Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PaSteve on March 05, 2018, 05:12:10 pm
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This is my first post but I've been visiting PA site for a while. There's so much good information and I've learned a lot. I've only made 2 bows and both were from osage. I got a red elm stave a few weeks ago. It was cut last December, bark removed and back & ends sealed with poly. I'm assuming while removing the bark the person had a tough time so there are a few gouges in the sapwood. (I realize it's better to cut elm in the summer for easier bark removal) Anyway, I'm concerned the back is compromised by the gouges. The white sapwood is about 3/8" thick. Should I remove the sapwood & use heartwood as back? Leave as is? Work some of the sapwood down and leave that as the back ...or???? The stave has been inside my house for 2 weeks now and I'm building a drying apparatus from a stove pipe, radiant insulation wrap & a light bulb so I think I'll have the moisture content under control once I start the build. Any info is much appreciated. Thanks guys.
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Really need to see the gouges. Elm has interlocking grain, so you might be OK.
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Tried to post a pic. Can't figure out how to shrik image on my cell phone. The gouges are about 1/16" deep. You can see brown spots where gouges are.
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Hopefully this works.
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More pics.
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Looks more like the guy went through multiple layers. Can we see an end shot? Looks like those brown spots might be the heartwood.
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That looks like growth ring violations. I would chase a clean ring on the back if I was working that stave.
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I don't think the gouges go into the heartwood. As you can see the sapwood is a good 3/8" thick. I guess my next question is...should I remove all sapwood and make the bow out of heartwood only?
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I think You can chase sapwood rings on elm. If so, it would look sharp with 1/4” if sapwood on the back with heartwood belly. I don’t know if the heartwood only is good in elm or not.
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Like Morgan said. If you need to go down a ring, no need to take off all the sapwood, just the damaged ring. Elm is pretty obviously ring porous, and chasing it isn't hard.
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Not so sure that's elm? Never seen elm anything like that. Could be the pics.
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Looks like someone already tried to chase a ring on that stave and their inexperience at doing so clearly shows. Chasing a ring on Elm can be done fairly easily. I wouldn't go down to a heartwood ring, although you could if you wanted to, but the first thick ring in the sapwood
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So, I agree that you should just try and chase a ring in the sapwood. It definitely looks violated, but the bow would look great if you could keep some sapwood on it.
Now I have a question for those with more experience. A couple of you have said it should be relatively easy to chase a ring in Elm. I've only ever chased a ring on Osage, and that was easy to do with my drawknife. For those with more experience, how would you chase a ring on Elm? I'd imagine it would be difficult with a drawknife. Would you rasp it? Or maybe use a scraper?
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Thanks for the responses. I've chased a ring on osage so I'm familiar with the process. It looks like I have a good ring that will leave about 1/8 - 3/16" of sapwood. Mark, you're correct the person obviously didn't know what they were doing removing the bark but hopefully I can correct the issue. Pearly, it definitely is elm...probably is just the pics. I have 72" to work with so I'll start with the end I was going to trim anyway. My plans were for a bow 64" ntn 1 7/8 wide at widest point and about 45# - 50#@ 26". Thanks again. Looks like I definitely came to the right place.
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How about a side shot to see if the sapwood has been gouged almost down to the heartwood. It still looks like it's been dug into more than just the end shot shows.
It's a bit tricky to tell which is high and low spots in the violations though. I guess the dark spots could be cambium if they are high spots.
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Worse case scenario you tear all the sapwood off. I made a rawhide backed elm heartwood several years ago. I got a report this weekend that it still shoots. Its incredibly light in physical weight, even with rawhide.
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Red elm and me have a history.Tension strong of course and plenty elastic too.Light weight though.Very innerlocking grain.Worked best with a rasp and sand paper.Chasing rings with a draw knife no problem though.Watch any knots though.Leave them proud.They make bows that's for sure.I used to call them tastee freeze bows.Light chocolate brown heartwood and white/vanilla sapwood.
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Well, it took me a few hours but I got the stave worked down to one sapwood ring. I now know what you guys mean about the grain on elm. I still have about 1/4" of sapwood after chasing a ring. Roughed out the stave to 2" wide & 66" long...sealed the back and ends with wood glue. Here's a few pics before I applied the wood glue. Hopefully the pics are clear enough. Thanks again for the help.
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More pics
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more
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1 more
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I’d very much like to see the finished bow when you’re done
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Yep just like chocolate and vanilla ice cream.Sounds and looks good for your intentions.Should get 50#'s for sure.It likes heat treatment like most all elms.That can narrow the limbs some then after that then because it will gain draw weight.My red elm here I could'nt get too extreme with the designs on it.Took too much set to suit me.Red elm here is'nt very dense.
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Good luck with it. I'm not terribly fond of Red Elm as it is too variable of a tree, sometimes the wood is good but more often than not it is not so good.
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Looks a lot like most of the elm I have available, and Marc is right. Slippery elm especially varies all over in quality.
Chasing a ring on elm is no harder than osage or locust for sure. The rings are usually thick and well defined, and the difference between the summer and winter rings is obvious by look and texture. It's about the only direction you can cut into elm without it trying to split out a deep gouge. The gouge will usually run out at the next ring (but don't push it.. :P)
Elm does like to heal over lots of tiny surface pin knots, which leaves unexpected lumps. If you chase a ring, you will be exposing little pin-bumps you don't know are there. That can be tricky.