Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: k-hat on March 22, 2017, 10:03:21 am

Title: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: k-hat on March 22, 2017, 10:03:21 am
Finally got  to do some bowmaking again, been awhile.  A friend wanted a bow for her son's 18th birthday, and we decided, given his interests, to go with something in the ELB style.  I took some cues from Marc and his Elm ELB.  I think it really is more reflective of a Welsh Longbow.

"They are made neither of horn, ash nor yew, but of elm; ugly unfinished-looking weapons, but astonishingly stiff, large and strong, and equally capable of use for long or short shooting".  -Gerald of Wales, 12th century

Well, this one is certainly not "unfinished" or ugly, but a simple elm longbow nonetheless.  I kept her lightweight for the archer noob so she'd be plenty of fun to play with and would be a good "starter" if he really gets into it.  Kept the handle stiff for the lighter weight bow, limbs start out with a D cross section that gets a little more rectangular past the middle, then pyramidal at the stiff tips.  Inlaid leather arrow pass, just to try something new and keep the look clean and simple.  Had to be inventive to get that circular cut on a half inch diameter piece of leather.  A well-toasted belly to keep string-follow at a minimum. Light Walnut stain to bring out the grain (specifically requested by the mom, otherwise I'da left her plain), about 6 coats of Deft to finish.  String silencers are rabbit I think. Smooth draw, sweet shoot'n, and plenty of zip!  Ok stats and pics:

70" ttt, 68" ntn, self-nocks
30#@28", a hair under 35 @ 30"

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow01.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow01.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow02.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow02.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow03.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow03.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow04.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow04.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow05.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow05.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow06.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow06.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow08.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow08.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow09.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow09.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow07.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow07.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow11.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow11.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow12.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow12.jpg.html)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/PeterBow13.jpg) (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/k-hat/media/PeterBow13.jpg.html)

I've got a sister stave that is a flatbow design that I hope to have finished soon.  She's a hunter and I can't wait to finish her up!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: Aaron H on March 22, 2017, 10:23:05 am
Great looking bow, I like the simplicity
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: BowEd on March 22, 2017, 10:52:13 am
Very nice.Excellent shooter I bet.I like what the walnut stain did to the elm too.Could use it for hickory too I imagine.
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: Del the cat on March 22, 2017, 11:06:57 am
Woo, nice bit of character in that... I do like Elm  :)
Del
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: DC on March 22, 2017, 11:13:36 am
I like that one!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 22, 2017, 12:06:27 pm
Nice work Kevin, good looking stick.
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: silent sniper on March 22, 2017, 12:31:02 pm
That is one VERY nice bow! Simple, yet extremely refined. Beautiful work. SS
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: PaulN/KS on March 22, 2017, 12:45:41 pm
Very nice bow.
It's got some character as well as classic elegance.  :OK
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: k-hat on March 22, 2017, 01:39:15 pm
Appreciate the kind words guys.  Elm is definitely my favorite bow wood, it's so versatile when you treat it right.  Beadman hickory surely would have a similar look on the back, but I have yet to find a hick stave that has that "rings within rings" look that I find in nice elm.  Course I may just not have seen enough hickory.  Doing this one makes me definitely want to try a classic, heavy, arc-of-the-circle elm longbow with a primitive finish(maybe even an ugly one like the Welsh  ;) ), in the range of 70# or so (well, that's heavy for me  :P ).  I'll have to add it to my growing To-Do list. 
The knot was really fun and unexpected.  It seemed to be pretty well intact from the belly, but upon trying to hollow out the  knot the core popped right out. My wife didn't really understand my excitement  ;D

Thanks for lookin!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Longbow
Post by: selfbow joe on March 22, 2017, 01:58:41 pm
Good looking bow!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: Redhand on March 22, 2017, 06:10:24 pm
Nice bow!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: joachimM on March 22, 2017, 06:15:40 pm
I bet this young fellow will be excited too. Nice work, and the knot adds a ton of character to this bow. I wouldn't have dared, not even on elm.
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: upstatenybowyer on March 22, 2017, 06:33:36 pm
That's a sweet looking bow. Glad you're back into it! The recipient will be happy indeed!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: DuBois on March 22, 2017, 07:19:56 pm
Very cool!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: k-hat on March 23, 2017, 03:42:18 pm
Thanks Joe, Redhand.  JoachimM I have been hoping for a stave with a perty knot like that.  This time wasn't so much by design as chance, and I just had to go with it at that point.  Glad I left the extra meat there.  I like a little character in my bows!
Upstate, you been crankin out enough for the both of us!  I wish I could do a lot more...maybe one day  :BB

Thanks DuBois!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: FilipT on March 24, 2017, 06:38:10 am
Whoa! Like the kinks on the bow, that was surely difficult to tiller. Too bad elm is destroyed in Croatia.
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: WillS on March 24, 2017, 07:59:11 am
Very very pretty!  There's something magical about the way elm finishes up. 

It ain't English or Welsh though, that's an American longbow through and through!  It's got fades and flat limbs!  ;)
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: k-hat on March 24, 2017, 11:03:56 am
That's sad news Stalker :'( 

Will, I guess it's really it's own thing.  ALBs I believe are characterized as flatbows, which this is not.  Since it's light weight, and not yew, it really can't follow the victorian ELB rules, but it is a d section, narrows evenly from grip to tips, and has a more circular tiller (except the stiff tips, mind you).  No one really knows the design of Welsh Longbows historically as there are no artifacts.  But if you folow the ideology that the ELB in its war form took cues from the Welsh Longbow, and the Welsh Longbow was made of elm (of that much we are sure!), then I don't think this is a stretch to think this one is very different.  If I could have made it quite a bit heavier, it would have bent thru the handle and had a rue circular tiller.  That was my reasoning anyway, inspired by the WLB, so I called it a WLB  ;)
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: Blayne on March 24, 2017, 11:13:10 am
Thats a fun looking stick! Good work:)
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: WillS on March 24, 2017, 12:47:53 pm
That's sad news Stalker :'( 

Will, I guess it's really it's own thing.  ALBs I believe are characterized as flatbows, which this is not.  Since it's light weight, and not yew, it really can't follow the victorian ELB rules, but it is a d section, narrows evenly from grip to tips, and has a more circular tiller (except the stiff tips, mind you).  No one really knows the design of Welsh Longbows historically as there are no artifacts.  But if you folow the ideology that the ELB in its war form took cues from the Welsh Longbow, and the Welsh Longbow was made of elm (of that much we are sure!), then I don't think this is a stretch to think this one is very different.  If I could have made it quite a bit heavier, it would have bent thru the handle and had a rue circular tiller.  That was my reasoning anyway, inspired by the WLB, so I called it a WLB  ;)

Well the Ballinderry bow was early Irish Viking, and the Mary Rose bows were late medieval, and both are almost identical - circular or "galleon" cross section (not D section - that's a Victorian addition as well, funnily enough) with no distinct handle, fade area or stiff tips.  It stands to reason (and is the accepted belief amongst the traditional longbow/warbow community) that pretty much all the English/Welsh military bows inbetween the two eras were the same as well.  Welsh bows were made of any indigenous woods - wych elm, hazel, holly, yew, plum, ash etc etc. 

I reckon what you've made is more Scandinavian than Welsh - similar to the Haithabu or Holmgaard bows.

Check out the Warbow Wales website for some really nice examples of "Welsh" medieval bows!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: WillS on March 24, 2017, 12:54:43 pm
This is a great article written on the elm medieval bow found on the Mary Rose, if you're interested in making a true elm replica - most likely the exact sort of thing that would have been shot in Wales!

http://warbowwales.com/#/articles/4559117041

(It's the "Bow X1-3" article, third down)
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: k-hat on March 25, 2017, 09:14:12 am
Well, I guess I just got schooled  :o  I've done quite a bit of research to learn what I could about the Welsh, but I've never come across these documents.  It's a good read and I appreciate the info!  I supposed now she's more "inspired by" the Welsh bow the way some movies are inspired by books/true stories but really don't resemble them at all in the end  ;)

Now on my to-do list... true elm welsh longbow  :BB
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: DC on March 25, 2017, 11:47:20 am
You did say "ish". To me that means "from 20 yds away with your eyes squinted it sorta looks like". If you had said genuine, authentic ELB then you should expect criticism.
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: simson on March 25, 2017, 03:44:06 pm
Nice character Bow!
I like the finish and the dye job!
Title: Re: ELBish/Welsh Elm Longbow
Post by: k-hat on March 29, 2017, 04:58:27 am
Haha thanks DC, I like the way you think  ;)

Thanks Simson!