Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: SMeeres3030 on February 07, 2017, 08:53:03 am

Title: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 07, 2017, 08:53:03 am
Hi guys I was on the final sanding and tiller tweak stage and was just shooting in this yew bow. 63"ntn 58# @ 30. So almost exactly where I like it but I heard a tick and checked it and seen a crack horizontal . It seem superficial like one ring  so I am wondering if I should just sand it out? Or put a rawhide bandaid over it or even rAwhide back it?
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: Pat B on February 07, 2017, 08:56:43 am
Looks like you will have to go below that crack to save the bow. It will reduce the weight though.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 07, 2017, 09:47:06 am
Can I just scrap and sand below or would I have to back it after as well?
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: Pappy on February 07, 2017, 09:55:11 am
You can try to scrape or sand out and that may work if it really only went 1 ring down, you are asking quite a lot with 30 inch draw at only 63 n-n to begin with, hope it works out but looks like a death sentence to me. Where on the limb is the crack ?
 Pappy
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: Springbuck on February 07, 2017, 10:06:16 am
Good luck.  I wish I was more familiar with yew, but I don't like the looks of it.  The crack is so cleanly transverse and right there at the knot.  You don't lose anything but time trying to fix it, I guess.  Bowyers work down sapwood on yew all the time, so it seems like you could take the whole ring down, but that's only if you can see the ring well enough to do it.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 07, 2017, 10:09:27 am
It is not in the best spot. Almost mid limb so I'm not too hopeful for it. But I'll give it a try, I might safety it up with a rAwhide patch as well.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: PatM on February 07, 2017, 10:16:15 am
The stresses that caused it will be there to an even greater degree if your try to scrape below it.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: DC on February 07, 2017, 10:42:30 am
Take a look though Dels site. I long thin patch might work. Like Pappy said you're asking a lot.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: wizardgoat on February 07, 2017, 12:08:07 pm
It looks like a thin spot there, did you take any photos braced or drawn before this happened?
Could be my phone, is that on the back of the bow? If so, she's firewood
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 07, 2017, 03:42:19 pm
I usually try to be positive about saving a bow,, but I agree , the main problem is that you were asking alot to go 30 inches at nearly 60# with 63 inch bow,,,,, you just increase your odds of failure as you push the limits,, if it was my bow and I was determined to save it,, I would reduce the weight of the bow( to 45 or 50) leaving that spot stiffer,, and put a heavy sinew wrap to stiffen it up even more there,, and the guys that think its firewood might have a point for sure,, 
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: stuckinthemud on February 07, 2017, 03:51:45 pm
Any thoughts on digging out the knot? It could be a stress raiser?
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: Hamish on February 07, 2017, 07:20:04 pm
Next time you make a bow with a large knot like that you should leave a swelling of extra wood around the knot(widening the back at that point).Treat the knot as if it were a hole in the wood, because they have such little tension strength.
 Sounds like you did a pretty good job of getting the most out of the stave, with such a long draw.
Yew is excellent stuff, and will tolerate more violation/flaws than most woods, yet it will still break if pushed too far.
 Sure you could try and save it, but because of the inherent deficiency of not compensationg enough for the knot, I think you will have a hard time saving it.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 07, 2017, 07:38:07 pm
So it might work to rAwhide wrap it and decrease weight.? Thanks guys for all your advice. Much appreciated. I know 63" is pushing it but carrying a bow any longer than that in our dense brush hunting is a huge pain.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 07, 2017, 07:46:18 pm
If there's a fix that will work it's on Del's site, but since it's on the back and mid limb, I'd be amazed if it survives.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 07, 2017, 09:14:42 pm
Forgive my ignorance but what is dels site?
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: osage outlaw on February 07, 2017, 09:18:10 pm
https://sites.google.com/site/delsbows/
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: Joec123able on February 07, 2017, 09:21:24 pm
I'd honestly call it fire wood myself.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: DC on February 07, 2017, 09:39:11 pm
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.ca/
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 07, 2017, 09:47:07 pm
ok I understand you dont want to carry a longer bow,, so just dont draw it so far,, :)
I dont think rawhide will help,,, thick sinew maybe,,
on your next one,, sinew back it and it will go 30 easy,,
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: Weylin on February 08, 2017, 12:28:24 am
If that were mine, I wouldn't draw that bow again. I think it's done for. Sounds like you were asking too much from it. Carrying a longer bow isn't that bad. I hunt elk in the coast range of oregon which is about as thick, jungley and steep as you get. I often use a 68" bow and never really have any problems with it.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: Del the cat on February 08, 2017, 03:19:52 am
IMO, you should consider it a write off... BUT, then try to do a repair.
I think the safest way is to rasp out a long shallow scoop until all the crack has gone and the face of the knot too (yes I know you'll loose the character knot :-X ) And then glue in a long thin matched patch of sapwood.
Heres a patch I did recently, it is smaller the the idea is the same:-
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/two-part-knot-patch.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/two-part-knot-patch.html)
Del
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: DuBois on February 08, 2017, 07:50:54 am
I'd chase down a ring and practice getting around that knot gently, then pike it down to 58", reflex the tips a bit, and if it has a decent back I would do a couple layers sinew with a even and weighed amount per limb. Tie it into reflex, leave it alone for 2 months and start something else.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 08, 2017, 09:18:26 am
That looks pretty bad. I would not trust it.
The stave is too short for the draw. It is also pretty heavily crowned and should have been a little longer anyway.
Also, there does not seem to be enough wood left around the knot.
Sorry.
Jawge
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: DuBois on February 08, 2017, 06:51:02 pm
Could you post a picture of the entire bow?
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: ty_in_ND on February 08, 2017, 07:27:43 pm
So... I know people have been saying 63" ntn is too short for a 30" draw (without something like a sinew backing).  I know this would be true for a stiff handled bow, but how about a bend through the handle bow?  I don't know if SMeeres made the bow with a static handle or not (he didn't say and we haven't seen a pic of the bow yet), but if you follow the advice of your draw length doubled for a bendy handle bow, wouldn't 63" be an acceptable length for a 30' draw?

Just curious!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 08, 2017, 08:52:54 pm
Hi guys sorry I didn't give much info. 63" ntn 58#@ 30" and slicingt recover tips and stiff handle I did super glue the crack and it's not makin any noise and drawing to 26-27"
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 08, 2017, 08:54:57 pm
Sorry those pictures are crap I'll try again
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 08, 2017, 09:00:19 pm
Hopefully these are higher res
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 08, 2017, 09:02:45 pm
Sorry some are very stretched
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: aaron on February 09, 2017, 12:08:53 pm
Ty- yes you could do a 30 inch draw bow from a 63 inch stave, especially with a low crown and kinda wide- with perfect tiller, sinew and flawless wood, you could go down to 60 or less.

Smeeres- I would not draw that bow. the tiller still looks good, but that crack makes me wince when I see it. wear a helmet and cup!
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: DuBois on February 09, 2017, 12:28:23 pm
I'd chase down a ring and practice getting around that knot gently, then pike it down to 58", reflex the tips a bit, and if it has a decent back I would do a couple layers sinew with a even and weighed amount per limb. Tie it into reflex, leave it alone for 2 months and start something else.

But then again, maybe it is just a goner  :-[
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: HighEagle on February 12, 2017, 03:28:48 pm
Did she blow? Up date please
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 12, 2017, 03:57:27 pm
+1 :)
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 13, 2017, 12:15:08 pm
Hi guys sorry I scraped it out. Only one ring, sanded to blend in and now have a rawhide patch on it just drying and waiting for glue to set.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 13, 2017, 08:01:50 pm
So there it is guys! Pretty much finished. 63" non 49# @ 27" (kinda nervous going more after first experience.) antler tip overlays and antler base arrow rest. Rawhide bandaid over crack after it was sanded out.matching rawhide on bottom limb just to make it even. Very happy with how it's tuned out especially after the first crack!
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 13, 2017, 08:05:50 pm
Full draw
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: aaron on February 13, 2017, 08:12:33 pm
beautiful bow, man, and nice save!. You could gain some speed by reducing the tips. Anything past where the string sits is cosmetic.I like the arrow pass- how is the antler attached?
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 13, 2017, 08:16:51 pm
Sorry the pic shows the tips very wide the are just hair over 3/8 and the arrow rest is just glued! I was thinking of putting some brass pins in but I'll wait till it comes off maybe one day.
Title: Re: Small crack around knot
Post by: SMeeres3030 on February 13, 2017, 08:19:12 pm
I don't know how the pictures look to you guys but having to reduce them do much makes them look bad on my phone just curious if they look bad to you guys as well