it with other things mainly electric guitars. The bow I'm doing now has been changing a lot because of what the wood wants to do and is capable of.
I don't really know why making bows is calming throughput the process, but it is for me. I suspect a lot of people feel that way. Springbuck, getting your kids off to collage sounds like a great plan. You don't need a liscence anyway. It only helps in certain situations anyway. Usually selling for a large company or supervising the trees on a collage campus etc. I worked for a large company for ten years, I was bucket operator, climber, foreman. With another climber and ground man. I slowly got tired of that company and they would ask more of my time providing no advantage for me or my kids. I resigned and just work for myself now. I work on trees a couple days, no fancy chippers and stuff. I just climb and bring a ground man. Then there is a production company I started a couple years ago, which feeds my creative side and now bows take a lot of my time. I'm 35 and my son is heading off to collage next year, yikes! Happens quick. That's awesome if you can find the red Mulberry tree out there, there hard to find here. I can only find them in the woods. Never have found one on a fence or anything like that. they have huge leaves 5-10 inches, never would have thought it grew out there, pretty neat.
Was wondering if anyone has ever used a mortise and tenon joint for splicing billets? I know it's strong, virtually a take down bow but permanent. I was going to make the tenon a little longer than the mortise so I could add a ring of bone or something in the handle. I don't know if that makes sense. Anyone do that and have success?
Thank you guys your thoughts and the information, much appreciated
(EDIT)
Speaking of bow wood, I went out today to scope out a nearby Osage location. I found about 70 very large and tall Osage trees (some with several litres, *liters = a codominant trunk) a few 6"~9" diameter and a dozen or so saplings. I did not bring a saw because just checking it out. I do not have authorzation to start dropping trees left and right lol, or I would. This is where being an "arborist" can help springbuck. As I always told the crew, if anyone asks, we're all arborist lol. Anyway there were four of them that had fallen from storm damage over past two years and two with the tops blown out. This is park land so I offered to "clean up" some of the damaged trees for the wood. Looks like a go. If this works out I'm happy to share with fellow people here in our neck of the woods. I know finding good Osage is easy for some harder for me, but I kinda enjoy having to hunt it dow. It's a treat. Will update and if anyone wants to bring a saw you can load yourself up, I will help you load up too, you know what I mean. If someone can't drive I am willing to send something just not the shipping fee. I don't want anything. I have a lot of wood, been collecting so I will have some wood for years. Im green at bow making, but I'm real good at reading and picking good staves. Not bragging just true lol. I got lots of hickory, BL, Sweet Birch. One of the downed trees is completely alive, the root ball fully intact and it looks nice. Vibrant colours, not too tanglely, no bores in dead or live limbs, was over three feet in diameter at the trunk. Might even stand back up, but if it does it's coming right back down lol. Knowing parks probably be a month, maybe two.
As I was leaving I grabbed a ~ 8" by 74" log that someone cut last year. Gonna split it in a minute. Not expecting anything, but it is solid no bores at all, I saw plenty deadwood with bores. The funny thing was I took the train into the city, so I carried that heavy thing for a few miles, people staring at me and laughing on the train, wondering why this dude is carrying a log all over town. Going down the escalators, almost tripped. Pretty big log, I will measure, I'm 6' and it's taller, well was fun. Anyway going to see what's in it.
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Was wondering if anyone has ever used a mortis and tenon joint for splicing billets? I know it's strong, virtually a take down bow but permanent. I was going to make the tenon a little longer so I could add a ring of bone or something in the handle. I don't know if that makes sense. Anyone do that and have success?
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Limbwalker - That question comes up now and then here, ...generally from guys with cabinet maker or fine furniture experience. The answer is that it could possibly be done, ...but it likely would not be very practical or smart. Mortise and tenon joints can be quite strong to be sure, but are not the sort of joinery generally needed for a bowyers work. Since the joint would need to be in the handle section of the bow, it would have to be small enough in circumference to work as a handle. When you get down to that size, especially for a long or deep mortise and tenon joint, you've not got much wood left to be doing the work.
Add to that a consideration for the nature of the strength of a M&T joint. It's an excellent joint for load bearing and holding the jointed parts firmly in the established orientation. They are not so very strong when used to join two working pieces that are under shearing stress. For that you need the most amount of gluing surface area possible to fit in your design. Most guys use either a Z or W joint. Some prefer a V joint that they then back with a thin hardwood lamination or sponsor with a sinew or silk wrap saturated in a quality glue. There are several techniques and tips on this site for how to get these joint cut and well fitted to each other. I have also seen a plain scarf cut joint used inside of a metal piece of pipe much like a take down bow, but permanently epoxied into the pipe. Hope these ideas help. I am sure a well made mortise and tenon joint could be designed to work for a lower weight bow, ...but I'd be very disinclined to use one for a hunting weight bow.
OneBow
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Limbwalker, welcome to PA. Thank you for sharing your insight and observations. I'm sure we're going to see some nice bows from you in the future. I really find bow making relaxing also. I've always enjoyed making stuff. Making a bow and arrows is somehow different though. For me it becomes a close relationship with the stave and it's like bringing it a new life. I think your gonna like it here
Bjrogg
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Welcome to PA, Limbwalker. Your knowledge of trees is welcomed here and it will be good to have an "expert" in our midst. We all try to ID trees others have found on their search for good bow wood. I'm pretty good at ID-ing trees as are a few others here but now we have our own resident tree expert.
Looking forward to seeing some of your bow work.
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Limbwalker, (BTW, I almost named my business "Limbwalker Tree Service", but went with "Neighborhood Tree Service". I absolutely believe tree work helps you understand wood and trees. What you do is dynamic, where most wood uses are static or nearly so (like in construction). You know a lot about reaction wood, what weight distribution and tension do, how and why things break, what a vertically growing vs horizontal or diagonal limb does. I learned specifically how these things affact how wood warps as it dries, what lopsided growth rings and oval cross sections mean, how to split certain woods, which carry spiral grain, etc.. It has helped me.
If we find red mulberries around here, someone put them here. Same with most of the yard trees that then go wild. Even the American native thorny plum is an import into the Mountain West. And BL, etc. My choice of species for bows would be pretty limited here if I didn't work on domestic trees.
I'm jealous of the osage. Haven't found any more I could possibly get to after they cleared that ditch row. I did the same thing about just claiming wood once when they cleared a HUGE lot in the middle of of a suburb for development. They bulldozed HUNDREDS of black locusts, elms, and scrub oaks into a pile, some 28" diameter trunks. I just walked up and informed the guysdoing the grading I was going to take some wood from the pile, in my "official-looking "dump truck, walked up with my Husky 372, and walked off 3 hours later with more than I could ever work.
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Thanks everyone for your replies, I'm looking forward to all the ways you all can help me and if there is anything I can do for someone else. Thanks Onebow, that makes sense to me. I was hoping it might work, I have never done a Z or W joint. I will look into how to set prepare the wood for the joint. Is hunting weight #50 and up? Out of that old log I split last night I got two pieces out of in 3' long. I'm going to try to join them and make a 64" bow. It will be good practice anyway, probably screw it up. If I succeed, I was going to add a thin bamboo back.the grain is very twisted on the pieces. Thanks again for your help and information.
Thanks springbuck, that's great you got all that wood. I really like messing with black locust so far. I hope in the future to make some good bows from that wood. I need a technique for splitting twisted grain on wood that is straight. I've just been winging it, do you have any tips on getting a better split on that? Osage and black locust have been the most twisted for me. That's good you get get to work on domestic trees, I bet you run into all kinds of wood. Is it very humid in Uatah I would image not too much, but never know. Man you got a dump truck, I wish I had one. Must be nice hauling logs or anything for that matter. It's too bad I wasn't into this before, I think about all the great bow wood that I put through a chipper. You mentioned Plum, I can remember chipping many potential plum staves. Ignorance on my part. You mentioned Husky's, they are my chainsaw of choice. For me, you can't beat them. Stihl makes a great saw and their climbing saws are a bit more powerful than the huskys, but I still would take a husky. One pull, winter, summer doesn't matter. I'll use anything though, I've got a little Poulenc that works well. I have an old 44 Stilhl, it's a beast, love that one. I guess you don't run into Osage too often out there? I don't like buying wood since I'm around it all the time, but if I had to I would. I'm happy to any wood I have or get. Do you run into Hickory? Black locust is by far the easiest wood for me to get, it's absolutely everywhere.
Thanks Pat B and Bjrogg.
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Limbwalker,
Welcome aboard. I just refreshed a lot of knowledge about trees and wood that went dormant over the years, a very healthy discourse from everyone with a lot of regional knowledge. Personally, I will have to keep my feet on the ground to get my wood, I don't bounce very well anymore😀😢. Ok, so I am just reentering the primitive skills as far as bows are concerned, but I believe you got to learn something new every day or refresh 2 things you have let go stale. This site is great for that - Thanks to all who contribute!
Hawkdancer
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Straight trees that grow in a twist will always follow the grain and twist when split. Best to leave them for the woodland critters and find untwisted trees for bow wood.
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welcome... "MAD Box" is something my students enjoyed when learning tree ID here in Arkansas, but we used it for Maple, Ash, Dogwood... and separated out Boxelder as the fourth species, even though it is a subspecies. :)
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Bob - subspecies? :) Acer negundo boxelder. Aceracea Acer negundo L.
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Limbwalker-
welcome to the forum and as for spitting techniques, I agree with Pat B in that spiraled grain is best avoided, though it seems like some species split along the grain well, and others seem to have the splits run-out easier as if there is not a strong propensity to follow the grain. Sometimes a straight saw cut down one side of the log or stave helps with further splitting in the latter.
Perhaps your tree experience gives some insight into why you find some trees spiral and others don't. I know that with some species, the spiraling is not evident from the bark, and staves go in the woodpile.
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Thanks guys, I split an Osage "log" it was 4.5" by 61" long. It was a little tree I found today. Good straight grain and haven't found any knots yet, have not yet taken sapwood and bark off yet though. There are no indications of knots yet, but I expect something. It has nice thick rings and good late wood. I was confident in the sraightness in the bark so I quartered it and it worked out. The log had a bow shaped profile to it by the way it grew.
My thought was since the grain is straight, straight for Osage anyway that I could take the bow out of the staves. I have read other threads on how to do this and have bent a couple other bows before, but this is the most extreme. Since they are green, I need some help on the best way to do this. I will add a picture just as soon as I figure that out, any and all advice is much appreciated.
Nice one Bob Barnes, didn't know that. Is Boxelder part of the Mulberry species? Thought it was. In any case not a good bow wood. I think I read that English Boxwood makes a decent bow, totally different plant I know.
Hawkdancer, your right about learning. I do my best to keep things agitated in my brain. It's impossible to not let some things slip into the cracks though. You make a good point. I would think the ground is where you want to be for fetching bow wood. I don't hear many people using limbs, but I know it can work. I will hazard a guess; it seems that limbs experience more compression and tension compared to trunk wood, leading to possibly more stored energy in the limbwood, but sometimes I find trucks growing at steep angles chasing the sun. That topic is something I need to find out more about. I'm all about learning. If I'm not working I'm home making something or reading. I miss my farm. After my wife died I couldn't manage it anymore and sold the horses and moved on. I'm not used to not have if something to fix all the time. I'm confident in skills I do have, but that in now way means I know it all, not even close.
. Anyway will post a picture so anyone that wants to can help me out thanks.
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Nice one Bob Barnes, didn't know that. Is Boxelder part of the Mulberry species? Thought it was.
Box Elder is Manitoba Maple.