Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: StickMark on February 15, 2018, 04:33:42 pm
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When you created a shaft with a breasted taper , how much does that affect spine? I am dealing 95% of the time with mulefat shafts. Barrel tapes is 10 pounds less, correct? What about the breasted taper?
I measure on the "two nails at 26 inches, two lb hanging deflection method" apparatus.
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I think the only difference would be the breasted arrow will be lighter physical weight. It should act like the full taper as far as spine goes.
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I had to look up "breasted". Why would you want an arrow that is thicker at the fletching. It just seems counter to everything I've heard.
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DC,
I just can not leave well enough alone, I guess.
Seriously though, I am looking to build some newer bows to fit what I have learned since 2012 when I began building bows. For the lighter bows, I want as perfect arrow flight as possible. I like how barrel taper straightens out up close (15 yds and under it seems).
The internet talk about the breasted arrows having great flight characteristic, such as flatter trajectory, interest me. Better penetration resulting from paradox recovery at close range and an ability to shoot through the brushy windows at a little further out.
Thinking I will make some and see.
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I think breasted arrows were set up to keep a higher spine but lower physical weight for flight shooting, etc.
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i concur with Pat, they keep the mass down, the spine up, and the foc closer to zero.
the fOC being closer to zero ha some huge advantages in greater distances.
when shooting higher foc arrows- and yes, we know they work for penetration, bone busting and paradox recovery, but to me their biggest disadvantage is after some time in the air, as the velocity starts to peel off, the heavier forend, will start to tip the arrow forward/downward, and this changes the flight attitude. so the arrow starts to aim more and more downwards until its sticks into the earth.
i have heard many folk who shoot EFOC arrows, say that they seem to drop like stones after 30 yards.
if you took two arrows exactly the same weight and fletches etc- one EFOC one normal FOC- and look at their distances shot out of the same bow.
Now, the breasted arrow does the opposite, with the FOC, being closer to zero %, as the velocity peels away, the arrow will maintain a more level flight attitude- assuming a "glide path" and probably landing with a flatter attitude. In turn giving more range.
in flight shooting, the quicker the arrow recovers from paradox is also important,as any energy wasted with less than perfect flight , detracts from distance flown.
would love to see someone do a test with all 3 different types of arrows, same material,shot from a shooting machine.
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My kills are close (and not numerous. Arizona is allowing one antlered deer per year), with only one kill over 20 yards, like 21 yards. Closest was 11 yards. I want quick recovery, and have utilized parallel and the barrel taper. I like how barrel taper recover. Research indicates that, yes, breasted seems to give that flatter shooting advantage, but maybe that doesn't matter at my distances.
Hunting Coues deer, which are not enormous, may not need EFOC. Thinking of building the next series of bows for draw lengths of 25.5 to 26 inches, at draw weights of 43 -47 pounds. Would like to have that perfect flight as soon as possible for great penetration.
With mulefat and 23/62 or 11/32 points, the "thick front-skinny rear" taper takes off some spine, and weight. Too much. Barrel taper allows me to build a set within 25 grains, with maybe an outlier of 50 grains. I like 490 to 525 grains, 125 grain Zwky two blades, and 5.5 inch parabolic fletch.
Time to build a prototype and see.
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i agree- i think that anything one can do to speed up recovery, is a good thing.
my average range here on deer is anything from 5 to about 12 yards( as i think many trad shooters may find similar).
we have the smaller sitka blacktail here- and a std parallel shaft with 125gr heads has no issues with penetration.
i do think that if one really wanted to reduce paradox as much as possible- i might make a self bow- with a kink in the handle( even if i had to heat and bend it in) that would put the shaft as close to center as i could- but stillwithout a cut in shelf.
there would still be paradox - but with the stiffer shaft now required- it would be reduced.
but then again, i shoot deer at 5 yards- and its not a problem.
i do like the thinking behind tail tapers and barrel tapered shafts.
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Listening in to this conversation just tells me how little I still know about arrows :)
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i agree- i think that anything one can do to speed up recovery, is a good thing.
my average range here on deer is anything from 5 to about 12 yards( as i think many trad shooters may find similar).
we have the smaller sitka blacktail here- and a std parallel shaft with 125gr heads has no issues with penetration.
i do think that if one really wanted to reduce paradox as much as possible- i might make a self bow- with a kink in the handle( even if i had to heat and bend it in) that would put the shaft as close to center as i could- but stillwithout a cut in shelf.
there would still be paradox - but with the stiffer shaft now required- it would be reduced.
but then again, i shoot deer at 5 yards- and its not a problem.
i do like the thinking behind tail tapers and barrel tapered shafts.
You are right on par TSA from my experiences.Your previous post is too.Example of natural handle lay out on a character osage for a right handed shooter.This bow shoots very clean and straight at close range sticking them straight in.With a good toleration of different spines also.
(https://i.imgur.com/AUruB0p.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6YE75La.jpg)
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thats a beautiful bow Ed! :OK
give ya 20 bucks for it O:)
seriously, thats a really nice bow!
and thanks!
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Thanks TSA.I'd let ya hold it for $20.00....lol.It's a hunting bow so it's dinged up etc. but osage likes that.....lol.Main concern is to show the center shot type handle on this one.A little better pic of same handle.I shoot heavy FOC for hunting but I'm sure it would shoot those breasted arrows good too.
(https://i.imgur.com/csRqAx3.jpg)
Sometime here I'll run across another stave like this as osage grows around here and I'll get it to ya.Don't need $20.00 for it though.
You probably got your own collection self bows as I imagine some yew up your way can get you the same type lay out of handle.Type of handle might be different though as I like a plain old bulbous type off the knuckle and some like a pistol type grip with a cut in shelf.
Looking forward to winning that chunk of sitka.....Ha Ha Ha.
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Listening in to this conversation just tells me how little I still know about arrows :)
:OK :NN :OK