Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B on March 23, 2008, 01:41:41 pm
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Has anyone worked on the mystery wood that Justin got from Marie's house last year at the Classic? I started one yesterday. It was believed to be an ash of some sort but nobody knew for sure. After getting into the wood I found some telltale signs of a bore or something I have found in ash under the bark only this was a few inches down into the wood. It seems to work like ash too.
The design I am going with is a Cherokee style war bow of sorts. 68" long, 1 1/2" wide for most of its length(last 10" tapering to 3/4" tips with side nocks). This will be a bendy handle bow so I can get as much wood working as possible. I will probably slim the handle area a bit for comfort sake.
I got a bit anxious yesterday with the band saw by reducing the thickness to about 3/4" and after rasping and scraping the stave the tiller is looking OK but it will come lighter than I was expecting...so I will probably heat treat the belly. I have no specific weight in mind but a successful bow is my goal.
If anyone else has been working on this wood, I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on it. I'll try to post a few pics later today. Pat
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Pat, I dug my stave out a few days ago and was looking it over-it would be nice to get them done by the Classic. I got to looking at it and hoping it wasn't cottonwood ;D I was thinking long bendy-handled bow too.
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Steve, do you know the little "scar" trails that you see with ash. This stave has then down in the wood. This stuff is tough to chase a ring on...thats why I got so aggressive with the band saw.
Well, my tiller tree rope puts me 6' away from the action if the wood fails. ;D I will know something by this afternoon.(either :o or ;D) Pat
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Yep, Pat- a lot of the white ash I cut has those little markings in the cambium layer. I know this stuff isn't white ash, but it could be green or pumpkin ash. I'm glad that you're volunteering as a guinea pig. ;D ;D
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dont know about the mystery wood but i am working on two bows of white ash myself... one for me and one for the wifey. and from the sounds of it all.... it sounds like it is exactly like the wood i have. the little scars to the cambium... even down to the wood itself and its driving me loco :o ??? >:( ??? >:D but anyhoo.. that is my way of it.... i will carve on.....you do the same
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Well, I am claiming this is not good bow wood. You will see in the pics the amount of set it took just getting it tillered to 26"(about 42#) and the limbs are still 1/2" or better. I have heat treated it and will check it out in a few days. Our R/H in very low so I may wait until a rainy day to remove it and see if the heating has helped. I kinda doubt it will.
Pumpkin ash is the closest bark I can find in my Audubon tree book but Eastern Cottonwood could also be an option. I wish we could have seen the leaves. Here are some pics. The first is the bow on its back. Note the amount of set. Then clamped to the form for heat treating. Pat
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Looks like some type of ash to me,, how long was the tree left in the weather before splitting and storing?
wvflintknapper
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Only Marie knows and she ain't talking. ;D When Justin picked it up from Marie's place he brought it back to Twin Oaks. The next day, Sunday, he split it up and we each picked a piece. How long it was on the ground I don't know.
As I was working it today I could tell it wasn't gonna be much. Pretty spongy feel to the bow with low brace. It had a little deflex in it anyway so I was going to heat treat it and give it a slight reflex but with that much set on a poor quality wood(my observation) I don't think it will help much...but we will see. Pat
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Pat at least yer making a bow about time ya got busy ;)
Don't tell Marie her ash is bad :o :o :o Best keep that quiet 8)
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Pat just string it up backwards. Now thats all reflex ! >:D ;D Just kidding, are sure its dry enough?
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pat im 99 percent sure it s cotton wood i got some much of it growin in front of my house and split for fire wood it s almost the same how hard it ? and you got any pic s of the bark befor you took it off ? I MAY BE WRONG BUT LOOKS VERY VERY SILAMAR
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bc search 10th annual tn. classic and look on page 18 lots of pictures of the logs there
Ron
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Here's a pic of the log. I was wondering if it could be cottonwood, too. the bark looks similar, but we don't have any around here so I'm not that familiar with it. If it is, that's even better-the great cottonwood bow contest ;D Cottonwood isn't as useful for making smart-alec comments as ash, though-Marie's cottonwood just doesn't have the same ring to it. ;D
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Still looks like ash to me,, Dark heart wood and the flatness of the bark,,,............Marie's ash is junk ;D
wvflintknapper
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if nothin else you could use it for fireboards for bow/hand drills if its cotton wood.
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I'm afraid it was sitting in Marie's yard to long even if it was only a few days. It was raining nonstop at the time. The walnut I got had a lot of fungus under the bark already. If it is cottonwood it could make good arrows I guess. It isn't anything like our cottonwood so I don't know. Justin
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The bark is thick, corky and deeply furrowed and the wood is light weight and spongy under tension. I don't know what it is but it doesn't seem promising.
If I keep discouraging ya'll you won't want to be bothered building a bow from it and I'll be the winner of the Marie's ash cottonwood bow off. ;D 8) Pat
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That bark does look like cottonwood ???
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I think it was some kind of ash,I have a lot of Cotton wood on my place and it don't look like that.
I will tell you one thing it cooks a mean brat.Most of the ones I got were kind of dotty so I cooked
food with them.I have some of the Walnut left and plan to use it for tips and handled. ;)
Pappy
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Pat, I'll try to start hacking on mine soon. Maybe we could have a "bow with the most set" contest. I think I'm gonna soak mine in some saltwater for a few days before I start tillering it. >:D ;D
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Ya that should do it Hillbilly. ;)
Pappy
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Pat and others, I haven't messed with mine yet. Ridgerunner emailed a couple months after we aquired the staves and seemed to think it was box elder tree(ash leaf maple). I havent the foggiest but trust what you tree experts think. ;D
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I don't think it's boxelder-I've cut scads of them down and it don't look the same. It's something that doesn't grow here in western NC.
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I have just started working on mine. Hope to make a bow for "Mini". Quite now. If this thing has a come apart I don't wont her disappointed.
I stripped the bark off mine the day after I got it home. The inner bark was 1/2" thick maybe thicker in some places. The bark was still "green" when it was taken off. So the log had not been cut for to long of a time. The grain is so crooked on the back of the stave that I have serious doughs as to wheather I can make a bow from it. However, I popped a belly stave off mine. Well, two billets anyway. Both broke right off as they were being split off. These two billets have been spliced together. I hope to make a bow that is linen backed 5' long and pulls 25pounds @ 24" . I agree with Pat. What ever this thing is it don't look to good.
David
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Soaking in salt water.....isnt that pickleing?? ??? Maybe all its good for,and cookin.
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I took her off of the form after almost a week. I heat treated the belly and clamped her to the form last Sunday. Today she came out of the form with a bit more resistance but still week in the belly. I braced her and pulled to 26" about 6 times then unbraced her to find almost as much set as before. This wouldn't by my "go to" bow wood for sure.
I would like to challenge all mystery wood recipients to a shoot off at the Tenn Classic. ;) I'm curious to see what everyone comes up with...if anyone else is curious enough to try. ::) Pat
ps. server won't let me post pics. :(
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Dang I wish I had some of Marie's mystery wood >:(
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Dont look like Cottonwood to me....and it grows all over Here....and in myYard....I have never seen it with such a pronounced dark heartwood....looks more like some member of the Ash Family..
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Pat, I'll try my best to have mine shootable by TOJAM. We'll shoot a round of the course with them or something. At least they shouldn't be hard to brace. ;D
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Pat, I know you are not a big fan of the mass weight thing but if you happen to have a scale handy would you mind weighing the piece you are working on? Thanks Steve
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Steve, Don't forget the Buffalo pi$$ and a half inch of rawhide. ;D
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;D
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It looks like ash to me.
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Steve, Its not that I'm not a fan. I haven't had the time to study and practice your mass theory. One problem I have is I don't have a scale to weigh the stave. I do have an old triple beam that will measure up to 18ozs. and a bathroom scale but It won't work on that low of a weight. Did I see somewhere that I could weigh each end with the other end propped to the same height and figure total weight like that? Pat
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Pat, if you set one end on the scale and hold it level it shoud be pretty accurate, you might try weighing one end and then the other end and averaging the two. They should read about the same anyway. With a real light piece of wood like that once you get it roughed out into the shape of a bow it might give you a fair idea of what you can expect from it. Steve
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Steve, I'll give it a try and report back. Thanks for the quick reply. Pat
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Pat, A Triple- Beam? Just put it on the scale and multiply by by, Kilo's, ounces, or grams. ;)
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Steve, I put each tip on the scale with the other tip on a same level stand. One limb weighed 9.5oz and the other weighed 10oz.(this is a 60's era triple beam scale ;D) The bow is 64 1/2" t/t, 62 1/2" n/n, 1 1/2" wide from the bows center(bendy handle) out 20" then taper to 3/4" tips with side nocks, limb thickness is 3/4" at the handle and 5/8" at the tips.
I realize I can reduce the width of the tips considerably to reduce physical weight. I need to get more bend from the outer 2/3 of each limb also.
This wood is very spongy feeling even after heat treating the belly and it obviously didn't prevent string follow. After relaxing for 24 hours it has about 1" but after brace it was more like 3" or more. Pat
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Pat, I cut some porta carpus lasy year that sounds very similar. Spongy. 14 oz of wood should make that a nice 50# bow with a bendy handle. At 20 oz it should be well over 50# and not showing any sign of follow. Doesn't sound like a true bow wood. Steve
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I think Ill dig my piece out and use Steves formula start to finish. We will find out if it is bow wood or not.
How about 69" for a 29" draw. Parallel limbs to midlimb with a fairly short rigid handle. Justin
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Steve, I'm glad to know it wasn't me. ;D This wood was hard to work with blade tools when trying to get to a back ring. I was surprised how "crappy" of a bow wood it is. Pat
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I worked on mine a bit more this weekend.
This stuff will steam straighten quite well.
However, It seems to be very brittle.
I am going to put the linen backing on it when it gets to floor tiller.
David
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Sounds like some of that second string wood ::)
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I like da Second String woods....like Sycamore...Eastern Red Cedar....Douglas Fir....Siberian Elm....just to name a few....they are more of a Challenge to keep the Limbs in one piece!!!
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Dana, this must apparently be not second-string but benchwarmer wood. ;D
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Or maybe just bench material. :o Justin