Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: sleek on May 14, 2017, 06:45:36 pm
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A kid was drowning at the beach today. His mother ran frantically to the water pointing and yellimg for help. Everybody at the beach just sat there and watched her without moving a muscle. Evertine except for two men who appeared to be military. They ran in and pulled the 11 year old out the waves that had made it impossible for the boy to recover his breath or touch bottom. All while people sat and watched like it was a tv show infront their eyes. Thanks to two men who dissapeared as heros often do, I still have my son to hug and tell bim I love him. I may never know who they were to care for my son while I was at work, but I have no doubt that I know the type if men they are. If prayers send blessings, may they have all of mine.
The disturbing part is why didnt the entire beach jump to action? They heard the screams and saw my son trying to stay up in the breakers. Curse them. Every worthless last one of them. Worthless, non human scum. How can peiple stand by? How? It infuriates me. Two people out of a 40ish people cared. Two. The rest, brain dead.
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How many of the idiots filmed it
We have raised a voyeuristic society of imbeciles where most of them wouldn't know what to do anyway
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So glad there where two men who didn't need to be told what to do Sleek. So glad you still have your son to hug and tell him you love him. So glad his mother didn't have to watch in horror what could have happened with out them. Bless them and their loved ones.
Bjrogg
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The bystander effect is real, google it. You have to realize that heroes are more rare than people who excel at anything else. All you can do is hope that there is one or two in every large crowd
Glad your son is OK.
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First and Foremost I am glad your son is physically ok.
Emotional hardship may not be readily evident. I almost drowned more than 30 ya. I still hate being in water over my head.
I drive a river canyon on my way to and from work. If there is a car in the river - I will stop and send someone else to a phone. If there is an accident and people are stopped I will continue on and not add to the chaos!
People are as scared as you are - they don't necessarily know what to do. They also may not be able. In this day and age - they may be just plain unwilling or lazy.
Why do the "heros" disappear after a rescue? They are not really protected by the "Good Samaritan" laws anymore. For instance.... break a rib during CPR - save the persons life and get sued for use of excessive force...
Not in My Backyard syndrome - I do not know them - why do I need to help or care?
Car broke down - sorry I can't/won't help... you might be a car jacker staging to take my car. or be a robber waiting to rob me.
In California it might just not be physically safe for you to help. Average speed on California hwys is nearly 80 mph or greater despite posted speed limits!
I do not really know the why, I can only speculate based on my experiences and the instances where I have stopped to help or been involved in a rescue/recovery situation at work.
Love your son - refocus the anger - pray you would be able to do the same for someone else!
Prayers for you and yours!
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............watched like it was a tv show.
many people will not be cognizant of an unfolding tragedy until they experience firsthand a similar loss. perhaps the constant portrayal of tragedy as entertainment, has something to do with that. More importantly, most drownings are not easy to spot.
If you're like most people, you've never heard of the instinctive drowning response. Most of us think that a drowning person will call for help, arms waving and splashing. According to Dr. Francesco A. Pia, these signs show aquatic distress, which occurs before the instinctive drowning response.
People who are drowning typically:
Are not able to yell for help because they are trying to breathe
Are unable to wave their arms
Cannot keep their mouth from sinking below the water's surface
The lack of noise and activity tricks people who are not trained to recognize the instinctive drowning response. They don't realize what is actually happening. Unfortunately, when a person reaches this stage, they can fight drowning for only 20 to 60 seconds.
What to look for
How will you know whether someone is drowning? Watch for the following signals:
Gasping
Not kicking their legs
Body is vertical in the water
Eyes are glassy or closed
Mouth is at or below the water
Mouth is open and head tilted back
Trying to climb in the water
Call to the person and ask if they are okay. If they are in the instinctive drowning response stage, they will most likely be unable to answer you because they are trying to breathe.
glad all turned out well for your family
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IMHO it is a lack of military experience which causes gawkers to exist. I wonder if the two heroes are former military. I know I conduct myself much differently since my stint in the marines and I think it showed on my job with the P.D. We actually had officers hold back or drive around the block rather than beat an ambulance to a medical call. Their response was always, that is not my job. They really got upset when I help set up an updated CPR classes for all employees. My wife was an instructor and she cleared it with the hospital to do it t no charge. There were very few prior military on the department at the time.
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Very glad he is ok.
What you are saying is normal. People simply don't realize to respond unless they have been trained so it becomes a reaction like learning how to tumble or protecting yourself when someone yells get down or hit the deck. Not stopping to gawk.
When I was a teenager I worked as a lifeguard, so you are trained to react in the certification. Once you are trained your brain is triggered to respond. It really isn't the crowds fault, they are just untrained. This is why military people react. First responders react. Others won't. Our brains are wired in certain ways...
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Here is another take on your situation, people don't know what to do, they really don't.
I was walking at a local exercise trail through the woods and ran into a frantic old man who said his buddy had a bad bike wreck, the old man said he didn't know what to do.
I sprinted down a steep hill to find the guy on his side wrapped up in a bike. He had apparently hit his front brake and went face first over the handle bars and face planted the asphalt at a pretty good rate of speed while riding down the steep hill. He was a mess, part of his nose was gone, his face looked like Mike Tyson sucker punched him a few times, lots of cuts, blood and extreme swelling. He was combative, didn't know his name or what happened so I suspected brain injury.
People had started to gather so I directed them to call 911 and told them the exact location we were at, I didn't have a phone, no one offered to help. I stabilized him, held his neck rigid, calmed him down and waited for first res-ponders, after all I had been a boy scout and had first aid merrit badge. I had also had a lot of training in the army and at my job in a power plant on handling injury cases. I knew what to do, I took charge of the situation.
The injured guy was later life flighted for a possible brain injury but I never found out his outcome or saw him or his buddy again. He wasn't wearing a bike helmet.
When the guy's old friend told me he didn't know what to do and later when the crowd gathered I realized I was the only one there that did know what to do out of the 7 or 8 people who stood by gawking.
Sleek, the military guys were probably the only ones there that knew exactly what to do and had the confidence in themselves to take action.
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Who was responsible for him being there and what role did they play in all this?
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Glad to hear your son is ok.
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Who was responsible for him being there and what role did they play in all this?
Fair question. My wife was watching him wade througj the surf. A wave knocked him over and drug him under. She didnt see him pop back up and couldnt find him. By time she heard him screaming he was 100 yards away. She wasnt careless, the waters weren't rough up to that point, it all just hit and happened at once.
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After all this, i dont want my son to be one of those people to stupid to react. Seems boy scouts helped Eric Krewson in that situation, so, off to the scouts my son will go. And probably gonna find a ymca and get him in swimming classes. I want my son to be able to make a difference if needed. In my life, as often as I have found myself useful in helping others, i would bet everyone will find themselves needed at some point. I dont want him to find himself unprepared.
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that sounds like a good plan, training gives the ability to access when help is called for and the confidence to act.
hope you do not mind the digression about "instinctive drowning response", as I know that is not exactly what happened to your son yesterday.
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Idiots come in all types.
Every year in the UK we get people dying 'cos they've gone out on ice to "rescue" a dog...
The dog usually survives 'cos it didn't need "rescuing" anyway ::)
Don't judge them too hard or let it eat you up, many people just wouldn't realise what was going on, or weren't strong enough swimmers. There are a lot of people who go in to help and end up drowning too, or making matters worse.
The important thing is your son survived :)... my son is alive due to prompt help from people close at hand who knew what to do and a hopital close at hand.
Del
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Depend on anyone is a hard thing to do. Aside from that swimming lessons are kids best friend. Also I always make my kids wear a life jacket when we go to the ocean. Even the strongest swimmers can get dragged out before you know it
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Glad your son is ok. Yes, swimming lessons should be started soon. If for no other reason than to keep himfrom developing fear of the water after this incident.
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Who was responsible for him being there and what role did they play in all this?
Exactly what I was thinking! Woman rant here....stop screaming and do something!!! If she could not swim, and there was no lifeguard on duty, she should have never allowed the child in ...period! Her fault.
Those guys that helped were heroes in my mind.....never count on it though.
This same thing happened to my wife on vacation.....I chewed her butt, our son, our responsibility, no one else. She received NO help on a very popular beach.
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She was screaming, pointing, and running towards him her intention was to get to him, but she isnt in as good a shape as the two men who did respond and help. My wife is a navy vet,and a good swimmer.
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I think you are being too hard on her it is a fine line between protecting children and not letting them live lives
And I do think the modern inclination is to reach for the phone and film what you see not to help. Life is becoming s spectator sport. How many shots of the rescue do you think are on YouTube
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There's still some of us out here that will "go to the sound of the guns"!
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If someones life is in danger that makes it a dangerous situation. I believe people are genetically programmed to avoid danger unless it's one of your own family or group. Training can counter that programming.
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I grew up in the water and at the beach. Shoot, I could swim before I could walk, living in the tropics. I remember my dad deliberately taking us to the beach when he new there was a strong undertow and going in with us to teach us not to fight it and let us get swept out then swim in without a fight. Training...no different than firearm safety or anything else.
Hope he gets those swim lessons.
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IMO, swimming lessons and firearm safety should be taught in schools. Both can be deadly if one is ignorant to either.
By swimming lessons I don't mean how to do the back stroke or the Australian crawl but keeping your head above water and not panicking.
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I was born and raised in a beach town(still here), never did learn how to swim. When my kids were born they were enrolled in swimming classes as soon as they would take them. !8 months, I think. I wanted them to be able to swim before they could think about it too much.
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Sleek, was this your son and wife? Not sure as you started by A kid and referred later as his mother.
Just wondering AND thank our Lord that the boy is OK and that two strangers came to his aid.
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If someones life is in danger that makes it a dangerous situation. I believe people are genetically programmed to avoid danger unless it's one of your own family or group. Training can counter that programming.
I think D.C. Is right. I also think some people freeze at the sight of danger and some people can't stop themselves from helping someone they see I danger. Many times at the cost of their own lives. I think training, swimming lessons and understanding rip tides, undertow and many other assorted dangers are very good ideas. My swimming lessons came from the big kids throwing the little kids(me and my friends) in the deep water. They always saved us and didn't let us drowned. Probably not your best learning environment but at least we learned how to stay above water. Our swimming holes where gravel pits and they always had a lot of people in them at the end of a long hot day baleing hay. The high schoolers gave us "tough love", but without them I'm not sure I'd know how to swim yet. I vaguely remember one time at a Olympic size swimming pool one of my friends fighting to make it to the edge of the pool, I gave him a little help not even really thinking about it. Many years later we where on his boat and he thanked me for saving him. It obviously had a lasting impact on him. I wouldn't be to hard on the people who didn't help. I'd be very greatful to those who helped. I think the flight instinct is more common than the fight.
Bjrogg
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They always saved us and didn't let us drowned.
You wouldn't be posting if they did ;D ;D
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Your pretty observant there D.C. My real point is even though they acted like we were pond scum they really did watch out for us.
Bjrogg
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Sleek, was this your son and wife? Not sure as you started by A kid and referred later as his mother.
Just wondering AND thank our Lord that the boy is OK and that two strangers came to his aid.
Yes it is my son and wife. My story tellung abilities arent that great.
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Training and experience can help, but I think there is the majority of the human race that stops to think and a small percentage that acts. I have never been trained in any discipline such as EMT, military, lifeguard, or any other field where you have to just plain act on gut instinct. But I have happened onto several situations where others fell apart and I just did what needed doing.
My ADHD is overwhelming. Any distraction is THE FOCUS until the next distraction. It is like living in a snowstorm of Post-It notes and I have to read and act on every one that instant. There is no ability to filter and classify, everything is Priority One. The last time I had clarity was the day I saw someone ahead of me skid out on an icy bridge and down into the ditch they went, almost rolling. Next instant, I lost all four wheels' grip. Clutch pedal to the floor, foot off the gas, stick moved to neutral, get the front wheels pointed straight down the road....and in very slow motion, I followed them into the ditch. As soon as my wheels were off the pavement into the snowy ditch, I knew traction was better, so I picked a lower gear and took my foot off the clutch to allow the rear wheels to create drag. Straightened out, got under control, swerved around them and stopped. I got them behind bridge abutments so they could not get hit by the other cars skidding out and I began dealing with one vehicle after another; two rollovers, one into a guardrail, and another slammed into the first vehicle into the ditch. I had uninjured people heading up the road to flag traffic, had one person that seemed calm on the phone with 911 narrating injuries and counts of vehicles, and another person calling the State DOT shop half a mile up the road with a demand for a sanding truck immediately. It was CLEAR within my head for just a few moments. And maybe it was just these very few rare times, because other times I have stood rooted in place wondering what I should do.
If everyone was always a hero, there would be no heroes by definition, only average. Best just be glad that two heroes were there and were in a position to act. You have had enough stress on your plate this last two years, brother, gather your thoughts and form them into one huge deep breath of thanksgiving and let the rest go for now. Love you, ok?
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God Bless your son, wife and the two the rendered help.
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I worked with a woman that was the big push behind all the first aid stuff. All the classes, competitions and simulations she was right in there. One day she ran into a real accident. She saw real blood and was totally useless, just a quivering heap. You never know who will do what until the time comes.
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I think in a situation like this there are more heroes that we think, as was said earlier many people are afraid to react while others do react, and I know I've been in situations where I was going to react but someone else reacted first so I stood down and observed in case I was needed after all. I think often in these situations if the hero who stepped up wasn't there then another hero would have stepped up, even if there is a slight delay I've seen footage where the hero was looking around for someone else to step up and seeing that no one had they got that obvious look of "no one is doing a thing, well I will".
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I appreciate all the responses and opinions offered here. As well as all the sentiments. Even a guy likes to know folks care about him and his family. My son is fine, and wanted to go to the beach again just two days ago.
This did get me to thinking.he had a hard time screaming for help, and when trying not to drown, breath is valuable. So I want to make a CO2 powered wistle that attaches to a shirt pocket. If you need help, pull a cord and that baby will sing loud enough to be heard on a crowded beach no mater the distance. Make it float so it doesnt need to be held while struggling to swim. Was also thinking of an inflatable shirt co2 powered. Pull another rip coard and bicycleinner tubes sewn in inflate. That should do wonders for drown prevention.
In the shirt the shirt is thin light weight fabric, tubes sewn in flat so not to be bulky, and in location so as not to impeed swimming once inflated.
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They already have those for people who can't swim. They're called life jackets. ;)
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"Last November, 33-year-old Antwan McNutt beat a man to death with a bottle of liquor on the South Side of Chicago. Onlookers took video and posted it to Facebook; no one intervened to help."
It seems no one even called 911 when it was going on but of course they filmed it
We are raising a generation of spectators who think that life is a TV show for their entertainment. I don't blame anyone for this it just is what it is
I will stop here as this is a good apolitical site and I respect that.
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Here's a brave man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYoSPjlQvtg
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Yes that guy was Brave but that girl's parents are stupid. who in their right mind lets their kid taunt an animal that probably weighs 3 to 400 pounds and is designed to kill. That animal was clearly agitated. Being brave is one thing but allowing your kid to do that is another. Something's in this world you just don't mess with. It's like when a killer whale kills one of its trainers it one of the aquarium's. And you hear everyone say that's terrible but the truth is what did you think was going to happen when you decided to swim with a killer whale? Instead of the question where are all the heroes, the real question is where did everyone's common sense go?
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sea lions have learned to feed around fishing boats, it's a lot more productive than hunting for themselves. The sealion was not agitated, the girls white dress (when she turned) looked like a sizable meal.The sea lions haul out on the floats and have learned to they can intimidated anyone trying to make them move. It is against the law anyone to "harass" a sealion, so they get pretty brave.
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Stupid parents in that video. Sea lions have crazy teeth and eyes in the front of their head for a reason, they are always looking for food, meat to be exact. Lets play with them and get a selfy for Facebook, SOUNDS GREAT! Darwin's theory will continue to be played out in our dumbed down society.
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She was screaming, pointing, and running towards him her intention was to get to him, but she isnt in as good a shape as the two men who did respond and help. My wife is a navy vet,and a good swimmer.
Sleek,
This post for the reasons I will point out really bothers me. Let me give you a couple of different situations where parents can and are charged with a crimes. 1. Firearms as Pat pointed out. If you have firearms in your house, and no matter how much you tell your children to stay away, don't touch, ect. even if you have them under lock and key......if your child gains access through negligence on your behalf, YOU will be charged with a crime if it leads to branishment in public, or death, your fault, you will be charged. 2. Someone said you there is a fine line between letting kids live their lives and not. True, but in the eyes of the law negligence does not fit into this ideology. Let's say you five yr old takes off down the road, you are a good parent and this under normal circumstances would never happen. An officer finds the kid 1 mile down the road, you could be charged with negligence, regardless of how good a parent you are. This is not a public issue, this is a parenting issue. The public can be helpful, and even now and then a hero may appear, but to expect it as your post indicates is plain ignorant! Don't expect the public to risk their lives for an adults irresponsible planning.
Knowing your child did not have the appropriate swimming abilities, no life guard on duty, and what baffles me even more no lifejacket, your wife's apparent inability to reach the child.....in my mind this is negligence.
I am very happy things worked out for you, as I could not imagine losing a child in front of me knowing my irresponsible actions may have contributed to my own child's demise......that would be heartbreaking to say the least. I think you really need to rethink what you posted, and where the blame truly lies, and it is not with the public!
This thread truly bothers me!