Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on July 26, 2017, 08:39:01 pm
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I feel sort of silly asking this but what the hey. I'm tillering a skinny Osage molle sort of so it has rather short thick(ELB like cross section) working limbs. I got it out to 40#@ 23-24" and it's starting to take set. Is this the wood saying it doesn't want to bend any more? It's 61" TTT
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How wide are the limbs?
How much set has it taken?
What draw length are you going for?
Has it already been heat treated?
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Just under an inch.
1.5-2"
27"
No
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my first thoughts are yes it is too narrow for what your design is,,
and thats as far as it wants to draw,,
if you showed an unbraced photo we could tell where it is taking set,,
and maybe you could make the other parts bend a bit more to get a little more draw,,
but I am just guessing,, but I am not guessing about the set,,
the way the bow is tillered now you are asking too much of the narrow limb,,
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I kind of thought so. I learned to chase a ring on this stave and by the time I got one ring the stave was only an inch wide. Osage is like hens teeth around here so you use what you got. I sure wasn't going to throw it away. I'll set up my tripod tomorrow and get some unblurry pictures.
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You could get more drawlength by lowering the weight to 30#. Thinner can bend further. Heat treating may allow you another inch or so. Finessing the bend into the 'levers' might get another inch but as you know it is more or less maxed out.
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Maybe you could lengthen your lever fade 1 in each side how much working limb do you have ? At being that narrow sounds tuff to get the bow you want these short levers are tuff bows to make with out taking set , I have a stave just like yours Im going to try a bendy lever for a shorter bow but even with the set that bow would be pretty quick I would bet.
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Have you heat treated yet? How much backset if any did you start with? Are you 100% sure wood is dry? It is not unusual to loose some of the backset we heat in, sometimes it is hard to tell if it is really set or we just din't get the back set heated in solid enough. As said above, find out where it is taking set and maybe move the bend a little more toward the mid limb if you can. Sounds like you are pretty close. Good tension on the string at brace is really what most of us are looking for. If you still have good tension you might be ok if you can just start tillering out other sections of the bow that aren't bending enough. Plus if you haven't heat treated yet you might pick it back up there.
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Sounds "wet" to me. Set happens, but that's way too much for too little draw length and poundage.
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Here's the pictures. I got the wood from Goat and I believe he got it when he went to the Classic. It's been in my 50% RH box for months so I believe it's dry. No heat treating yet except to flip the tips. It's spiced billets and was straight when glued up. The last picture is a pic of the back. It's less than an inch at it's widest. I realise it's not too much to worry about at the moment but I've still got 3" to go.
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ok DC,, I know this is not a propular train of thought,,
but ,, why push the limit on that bow,, I bet if you shot it through a chrono ,, it would be shooting well,,,
and likely to live a long life as is,,
ok now you say but my draw is 27,,, ok,,
learn to shoot that one at 24,,,, or give it to someone that shoots a short draw,,,
yes with the suggestions above you might be ablel to stretch it out,, but why,,
if the wood is taking set,, its not gonna get better if you go 3 more inches,, and probably the set it will take will make is shoot about the same cast as what it is doing now,, or it will be a wash to stretch it out,, or maybe fail at the longer draw,,
ok thats my thought for the day,, (-P
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I tend to agree with you Brad, I have seen lots of bows end up shooting better at the shorter draw when they were fresher.
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underdesigned.
bottom limb is too strong.
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Under designed-- that's a pretty vague answer, could mean almost anything. Which limb are you calling the bottom.
I'll try a few shots at the short draw and see what I think. And I'll run it through the chrono. That will give me some data if I do decide to draw it farther.
I have learned something. It had never occurred to me that set was the bows way of telling me that it was bent far enough. I had all the facts I needed to draw that conclusion but for some reason I never put them together. Sometimes my brain works in mysterious ways, sometimes not at all. Thanks for all the input.
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yes my brain intermentant ,, bow making keeps me confused,, but I like it,,, )-w(
also I am just guessing ,, but if you looked at teh chart for how much mass is needed for what your are trying to do,,
I would guess the weight of your wood is to light,, or you dont have enough mass,, :NN
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Honestly? I don't know.
In the first pic, assuming conventional wisdom ruled the day, it seems the top is to the right and the bottom/left is likely strong(imo), but I hate to judge too harshly too early. Now, beinzit I have no idea where you're pulling the string from, or holding the grip at, in relation to your true fulcrums... are they indeed true/realistic? Regardless, in the series of 4 pics, the first of the 4 looks like the bow is now switched, top now on left side. But in 2, 3, and 4 of that series, it looks like the top is again on the right. Yo DC, you messin with us? is this a test? lol
So sir, I return your serve.... which limb are YOU calling the bottom? ;)
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DWS Since I was 4" from my goal I hadn't picked the top limb, or the bottom ;D ;D and you're right it does look like when I took it down to brace it I turned it around when I put it back up. Wasn't deliberate. Sorry it was early. I hadn't even had coffee yet.
Brad It weighs 17 oz which, if I'm reading the chart right, is about what it should be for a 26" draw
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Ahh, coffee is good food. I choose limbs during layout based on wood quality, availability, amounts of reflex/deflex, character, or whatever such thoughtful reasoning. 4" from the goal? Hmmm, not me. I make a definitive choice on limbs, usually long before I floor tiller. Lay it out asymmetrical, and that's that.
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well ok I was wrong about the mass,, but the set is still telling,,
please shoot it at 24 before you go further,, and then since its your bow,, do as you wish,, (=)
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I tried. Da*n chrono. About 50-60 shots and maybe a half dozen valid results. The rest were ERR1 and ERR2. I don't know when to believe this thing. If i had to guess I'd say it was in the high 160's. I had one 170, one 182 and one 263. I know not to believe the 263. I think I'm pleased and impressed but even though I put tape around the arrow at 24 I can't be sure I was hitting it. I find the chrono very frustrating.
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I don't know how much your arrow weighs but if it is 10 grains per pound you are getting great results. If your mass is ok and the bow is showing signs of early set I would be suspicious of slightly high moisture, maybe like 12 or 13 %. I would honestly go with the heat treating and then put the bow in a dry place for a week or so. Another thing, not all osage is alike, some just holds its profile better than others.
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sounds like you are not standing far enough back,,
at least one arrow length,,
and try a different lighting,, like morning light may give you more consistant results,,
thanks for trying though,, it sounds like it is shooting well like Badger said,,
(-S
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I tried all different distances from 1 arrow length out to 15 feet or so. Once I'm out that far my chances of hitting the chronos sweet spot diminish rapidly. It's not usually this bad. Maybe the light. It's a bright sunny day. I'll try tomorrow morning.
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I have best luck in the morning,, and it takes practice to shoot through it level,,
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DC,, did you get to shoot the bow,, (AT)
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DC, do you have any overhead electrical wires anywhere near where you shoot through the chrono. I had to quit using mine because of wires near my yard. I get 20 fps fast or slow and sometimes just haywire readings.
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Brad I heat treated it so it's resting. I shot it before treating. It shoots real nice. Maybe tomorrow I'll try again though the chrono.
Steve There are regular distribution wires, 2300 or 7600 volts, about 150 feet from where I shoot. Is that "anywhere near"? I am in the shade of a bunch of trees and I can see the shadows dancing around. That could screw it up. Maybe I'll take it out to a sand pit far from anything and try it.
Has anyone tried one of those Doplar chronos.
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I think the shade of the trees could be part of the problem,,
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I've thought more about that and if the flickering shade is causing false readings why does the chrono never go off on its own? If a shadow is triggering the sensors I should get error messages without doing anything.
A strange thing happened though. I had the chrono on it's tripod and my wife moved it. It fell over and the number 2 sensor came to pieces. Pulled all the screws out. Maybe good news I thought, now I can buy one of those Doppler Chronos. I stuck it all back together but since the screw holes were stripped out I CA'd the two halves together. Now it seems to work reasonably well even in the sun. I'll try it again this afternoon.
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well ok then , ,proceed and post results, we all hoping they are great,, )P(
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I just went out and tried about 10 shots and then one of my tips sheared off. No harm done. The chrono worked very well. It's been broken before. It's a poor design. The wire that support the shades actually plug into the plastic sensor housings. If you hit the wire with an arrow or drop it the sensor housing comes apart and pieces go everywhere. Then because the screws strip out of the housing they never go back quite the same. This time because I glued it back together maybe it worked better. I dunno.
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tip sheard off,,,more info please,, (--)
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I've not had this happen since I started using Ocean Spray tips. It just split off. It was a temporary tip. I may have started the split when I was filing the groove. Sometimes my file seems to bind a bit in the slot.
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DC,
The grain on the overlays need to be perpendicular to the back of the bow. I'll take a pic of the hackberry molle I'm working with osage overlays for an example. You should never have that issue, that's why overlays are added....
DBar
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What's the grain orientation of your overlays? I've had the string split the overlay along the grain just like that with some overlays. Didn't learn my lesson and did it again, then somebody suggested putting the overlay with the rings perpendicular to the back of the bow, helped but the wood was still too soft (mahogany I think). FWIW
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I usually do it that way, grain perpendicular. I'm not sure this time as it was just a temp. OS is so strong it surprised me. It's sawdust now so I can't check. New one is on, perpendicular, glue is drying.
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Here is the pic's.................Hope this help's .....I would not even put a temporary on that way. If it failed it could break your bow...
I love using tight ringed osage for overlays.
DBar
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It occurred to me that I had reduced my strings from 10 strands of FF to eight. That probably didn't help. I'll remember to put in some short strands next one.