Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: loefflerchuck on May 18, 2017, 11:51:34 pm
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The Ache are a people native to what is now Paraguay. They made these 85+ inch bows of ipe wood. They shot arrows the size of spears. Macbeth hardwoods finally carries ipe wood, but only 3/4" lumber. Not enough wood to make one of these bows. I found perfect long white ash to suffice. I fumed the stave and treated it with vinegar/steel wool. The bow was still not dark enough so I added a stain to give it the ipe look. This is the 3rd heavy round cross section bow I have made. The first to make it to 100# at 32" draw. I was only able to draw it about 27" where it drew about 75#. The person I made it for said it needed to shoot over 200 meters. I took 2- 690 grain 32" arrows to the range. With my max draw of about 27" the arrows landed at 206 and 210 meters. I was satisfied and did not take any more shots. The cross section is round from mid limb to tip and oval in the middle. Pretty similar to English long bows of the middle ages. A 87" long bow with a 32" draw is not a stressed design, but it still had a inch or so of string follow. This thing was a bitch to string. Took a while before I finally half hitched string below the nocks and put a stringing string on those string nocks. Stood on the stringing string and pulled the bow up to string. How does one string a 87" long 100# bow?
White ash. 87" long. 100# draw @ 32". Round cross section. Braided rawhide nocks.
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full draw
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GOOD LORD!!!!!
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Cool Bow Chuck - made My Back & Shoulder hurt just thinking about it tho (SH) ! Bob
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Nice work, great post :)
200 metres. that bow laughs at 200m ;D
Those V long bows certainly are a pig to string. I'm currently doing a repair/re-tiller on a warbow (not one of mine) I thought it was stupidly long at 84" (I may take an inch off each end). I dread to think what 87" feels like!
Del
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Nice but like others it hurts me to think about drawing it. :)
Pappy
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Fantastic bow, and so nice to see bows from different cultures being made!
To string something like this, the knee-in-the-handle method works perfectly. Just lean the bow away from you, with the belly facing you. Put your knee smack in the middle of the handle and lean your entire body weight onto it. Pull the top limb towards you and brace it that way. It works up to about 140lb, so should be a piece of cake with this one (unless you weigh less than 100lb, in which case... :o )
If I remember correctly, many of these bows have the string stored by being wrapped around the handle and tied off, instead of being slid down the string. To brace them, you loop the bottom nock end on first, then do the knee method and bring the top loop up and over the top nock. This lets you build up those sinew wraps quite thick to add safety and security, because the string doesn't need to fit over them to slide down the limb.
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What is cross section dimensions of this bow?
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Nice job, very primitive looking. A person would have to be a stud to string or shoot that one.
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Wow Chuck, that thing is a monster! >:D Outstanding job! Love the fuming, nocks, and beautiful simplicity.
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Incredible. I would need a boat winch to draw that monster.
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Cool bow, I like the braided nocks
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Wow that is a serious long bow! Very nice! I bet the arrows will make at least 250 meters when drawn to the full 32!
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Beautiful bow Chuck, i would like to shoot that girl!
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That is very impressive. I like the tiller! Jawge
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That is a really cool bow. I love seeing different styles of native bows from around the world. Too bad you couldn't find a piece of ipe big enough.
I would really like to see that shot at full draw.
Kyle
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Thanks everyone.
WillS- Thanks. I'll try that next time. I have no problem stringing bows with more than 12" of reflex, but this one...
Stalker- It was just over 1.5" wide at the handle and slightly wider than thick.
BobW and WillS- you guys must have some burley bow arms. I was able to draw 90# at one time. I'm about 75# now, but would rather draw 45-55#
I'll try to get a photo of my attempted draw to show how huge this bow is. If you ran out of arrows you would have a burley spear/staff
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That is indeed an awesome bow! I would really like to see the arrow that you would use. ;D
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Here is all I got for draw. About 27" 75#. Considering my bows are between 48 and 56" for my 26" draw. I am very awkward with this bow. Probably break stuff if I took it inside.
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braced
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Cool bow chuck, i like the grimace at draw
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The bow is great. It's so interesting to see how a bow that size totally changes the perspective of you. The short sheephorn bows present you in one way and you standing next to that gargantuan bow makes you look like Tom Thumb!
Great bow great post.
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That bow is awesome. I can't remember to have ever seen a bow of this length. Your tiller looks great, also the finish. Also like the string and the nock wrap.
As said above, it looks unreal seeing you with that stick as we are used to your shorties.
Nice pics btw.
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very nice,,, hope to hear some response from the guy when he shoots it a 30 plus,, :BB
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You are getting outstanding performance on that bow. I am going to try and project what it would do at 32".
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Ah man, if you can get it that far back you can get it all the way back :D
Lean forward, arch your back and use your upper back muscles to get the bow back. At the same time, push the bow itself forward smoothly but firmly. If you can shoot 75lb without a solid heavy bow technique, you can definitely shoot 100lb with the right form.
When I got my technique down I went from 70lb to 140lb in two years or so, but got up to 105lb on the same day I was taught how to do it. Once it's right you'll find it comes back smoothly!
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I think that bow could shoot that same 690 grain arrow about 300 meters if drawn to 32" maybe a bit more. Do you know the mass weight of the bow by any chance?
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Will S, I am doing as you describe to just get it that far.
Badger, That seems really far for a bow with with almost a inch if set. Or is that fairly normal for 100#? The other 2 round bows I made like this in the past were ipe and ash. Of course the ash shot further than the heavy ipe. I can't remember the details of the last ash one. I think 78# @ 28" and 69" long. It shot a 80# spined spruce arrow over 210 yards. Can't remember the weight of the arrow. I did heat treat the belly on this bow after tillering. I would figure heat treating works best on a flat belly and with a round crown any performance increased would be from forced drying. My range was a flat span of ranchland with very little wind at 7500 feet above sea level. My shooting method was draw the arrow as far as I could and release at what I thought was 45 degrees. Given all that, if this still seems far for the bow then chances are I was able to draw it a little further on my shots than with a measuring string. I'm going to ask the new owner what he gets at 32".
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Awesome bow!
Ah man, if you can get it that far back you can get it all the way back :D
Lean forward, arch your back and use your upper back muscles to get the bow back. At the same time, push the bow itself forward smoothly but firmly. If you can shoot 75lb without a solid heavy bow technique, you can definitely shoot 100lb with the right form.
When I got my technique down I went from 70lb to 140lb in two years or so, but got up to 105lb on the same day I was taught how to do it. Once it's right you'll find it comes back smoothly!
How do you arch the back??
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You lean forward... then lean the top of your body back again.
This is Joe Gibbs - easily the worlds best heavy bow archer, capable of shooting over 200lb at the moment showing the perfect form for really heavy bows. Once the back muscles have got used to the weight this exaggerated form can be reduced quite a lot, but if you're struggling to get fully inside a heavy bow, it's really the best way to do it.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4252/34391863410_88fbef649f_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4186/33935689654_263e5fbaa6_b.jpg)
You can see in loefflerchuck's photo of him drawing the bow that his body is very upright and the elbow is really high which means all the work is being done by that arm instead of the upper back. Leaning into the bow isolates those upper back muscles, and they're massively stronger than the arms.
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Very nice looking bow
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Looks like I need to work on my 100# form
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This is really an interesting bow for several reasons, great performance, unusually long and made from what is considered a second string bow wood. A real good example of matching up materials draw weight and demensions. I deal with this quite a bit building elbs for a flight shooting class. I find for lighter weight bows of moderate to light weights I often have to use lighter weight woods to get the performance I am looking for. At 87" long 100# is really a "Light Bow". Good bow to study here.
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i love seeing bows that are not recreated often.
Great bow Chuck, you sure got your bang for your buck
from that ash lumber
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What a beast of a bow!! Nice job
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Great bow. Chuck beautiful Monster !
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Incredible! God Bless
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Way to go Chuck...I'd definitely call that a man sized bow.No doubt about it.Who's gonna break down first?The bow or the man.
I've only pulled a bow to 85 pounds once or twice.Was'nt the most pleasant experience,but I'm sure I wasnt using the proper muscles either.
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Badger- Good point. Yes, with 87" to work with the only stress on my mind was unseen ash borer damage. The growth rings on the stave I used were so big that even with the round cross section the back was a single ring for the prominent crown. I want to make one a little shorter and lighter for me to really test. I've also got my first real attempt at a flight bow in the works. I'm already in Utah and may be able to make it to the shoot in Wendover. I'm making no claims of being in the top rankings. Just think it would be fun to see how a juniper sapwood bow can perform and learn a lot for the next shoot.
Ryan- Yes, I was getting a bit discouraged spending so much time looking through all the walnut, hickory, maple, white oak... and only finding lumber unsuitable for bows. Then 1 $96 ash board that so far has made 4 bows, 32 arrows, 2 cores and a half dozen arrows for you and 4-5 staves left. The perfect piece of lumber. Every stave is a single ring on the back.
Thanks everybody.
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how do you like the ash arrows,, do you cut them with a band saw first,, (AT)
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That's an interesting theory Badger. I'm hoping I understand it correctly. Does it mean to suggest that after a certain point, the density of the wood becomes a detriment to it's functionality? Meaning that there are functional dimensions below which the material properties of a denser wood are less performance effective than a less dense species of wood might be. Density is a function of volume, so as we reach toward the minimum volume dimensions of the bow, a higher density wood's performance is more negatively impacted by the increased mass than it might be positively impacted by the increased elasticity or strength. ...am I even close here?
OneBow
Sweet bow Chuck! That thing is huge. I'm pretty sure it would effectively minimize a passing Conquistador's desire to stop and plant a banner in the name of his despot king!
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Brad, I recently invested a few hundred in a set up to turn all my own shafts of any size. So far I've used poplar and ash. I have more of that plus doug fir, hickory and white oak now. I plan on cutting some aspen and getting birch boards. These are all proven arrow woods. I think people have tried most wood species and many don't make great arrows for many reasons. So far I like ash for heavy arrows. I have much to learn and much more testing. I have a stack of arrow wood seasoning in a rafter. I imagine the longer that wood sits in the rafter the better the arrows will be when I turn them out.