Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stick Bender on September 23, 2017, 07:26:03 am
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Im chasing this osage ring this morning and ran across this every thing seems to be in the same ring and there is a good separation between rings I have ran into crazy grain around knots but this almost seems like a ring violation but from the side view its the same ring ?
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A lot of osage will have within the latewood ring between the two early wood spaces what people want to call moon rings.They are visible.If your in the same ring yet you should be ok.Although a bees butt look on the back from a pin knot can be trouble.
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It's hard to say from a pic, but it looks like there's two separate rings with the transition from one to the next just above that pin knot. If it's one ring, I've never seen a natural separation of one ring underneath another like that before.
Also looks like the pin itself is violated a bit. Thin rings on that stave?
Just read your comment Ed. Never heard of "moon rings" before. ??? interesting (-P
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Ok thanks Ed are you saying that knot is the Bees butt look ? I scraped with a real sharp scraper and the border look came out This one is going to be sinewed backed but still want the back solid ?
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Looks way different from that angle. Now it looks like all one ring for sure. If you're sinew backing it it really shouldn't matter anyway. ;)
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Thanks Jeff the rings are what I would call medium Im in the second one down now I never herd of moon rings ether learn somthing new every day !
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Just a few thoughts....I recently had one very similar where the ring I was chasing just seemed to disappear. Very little if any early wood at the junction of the 2 apparent rings. I ended up dropping down a ring. Very frustrating as it did the same thing at the same spot. Dropped a few more and it was fine. No idea why it did that and I've not seen another like it. Not sure yours is the same but it looks similar.
I've seen some Osage with more discernible lunar rings than most. Almost semi ring porous looking, like Hackberry.
I would want to eliminate it were it me.
Second pic looks way better.
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Look very closely at your end grain in the latewood.Not all osage has it as distinct as others.They are normally not a problem at all with most bows.Others who have worked a lot of osage should comment too.As commented on here earlier in the past not all osage is the same.
I really think you'll be ok but it's your bow and go with your gut.If rawhide makes you feel better I'd do it.Good pics by the way.I tried close ups with my camera and they came out too fuzzy to show my point.
Yes lunar's what it's called too.
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I still say of it's within the main ring you should be ok.It has for me many many times.That's why lots of times leaving a little wood on each pin knot while chasing rings is a good idea and then slowly touching it up later with a scraper.
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This the second ring I have chased on this stave because I didn't like the other it seems to be cleaning up a bit it's like sticky early wood in wider grain , this one is going to be sinew backed I'm not trying to short cut any thing but never ran into it before good learning experience also I could never get the dull draw knife method like in TBB to work before ,but took a old draw knife loosely sharpened it and took my burring tool and put a burr on it , in about 3 hrs I have 3/4 of the ring chased it really works good they must have forgot to mention the burr in TBB...lol Thanks Slimbob glad to see you back around ! I will finish it today if I can keep the wife out of my hair & if I don't like it I will start over again !
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That's it!!!If you got enough thickness you can go to the next ring.You should be ok.
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These are violations of so called monthly rings. In fact these rings have nothing to do with months, but are episodes of growing in one ring. You can watch these rings in nearly every elm ring. if you ring is thick enough, you can live with that violation (and if desired drawweight is not exessive). If you have enough meat to go down to the next, this would be the secure way.
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Here is the view from the othere direction this ring is the thickest of the bunch in the upper section Im on the border as far as handle thickness of where I want to be but could go down one more ring I think !
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Where on the stave is that violated area? If you can place it at the non bending part (handle) - not a problem!
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Ok the hell with it I won't feel right unless It's right ,I'm finish this ring out and chase to the next maybe the 3 rd is the charm )-w(
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I've mentioned this before, but I sharpen my drawknife razor sharp. The bevel is only on one side. This puts enough of a burr on the blade that when I turn the knife bevel down, and hold the blade edge perpendicular to the back, it shaves like a razor. It works perfectly as a scraper on Osage. Not as well on softer woods.
Pristine back is where it starts for me. I do agree with Ed and Simon in that it may not matter one bit on yours, especially if you are adding sinew. Just one of those judgement calls.
Final thought here. When you chase the ring, leave the early wood intact on top of your back. Lightly sand or scrape that off at the end.
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How stressful of a design you have in store for the bow?
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It does look usable but Im going chase to the next down hoping for the better one doesent make sense not to if I have the thickness which I do , I like the scraper draw knlfe & leave my others razor sharp works good for me especially when I have to chase a ring 3 times , I will leave wood around the knots and go back scrap like Ed sugested , I would leave the early layer on Slim but I want to see whats under on this stave !
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Posted at the same time as you Ed its going to be pretty stressed 57 in. Pulled to 29 1/2 45-48 lb maybe 2 oz sinew 6 1/2 static leavers 5 in total reflex between the hooks and reverse strung to start hoping to keep 3 in. so all the stars need to line up if not I will go to another stave but this one has good early/late ratio Im keeping the width in the lowers 1 3/4 to past mid limb !
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I agree it is slightly violated in the same ring, and might be ok,,, if you have the wood try again to make sure,,
leave a bit extra as suggested next time,, thats a really nice piece of wood ,, should make a great bow, and would probably be ok,, but after I have worked that hard,, I usuallly go down and try to get it real clean,, so much work goes into that bow,, going down one more ring wont be that bad,, and you will feel more confident,,
I have made sinew bows and I didnt have enough wood,, and made them not on the same ring on back and worked fine,, but with that nice ring, you should be able to stress the heck out of it .... with no ill effect,,
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Thanks Brad I just chased another foot of the ring below and same thing that lunar mix of rings deal I just shellac it going to put it back up on the wall for a less stressed design Im afraid of it on this design Im going back to another stave it was a good new lesson for me never ran into it before !
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well,, ok , I think it would work,, if you cant get past it,,
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I will probably only make 1 maybe 2 bows between now & spring so I just want to take all the wild cards out of the mix if there is such a thing in natural material bows and I think maybe a bendy later date on that one Im just to chicken on this design for that stave is all it probably would work being sinew .
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yes proceed with what you have confidence in, sometimes intuiton is good to follow,,
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What you have is neither fatal or uncommon in osage, Lots of my bows had the same, none failed.
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I call them Lunar rings because that's what I heard them called years ago, but I think they're related to alternating surges of growth and retarded growth within an annual growth ring. In some osage they are remarkably obvious, in others, nonexistent. They can really mess with ya if they're predominant in a piece of thin ringed osage... especially a wet piece. I think you would have been ok, but I'm anal about the bow's back so I probably would have chased another one too... especially with that knot nearby.
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Same here. I can't say with any certainty what causes them. The moons cycle seems to be reasonable as they do have a somewhat constant pattern, where if they were due to moisture they should be less organized. Who knows? If they are prominent I want to follow them faithfully if I can.
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I started re chasing the stave from the other end a little thicker ring the lunar rings are showing up in a area they weren't before but would be narrowed there and gone I will finish chasing next week end and see whats there ,I would realy like to use this one as I can get 1 3/4 width ! after chasing 3 rings I dont want give up just yet will see will post !
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its a nice thick piece of wood,, so you have the option to do that,,
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Thanks fellas yep it is thick enough to do it ,the more I think about it the more I will give it a shot I'm probably only going to tiller to about 25 lb @20 in before sinew & reverse stringing so before the stave would get under any real stress the sinew will be on and very little if any stress on the wood back ! The interesting thing is I have several staves from the same general area of Mo. and none of the others had any lunar effect ! But been a good day learning some thing new !
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Keep us posted! (-P