Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: JWMALONE on January 29, 2018, 06:23:16 pm
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Who makes a good 8 inch draw knife? I refuse to own a cabinet scraper, I prefer to scrape with a large knife or draw knife. I have a 14 inch Dixie something,cost me 50 dollars and needs sharpening about every 100 scrapes.
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I don't know but in the around the campfire section of this site, they are voting on if we should start a forging section on this site or not. If anyone has a opinion or interested in voting up or down go to around campfire section look for forging post.
Bjrogg
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I have found some excellent draw knives at antique stores.
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I have 3 “vintage” drawknives. A Greeley, a Witherby, and a Fulton. One I borrowed from my dad about 20 years ago, one I gave $25, and one I gave $50 for in antique stores. All are in excellent shape and hold an edge real well. I travel a little so when I have time I stop in antique stores along the way just in case I might stumble on one to good to pass up.
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I have some really good Stanley planes, Disston saws pre 50s I've found cheap here and there but I can never catch the draw knives.
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I have had a few friends forge draw knives for me. None of them will hold an edge like the old ones I buy on ebay. I loose track of how many bows I can make between sharpening. The knives themselves are easy to make but the tempering and heat treating I think requires the slow very controlled method for top quality.
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Try to find an old draw knife. Like 100 years old. They are better quality than the new ones. You can find them at junk/antique stores, auctions, ebay, flea markets, etc. Look for a clean sharp edge and solid handles.
Why the hatred for scrapers? They are a very handy tool for bow making. They can be frustrating when dull. A sharp scraper will pull up big ribbons of wood. I can't imagine making a bow without using a scraper.
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Osage Outlaw, When I started out as a painter I used a stinking scraper every day for God knows how long. I scraped cabinets and molding until I dreamed about it. If a work situation calls for it ill do it, but I hate using a scraper. A good draw knife or large straight edged knife will do the same thing on a bow or similar shaped wood.
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Osage Outlaw, When I started out as a painter I used a stinking scraper every day for God knows how long. I scraped cabinets and molding until I dreamed about it. If a work situation calls for it ill do it, but I hate using a scraper. A good draw knife or large straight edged knife will do the same thing on a bow or similar shaped wood.
Jw, are you talking about card scrapers they are just a flat piece of metal about 2 1/2 X 5" nothing like a putty knife.
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What do you guys mean when you say cabinet scraper? Maybe I'm a moron. Like a Stanley 80.
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it's all about rolling the hook when you sharpen it
cut and paste into a search engine
cabinet scraper site:http://www.primitivearcher.com
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John, you can make a good scraper with old saw blades or any good carbon steel. A(2) good cheap scraper can be made with a cheap pair of scissors with the rivet removed. This will give you 2 scrapers. The one I use mostly is from an industrial band saw, about 1 1/2"x6"x1/8". The 2 long sides are squared and flattened then their corners are rolled slightly by burnishing with a rounded screwdriver shank at about a 2 deg angle causing a slight hook. You'll know how well you did when you get a long, thin curl of wood off of your stave.
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Garlick (UK) makes a good set of scrapers for about $25.00 USD, 4 shapes. They stay pretty sharp, and are versatile. On the other hand, my Buck hunting knife works well, and doesn't cause much hand fatigue, but I've been using knive nearly 70 years. But I am only working on my first self bow!
Haven't had much luck with draw knives and spoke shaves, still have to relearn how to use them. Like the other guys said, flea markets, antique stores(more$), junk stores, maybe pawn shops and garage/estate sales.
Hawkdancer
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I have 4 good drawkives, 2 new and 2 vintage, and have never used a drawknife as a scraper. I wouldn't do that to any cutting tool that I took the time to put a fine cutting edge on.
I wouldn't want to make a bow without a properly sharpened cabinet scraper. Heck I use them all the time... used one yesterday to refinish a hatchet handle.
Get a straight, rectangle shaped 'card' scraper, and a gooseneck scraper, and learn to sharpen them properly. I promise you'll have a fondness for them you never had for a lousy paint scraper. You can thank us later.
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You may also find your drawknives stay sharper a lot longer too ;)
And a whole set of scrapers is a lot cheaper than a drawknife :OK
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JW,
When you chose a draw knife, start out bevel down...I use mine as a scraper and wood remover...Bevel down will give you more control in the beginning...Bevel up tends to dig n quickly if your not skilled with it...
Just my 2 cents, Don
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John, go to an antique shop, garage sales, etc. and find an old one. Be sure the edge isn't pitted. You should be able to get one for $20 or so.
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I Agree with many who have already posted. Look at flea markets and garage sales. 20- 30$ should find you a good vintage draw knife.
But for taking off fine shavings, there is nothing like a good edge on a card scraper. Use mine all the time.
Mike
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What Pat said. I have 3 draw knives. One I inherited from my dad. The other I bought at antique/ second hand tool places.
Jawge
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The best scraper I have found for hogging off wood is a half pair of scissors, the bigger the better. A draw knife makes a lousy scraper in comparison. I like to keep my drawkives very sharp and don't use them for scraping.
I sharpen my scissors scraper with an Accusharp scissors sharpener at a steep angle which rolls the hook on the edge for scraping in the process. It is the hook that does the cutting
These make a rough cut that will need a going over with a cabinet scraper for a final finish.
(https://i.imgur.com/DeIWNud.jpg)
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Once I get to scraper work I prefer to set the bow on my lap and sit down in a chair. I like to hold the bow with one hand and the scraper with one hand. For me the regular 3X5 card scrapers seem to work best for this. They take nice clean very thin rolls of wood off which is what I am looking for I don't want them too aggressive. I use a draw knife of spoke shave and in some cases a rasp for the bulk wood removal. The spokeshave and rasp I can use with one hand so tend to prefer those when I am at the intermediate stage right before floor tiller.
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John, you can buy a scraper set from Lowe's or Home Depot. The one I got years ago had a plain rectangular, one rectangular with one concave and one convex end and a goose neck scraper. I don't use the goose neck often but when needed it comes in real handy around knots and dips.
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I make scrapers out of large band saw blades. There is a how-to post on here about how to roll a burr on the edges. It really helped me out. I roll a burr all the way around and on both sides. The rounded ends work great for concave backs.
(https://i.imgur.com/hoGtWojh.jpg?3)
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I've got one of the Outlaws and it's the best scraper I've ever used.
DBar
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I have an old Blue Grass draw knife, that I have made every bow with since 2001..... It was old when i got it off Ebay, and I have hit it with a file, maybe twice....
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Lemme add my support to everyone that says buy an OLD drawknife. In order to get a good modern draw knife, you are going to pay a heck of a lot of money. I spent years cussing, swearing, and resharpening a cheap piece of modern crap draw knife that had to have been made of some form of iron that was semi-liquid...even debarking a green piece of pine would roll the edge or dull it to butter knife sharpness.
Every second hand store, junk shop, flea market, and garage sale that had a draw knife wanted $25 or more and the blades were always ground down until there was nothing left. Never did score a good find. So I bit the bullet and purchased a good one from Lee Valley Tools. It is the drop forged Austrian model that is Rockwell hardness of 58-60. It came sharp enough to shave a newborn frog's buttocks and all I have done for 8 years is lightly hone with a very fine grit diamond hone. It sells for $50 these days, but I wouldn't hesitate to spend that again if I needed to. I am sick to death of cheap/bad tools. Say what you will about a workman never blaming the tools, but nobody builds fine architecture with a rock and bone.
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JW, I feel your pain brother. I've gotten lucky in flea markets and stuff with old hand planes and saws. Needed a good dove tail saw, had to break down and buy a Veritas, cost me $80 but well worth it. Cant remember if it was lee valley I think I got it from Rockler. I'm going to keep cruising around eBay and see what's up. But ill check out lee valley, I've bought from them before.
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At what point in the bow building process do yall set your draw knife down and not touch it again? And being somewhat new to the use of scrapers im curious, do any of you use them for your final finish(avoiding sand paper or steel wool altogether)?
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I put mine down when I'm done chasing a ring on the back.
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Basically the same as Clint. Sometimes, early in the process a little draw knife work is needed but generally once the back ring is chased it's a rasp and scraper to the end. Now, I do use my bandsaw to cut out the profiles and I guess a draw knife can be used for that.
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I use the drawknife for removing bark, sapwood, and chasing rings. I work quickly with the bevel up for 90% of it, flip it over for finesse around knots, delicate or unusual areas, but then generally put it away, allow it to dry and season, and ultimately progress to cabinet scrapers and sandpaper for the bow's back, and the Nicholson #49, Bowyer's Edge, cabinet scrapers, and then sandpaper for the bow's belly.
No, I don't use cabinet scrapers as my last tool before I finish a bow because it leaves little flats behind and I don't leave flats of any sort on my bows. So I move from them to sandpaper, in progressively finer grades.
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I use my drawknife for 90% of my work. I have only made 11 or 12 selfbows, all Osage. I chase my final ring on the back, thin the belly down, and use one as a scraper on the belly instead of a scraper. I do have card scrapers, but my hands cramp fairly easily and a draw knife is just easier for me to grip. I will use a scraper around knots where it is to close for me to get to with a drawknife. Then I might touch up with fine sandpaper if I feel the need.