Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: D. Tiller on April 01, 2008, 08:14:09 pm
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I was thinking the other day that I go out hiking a lot in the summer in some of the parks here in the Northwest. Unfortunately there are a lot of people that look at you a bit weird if your carrying a bow ans quiver on your back while hiking. Now my idea is that we should be able to make a bow that would fit inside a PVC pipe type quiver along with its arrows and be able to be covered with a cap to keep out the rain or prying eyes. Now this would mean a bow no longer than from the top of your head to the base of your spine and fit inside a 4" to 5" tube along with at least 6 arrows. The challenge is in making one of these hideout bows! Anyone interested in trying this and discussing different strategies?
David T
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i am very interested what do you have in mind i would love a bow like that wehere i could get a 26" draw from.
is this a 1 peice bow or takedown?
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How about a D-Bow with a Short Draw...and no Anchor Point....say maybe 46-48 inches long Osage....Sinew Backed....with a 18-20 inch Draw for Snap Shooting at Close Range..........
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I like it! Got a 58" bow- that count?
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yeah i got a 54" :)
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This sounds like a fun idea, I'm in.The 46- 48" sounds good, but that is one tall dude if we go base of spine to top of head. ;D. Is there a deadline? It will probably take me a while (little time lots of projects).
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No time limit Rick! I'm just putting this out for a fun one. Maybe we can all submit an article on it to PA sometime?
I think the limiting criteria for this bow is that it can be hidden away in a backpack or special container carried on the back but be accessible and easily strung and shot and then put away again. It seems that there are so many people in the off hunting season that are against anything that smacks of a weapon when they see you out hiking.
Anyone know how long the typical human spine is from top of head to bottom of spine? Hey if we can get it shorter than this length even better. How about a sinew backed Hupa design or Modoc at 36" draw and arround 40# with a 24" draw length or shorter? We may want to stay away from recurving though to make it easier to hide away quickly if a park ranger comes along. Or, a sioux style gull wing center handle section deflexed but the rest of the limbs straight?
How about the arrows? Make them exactly the draw length or as long as the bow so you can take them from the same quiver.
Durability might also be a consideration since you will be packing it arround with you while your hiking. Should be able to take a beating and all weather conditions. So, maybe sinew is out? Sinew would not like wet conditions at all! How about flax thread used as a backing as in the TBBIV? Thin backing of flax fibers to act as the tension component? Maybe the bow should also be able to take game from rabbit up to dear in case of emergency stranding in the woods?
David T
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ok i have a big osage board out in the garage. it has many runoffs but should be ok with a good linen backing. so how about 48-50" with a good linen backing pulling 40-45# at 24" not real heavy but will take deer if need be and i dont think i can push this board much farther.
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I think it would have to be a takedown in order to get enough length to make it a reliable, accurate hunting bow. You could make a 60" bow that would break down into one piece 30" long and the other one with sleeve attached would be 32". The irony is, around here it's perfectly legal to carry a .22 pistol as a sidearm on national forest land at any time, but you can get a ticket for having a hunting bow when hunting season is closed. I often carry a pistol on my side in the woods, and I could pretty much care less what the granola munchers think about it.
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I agree hillbilly! But, I think we need to make it so it can quickly be unstrung and shoved in your pack if someone comes along. I think its more like a concealed carry bow. There but never seen! I think minimum draw length needs to be considered too. If you can get a bow short enough to conceal but pulls 28" or longer, go for it! But it has to be long enough to throw a heavy enough arrow that can at least kill a deer. Heck, how about one that can be strung and left in your pack or carying case and pulled out when you want to use it? Now that would be cool!
Also, do you think we should post pictures after we build it of bow concealed and unconcealed durring a hiking trip?
David T
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Would a laminate be be a possibility? Maybe something 64'' ntn or 62''. And what kind of poundage are you looking at 40 to 50 lbs.? By the way i'm 6'2'' and from belt line to mid neck is 32".
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Hickory, I think it has to be a able to fit in your pack or in a tube that fits along side your pack so it can be concealed. Maybe we should call this a CCB. Concealed Carry Bow! Anything in backing is a go but it should be able to be concealed quickly when out hiking and put into use quickly and still be able to kill a deer if need be.
Hickory there are NA bows that are 36" to 40" and would work great for something like this. In this case short is good!
David T
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I remember seeing a short Japanese "carriage bow" in one of the TBBs that was designed as a "sidearm" bow. It may have been made from steel, though-I don't remember.
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i know the west coast indians made bow that were 36" long but they were vine maple with sinew back
how does an osae board and linen back sound for a short 48" bow
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Can you conceal it? Thats the big picture here. If it can be concealed and not be seen while you go back packing in the woods then its just fine at 48". I'm thinking of Juniper or Yew bow in the Hupa or Modoc style at arround 40" Maybe a bit less and backing it with linnen or nettle fibers. Maybe just one layer to keep the back from blowing. put a bit of reflex in the bow so that it negates any string follow after being strung and an 18" to 20" or 22" draw length.Arrows will be a bit longer than the draw length to add a bit of weight to them. I think 45 to 50# draw weight for my bow! Also looking at a hickory backed flat D bow design about the weight and lengths as the Juniper or Yew bow but with an exotic hardwood belly.
David T
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I have found that carrying a bow and a spear while hiking pretty much leaves the woods to me >:D a little black war paint helps too..Hawk ;D
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I was looking at a takedown that length but i guess it would be a little slow to put together. I think i may be able to come up with something,after all i solve problems for a living.
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Hickory, what do you do that takes so much thinking?
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The little Japanese bows are Baleen.
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I measured my spine to head and came up w/about 36". I like the idea of a 1 pc 40" bow quick and easy to string. No takedown to put together. Drawing about 20-22 inches, 40-45#, Osage D bow, sinew backed w/ skins to waterproof. Possibly Black Locust in the same dimensions (Just happen to have a good dry piece). Do you think this is possible?
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I think it is quite funny that you are suggesting it would take to long to stick two pieces of a takedown together, 2 seconds. You are putting it is a PVC tube with a lid on it that is attached to your backpack. How long does it take to take your backpack off, get the cap off string the bow, pull out and arrow and nock it. ::)
I already have a bow that will fill the need. It is a 69" NTN Ipe bow with a little rubber cap to protect the tip. You use it as a walking stick then string it when you want to use it. 8) Justin
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Nah, Justin! Your missing the point. Idea is reach over your shoulder. Pop the lid or reach in the pack. Pull it out and string it pull an arrow and shoot. Then put it away where it can not be seen.
PVC tube is not what your thinking check out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D4IDg9japI
The idea is a small bow that can be hidden from sight when out hiking. Its also a survival bow if its needed. 69" could not be hidden quickly and is a full length hunting bow. Idea is short and something you can hide away from prying eyes!
David T
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Nah, Justin! Your missing the point. Idea is reach over your shoulder. Pop the lid or reach in the pack. Pull it out and string it pull an arrow and shoot. Then put it away where it can not be seen.
PVC tube is not what your thinking check out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D4IDg9japI
The idea is a small bow that can be hidden from sight when out hiking. Its also a survival bow if its needed. 69" could not be hidden quickly and is a full length hunting bow. Idea is short and something you can hide away from prying eyes!
David T
That is exactly what I was thinking for the PVC except that piece of tube is less than 24" long. You put a 36" piece that sticks up above your head and you will not be drawing your bow from the top. You cant reach 30" above your head. Put a piece on your backpack and try drawing a 30" arrow from it and decide what is the max length of tube you can use.
As for hiding from prying eyes, WHY do I need to hide my walking stick? All the tree huggers have a walking stick. Justin
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I just finished a take down ,its 64 n-n so only about 34 when pulled a part,why wouldn't that work.
It comes down quick ,with one pull and goes back easy. :) I leave the string on when it is taken
down.
Pappy
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D.Tiller I build prototypes and solve manufacturing problems for companies. Pappy has about what i was thinking of. It will work well in many situations from stump shootin to takin deer and allow you to pull full draw length. I can't hit crap without my anchor point.
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Here is what mine looks like. It works great.I am going to post some pictures of the finshed bow in a few day when I get around to getting some good pictures,and will show how it works for those that haven't seen one.It was my first but turned out pretty cool. :)
Pappy
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I think a 3-piece takedown might be even more compact. Use a piece of conduit as your riser and just stick the limbs in either end. I made a bow like this once, never really finished it but I still have the limbs. I used a heavier metal pipe and it was too big, I had it shaped as an oval but it still felt clunky and that was without a wrap so I left it at that. Might have to dig those limbs back out.
Those homemade sleeves Pappy? I haven't seen one with brass on both ends. That'd let you adjust the length of the center section.
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How about this. A 48" take down with a hinge, kept strung with zero brace and/or string keepr. Or with a working handle and two hinges 72" or so. 48" take down arrows with a hinge.
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I already have one.
It is a 1950s or 1960s Ben Pearson fiberglass steel sleeved take down. It was originally light blue in color. In high school I painted it black. I have 6 black arrows to go with it. I was once denied entrance to a renaissance faire with my archery gear, a bit of a pet peeve for me. So I decided that a "map case" would be an ignorable carry in item. I used a pair of tubes, some cloth and foam and made a case that holds it all together and works as a quiver too. Since then I've used it this way exactly zero times. Funny to me too.
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Come on guys! This is to get away from takedowns and make a light concealable bow. Take downs are nice but your still packing extra weight when you consider the handle and the extra length. Plus, If you loose half of the bow by having it fall out of your pack your bow wont work.
If I'm up in the mountains here in the NW on a three to five day hike I want light weight and easy to put away bow. Maybe even one I can leave strung in its case. Sinew is nice too but here in the northwest it rains a lot! Especially in the mountains. I think we need to think of bows that can be taken into any environment and not have to worry about the materials they are mad of.
Justin, you can always place the tubes openning at shoulder height. You can also have two tubes, one for the arrows on the right side of your pack and another on the left side for the bow. Or have on big wide tube on your right that contains the bow and another smaller one for the arrows you put inside the larger one and connect it to the larger tube so the opennings are at the same height!
David T
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I believe what your after has already been made:
http://www.sevenmeadowsarchery.com/merchant.ihtml?id=32&step=2
I still think that a takedown isn't much penality to carry around but thats just me.
Cheers,
Grant
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I see a bow!!! Failed the first test of CCB (concealed Carry Bow) or Backpack Bow!!! ;D
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How about a hinge bow? This could be pulled out, straightened and strung almost as fast as a short bow and maybe be more practical. I haven't yet found a hinge fitting strong enough though.
Another option may be a butanese style bamboo bow. these are quite capable of accurate long distance shooting so should be OK for hunting as well. The pics I have seen show the bowyer nailing the bamboo slat together and then binding the handle overlap. it should be quite easy to come up with some simple and quick way of assembling to two bamboo slats, stringing and shooting. This could even be as basic as a couple of wing nuts, or maybe something a little more gracefull and primitive.
Mark in England
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I like the way your thinking Mark! ;D That would be a solution to the size problem. But isn't that getting away from the challenge though? Still makes a full sized bow. Its concealable though!
My main reason for the challenge is to put limiting factors on the bow and see what people come up with. I kind of like the idea of a bow thats small enough to hide out and still be ready to go. Kind of like carrying a concealed firearm, pull it, shoot it, put it away.
How about a deflex/reflex design? deflex slightly from the handle so the main bending area does not take much strain when strung then reflex the tips just enough to elliminat string follow and bring the FD curve up a bit at brace height on the deflex design to equal that of a longer bow? Keep an 1" to 1 1/2" full length or pyramid design with slightly bending handle? How about low braice heght so it does not strain the limbs on a short bow of say 36"? Maybe flax backing or nettle backing?
David T
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David who looses half of their bow? ::) Beside I thought you were putting a cap on the tube. ???
What draw length are you looking for. A 18" draw is going to require a bow in the 36" range and probable sinew backed at that. The other option would be 36" serious reflex deflex recurve much like Marc's hickory backed osage bow in the bow of the month contest. Neither are practical as concealed bows. A 36" tube with the top at shoulder height will still hit me at mid thigh and I am 6'3". Do you have any idea how anoying that would get after you hiked 100 yards much less 5 miles. If you want to carry a toy, go ahead. If you want an effective bow you are going to have to go takedown of some sort or think walking stick cammo. Justin
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Justin, lets see what you can come up with under these conditions! Check out the Modoc designed bows and the Hupa of the Northwest. Or some of the Pueget Sound bows. They are sometime less than 36" pulling at least 45# at 18". 32" would make one that would work. Lets play with designs and materials and see what we can come up with under these constraints. ;)
David T.
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How many 36 inch Paddle Bows have you made??? I prefer Paddle Bows over any other style...but I have built mine Larger to get over the Drawbacks of a small Bow...I have gone from the Norm to 60-66 inches in length and gained cociderable Power and Bow Life over their smaller counterparts....
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Guys, the challenge it'sself is the point. ::) It's not necessarily the practicality, though it is convenient to have a bow that's less than about 40", and lot's of fun. :)
I know that it is far more logical to make a take down, but this is a challenge! Just go for it!
David, I'm in. It has to be less than what? 40"? 36"?
Sean
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I think an all-bamboo design would probably work pretty darn well.
Does the bow have to be braced in the "holster" or just fit in there unbraced? And what are your minimums for draw-length and weight?
Cheers,
Grant
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OK David if you insist here is my entry. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3198.0.html Justin
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ive made a semi serius one that looked like a walking stick with string on it. i brought it into the park and shot at stuff with it. then when someone walked by a unstrung it. very cool
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Wow!!! Lots of ideas out there. I still like the idea of a 1 piece for the challenge. I'm new to the whole bow building so my input should be taken with a grain of salt. Just think if you're really stuck on the idea of a takedown, blow everybodys mind and make a 2 pc. NTN 46" bow. Now that would be concealable. :o I know putting a 2pc. together takes no time at all, but not putting one together is even faster. ;D ;D
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Hickory, 2 1/2" wide, 45" long, with a 1 3/4" wide handle (Western coast style D bow), recurved tips to hold the string. 55# at 22" (maube out to 24"). Toast the belly to get the draw weight, not thickness. No backing. Having abused hickory a great deal, it would do well like this. What do you guys think?
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Ok! Lets define the rules:
1) One peice bow. No take downs! (We want to push our limits!)
2) Bow must be less than 40" long and/or conceilable in your pack and not interfeer with your hiking.
3) No sinew! (Yep! You got it. Its a challenge!) Reason is that sinew will react to moisture and when you hike in incliment weather or cross a stream its going to get wet no matter what ya do.
4) Any material any backing goes. As long as its not sinew!
5) Bow must be strong enough to take a deer with.
6) Draw length as long as you can get away with. (Sound good to all of you?)
7) Must show a picture of bow after its built and show it strung, unstrung and concealed. Bonus - Go get a deer with it durring hunting season or any other game! ;D
Bonus #2 !!! See if you can make one that can be strung all day and still be hidden in your pack or carry container!
How do those sound?
Justin, sorry it's backed with sinew but I do like it! Looks like a blast to shoot and fun to make!
Yankee, I made 3 and only one came through but the one that did is sweet.
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Ok! Lets define the rules:
1) One peice bow. No take downs! (We want to push our limits!)
2) Bow must be less than 40" long and/or conceilable in your pack and not interfeer with your hiking.
3) No sinew! (Yep! You got it. Its a challenge!) Reason is that sinew will react to moisture and when you hike in incliment weather or cross a stream its going to get wet no matter what ya do.
4) Any material any backing goes. As long as its not sinew!
5) Bow must be strong enough to take a deer with.
6) Draw length as long as you can get away with. (Sound good to all of you?)
7) Must show a picture of bow after its built and show it strung, unstrung and concealed. Bonus - Go get a deer with it durring hunting season or any other game! ;D
Bonus #2 !!! See if you can make one that can be strung all day and still be hidden in your pack or carry container!
How do those sound?
Justin, sorry it's backed with sinew but I do like it! Looks like a blast to shoot and fun to make!
Yankee, I made 3 and only one came through but the one that did is sweet.
David, you been smoking crack with all those tree huggers haven't you. Why not add another rule. It must shoot a 800 grain arrow at 2000000000 fps. Set the crack pipe down and get a clue. Justin
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Ok! Lets define the rules:
1) One peice bow. No take downs! (We want to push our limits!)
2) Bow must be less than 40" long and/or conceilable in your pack and not interfeer with your hiking.
3) No sinew! (Yep! You got it. Its a challenge!) Reason is that sinew will react to moisture and when you hike in incliment weather or cross a stream its going to get wet no matter what ya do.
4) Any material any backing goes. As long as its not sinew!
5) Bow must be strong enough to take a deer with.
6) Draw length as long as you can get away with. (Sound good to all of you?)
7) Must show a picture of bow after its built and show it strung, unstrung and concealed. Bonus - Go get a deer with it durring hunting season or any other game! ;D
Bonus #2 !!! See if you can make one that can be strung all day and still be hidden in your pack or carry container!
How do those sound?
Justin, sorry it's backed with sinew but I do like it! Looks like a blast to shoot and fun to make!
Yankee, I made 3 and only one came through but the one that did is sweet.
Sorry ta dissapoint ya but sinew will NOT get wet NO MATTER what ya do ! Where do ya get this info ? From ya chrystal ball ?.bob
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originally i thought htis would be a cool concept. a concealed bow.
my first thought was a takedown,then i thought a walking stick, now i'm thinking too many damn rules on how i should conceal my bow.
so now i'm thinking, screw it i dont care if anyone sees it or not. jmho
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hey .. quit whinnin.. get to shaving and cutting.. and lets see some ersults.. you make my platoon sound not so whinny... and that is saying alot
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whos whinnin.
i just dont think thats the right definition of concealed,it should be as long as its not recognized as a weapon.
they dont tell me what kind of holster to carry with or what type of handgun to carry they just tell me keep it concealed so as not to be seen.
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Gosh guys, don't participate if you don't want to. No one is forcing you to. The only thing is, if you want to participate, don't question or comlain about the rules. Especially don't complain about them, because if you don't like them, you're under no obligation to keep to them. Just build one to your own specifications, and show us, but not in the contest.
Sean
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Gosh guys, don't participate if you don't want to. No one is forcing you to. The only thing is, if you want to participate, don't question or comlain about the rules. Especially don't complain about them, because if you don't like them, you're under no obligation to keep to them. Just build one to your own specifications, and show us, but not in the contest.
Sean
Sean, let us know when the rule list is complete. You see, when this started there were no rules except concealed. Guys say takedown but then a rule is created for no takedown. I post a bow with sinew and all of a sudden no sinew is allowed. So when you say don't complain about the rules, maybe you should get some and stick to them.
Bob is sooooo right. The Massey finish is well known to many bowyers as being able to protect sinew even when it has been dropped in a river for a week. The Indians had ways of doing it for hundreds of years that are not so well known. I assure you it can be done and with all natural materials.
Sailordad, I'm with you. There are many practical ways of doing it but practicality and common sense seem to be against the rules so why bother. Justin
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Justin and sailordad you didn't read my earlier posts. If you don't like the rules you really don't have to participate. I have asked what you wanted to define the rules to be so I put some out there. The object here is a challenge and see what people come up with. Everyone and I mean everyone comes up with takedowns or sinew backing to get a bow short. Lets see what can be done without sinew or takedowns. Lets push the envelope on what primitive bows can achieve. Plus its a pretty cool concept having a bow you can put away and carry on your back out of site and out of mind. Even better if its still strung!
So who's up for the challenge?
David T
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Don't most city park forbit shooting of bow in the north west? at least they do here. State parks different story, Thought ya could hunt in a state park as long as no people were around correct me if I'm wrong.
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OK, so reading the rules I wanted to know if a laminated bow is ok?
What about recurves?
As long as I meet the length and draw weight requirements I assume....
Alex
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David, you been smoking crack with all those tree huggers haven't you. Why not add another rule. It must shoot a 800 grain arrow at 2000000000 fps. Set the crack pipe down and get a clue. Justin
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Justin....did you misspell that last word.....Clue.....you meant........ GLUE....didnt you!!!!!!!!!!
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I think I'm gonna go build one of those Bhutanese takedowns anyway. been wanting to.
Don't like short bows so ya'll have fun!
:P
Justin you need to behave!
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I think one thing has been forgotten in this post.
You might be able to build a bow that can be consealed or does not look like a bow.
But, what about the arrows? It will be hard to build arrows that don't look like arrows.
If you are someplace where bows and arrows are not allowed and "The Man" ask to inspect your goods???
Well, he will find the arrows.
However, I have for some time thought about building a "walking stick" bow. I think it could be done with bamboo. Two pieces, left round, joined in the middle with a plug. About 6' long, pulling 40 or so pounds.
David
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Lets see what can be done without sinew or takedowns. Lets push the envelope on what primitive bows can achieve. Plus its a pretty cool concept having a bow you can put away and carry on your back out of site and out of mind. Even better if its still strung!
So basically all we really have to do is change the laws of physics I guess. :)
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Sounds like fun,but no thanks,I'll be watching what yall come up with tho.On second
thought I only draw about 18 inches most of the time anyway. ;) ;D ;D
Pappy
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Ya left High Resulotion pictures out of the rules...bunch of ameteurs ::) :)
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I'll give it a go but it would be hard to beat Justin's. Flax-backed osage, 36", deflex/reflex, 45# at 20" is my goal.
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i dunno about a concealed carry bow but i might try it. until then ill be sure to keep my .45 handy to protect me from tree hugging anti-hunters.
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OK, so reading the rules I wanted to know if a laminated bow is ok?
What about recurves?
As long as I meet the length and draw weight requirements I assume....
Alex
Yep! Revurves and laminates are fine. As long as you can get the draw weight, length and show it can be concealed your good to go!
David T
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Ya left High Resulotion pictures out of the rules...bunch of ameteurs ::) :)
I thought touching up the photos could be allowed! ;D
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i dunno about a concealed carry bow but i might try it. until then ill be sure to keep my .45 handy to protect me from tree hugging anti-hunters.
I'm of the same mind too. But this sounded like a fun project. Some of the city folk up here get jumpy if your carying a walking stick arround with ya! ;D
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I'll give it a go but it would be hard to beat Justin's. Flax-backed osage, 36", deflex/reflex, 45# at 20" is my goal.
Great! I'm thinking along simmilar lines. Later in the year I'm hoping to harvest some stinging nettles and try to make one using the nettle fibres for backing. Instead of Ossage though I'm thinking a different type of hardwood. May even try Yew or Juniper to see what will happen with a lighter wood.
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Don't most city park forbit shooting of bow in the north west? at least they do here. State parks different story, Thought ya could hunt in a state park as long as no people were around correct me if I'm wrong.
Hi PK! Up here I believe its illegal to carry a firearm in the National Parks but it OK in the National Forests. Dont know about City Parks but I wont be hiking there anyways.
I would have to look up the rules again on bows but I dont think there are any. Could be wrong! But my motive is that most city folks out hiking tend to get a bit jumpy seeing a guy carying any type of weapon these days. Also, dont want to always be carying a bow in one hand or the other all day. Sometimes I need both hands out on the trail when getting into tight spots.
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You might want to check into the local laws defining "firearm." Nowithstanding that the "fire" part of that is derived from the use of gun powder, some define that as including a bow, others not.
Also, whether or not it is legal, an arrow could be concealed in a walking stick.
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You guys are too funny.
D. Tiller should have added another rule.....NO TANTRUMS. >:D
Some ideas that have not been mentioned yet:
Snake bow...Self-explanitory....just start wrestling with it or throw it down on the trail and start taking pictures...."Wow, that's a cool snake!"
Paddle bow.....make the bow look like an actual paddle (for a canoe) and ask passersby "Hey! You know where the nearest lake is??".
Psycho bow....a bow that looks like a bloody axe (no one will mess with you...and it helps if you look like Jack Nicholson in The Shining).
Boomerang bow.....when someone walks by just throw it away and it will come back when they are gone.
Seriously.....most of us have read at least the first TBB and making as small bow is not a problem if it's wide enough. True, you will look like a trail sign while holding the bow but at least you can kill a deer with it. ;D
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Oh yeah...this was posted on April fool's day, was it not?.....hmmmmmmmm......... ::)
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Oh yeah...this was posted on April fool's day, was it not?.....hmmmmmmmm......... ::)
No April fools here! ;D Just want to see what can be made for hiking arround with and make it concealable. There are a lot of smart guys here who should really have a good time with this one! I know I will!!!
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Tiller....hope you don't think I'm making fun of this whole thing....just wanted to lighten the mood. ;D
It's a great idea, really. 8)
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I'm up for it. Gotta go get a hickory stick :).
As for funky arrows, no one around here thinks an arrow made of wood and under 30" is really a weapn anyway ;D!
I can also use this as an excuse to use "reverse staving" 8)
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I'm in, I'm fine with the rules. It's all for fun. I have a plan but don't want to divlulge it as it will probably show my inexperience. Is it possible to ward off a compression fracture by adding linen or a thin strip of boo to the belly?
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I'm in, I'm fine with the rules. It's all for fun. I have a plan but don't want to divlulge it as it will probably show my inexperience. Is it possible to ward off a compression fracture by adding linen or a thin strip of boo to the belly?
Dont think compresion failures could be stopped by linnen. But I could be wrong! Now boo might work. Horn is always a good bet! Some others here might be more knowledgeable about it though.
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Paddle bow.....make the bow look like an actual paddle (for a canoe) and ask passersby "Hey! You know where the nearest lake is??".
I've thought seriously about it, make it about 5 feet long, and keep the center narrow and round, then make the very ends really wide (at least 4"-5"), then you can string it up shoot from your kayak! ;D
David, yep I'm in, I'm thinking about an osage selfbow, I like 'em! ;)
Sean
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Wait a second, 5 feet? I mean 72-80". ;D
Sean
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This is something that a lot of us have obviously thought of and unfortunately the times (like Hillbilly alluded to) more or less demand a low profile when hiking in forests that have become more like city parks in many places. But remember this: The most concealable object is the object that lies in plain sight and yet is never recognized as such. A walking cane that is actually a bow or a stick that folds in two at a hinge that is actually a bow. Rules for any project simply dampen creativity. I see PVC and I immediately think that something is being concealed, though it can be simply a rod and reel. There are many possibilities here. But with so many creative minds out there the answers to this question should get very interesting.
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It wont look like PVC when I'm done with it. Look more like a leather tube.
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just hang some lures and stuff from the tube and that IS what someone would think.
shame about the sinew... I love the stuff. :-\
possum
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Ahh! But what a challenge!!! ;D
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My brother and I are both in :). We started abusing some wet hickory today. When they start drying out we'll be able to get the closer to finished bows.
I think this contest is more about who can get the most from a little bow- at least for me. Kyle's already trying to out-do me, his is 4" shorter than mine :D!
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Cool Kegan! I have not even started yet. The ol'soap factory is keeping me busy. One day I will again retreat to my man cave. At least it smells prety good!!! ;D
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Started mine at work today, 39 15/16" You said under 40 right ;D
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Sure! 39 15/16" still comes under 40!
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Man, I can't wait to see what you guys come up with. This is going to be very interesting!!
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Acutally, I've got two in the works. I allready had a hickory short bow going, and I've gotten an osage one atarted to. I love how thesse bows can be finished in very little time! :)
Sean
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alright guys...bowmunky13 and I have been working on a bow for a about a day...we took river cane given to us by mike123 we "strung" them together with twine and then put some duck tape on it to help with strength. It is 50 inches. And draws 20 lbs at 26 inches. We have shot it and it shoots really good...yes I know that it isn't a standard bow but for consealment we went with something thinner that we figured would have a nice snap... as for the ducktape and twine we decided to go with something that most of us would have in our car or truck on a hunting trip. It can fit in a backpack and is quicky strung, and because of the materials used you could make it at camp....we will post some pictures soon.
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alright alright I know it isn't 40 inches or shorter but with our ruck sacks we can leave it strung and they are consealed....so we figured that it would still work.
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Nice going! But, sorry, still under the weight limit of 45#'s. Concealed is good though. I really do want to see a picture of it still. Sounds pretty cool to me! ;D
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I'm starting the bending on mine. One recurve today, another tomarrow, deflex Thursday. So it should be done by next Sunday or so. My brother Kyle is just a few steps behind me. These little bows are stout little buggers- had it about 1/4" thick at the tips and it was bending at about 80# :o!
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Hey! Cool Kegan. Now I got to get into the shop and start on building one. It's going to take me some time since I only use hand tools. Time, there seems to be such a short suply of it too! ;D
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talk to kegan he somehow makes time with some sort of "magic" :)
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Wish he could teach us how he does it! We could actually get everything done we would like too!
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Dang Kegan-- I'm still in the thinking stage. You'll be hunting with yours before I get mine on the tree. ;D
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OK, I'm in. Just one question though... how many arrows are we carrying? Can we make a bowfishing set up with just the one arrow and maybe a spare? ??? I figure I may as well get some use out of this thing. ::)
Under 40" and not 40", right?
possum
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Hey Possum! Great to hear your doing the challenge. Bows need to be 40" and under. As many arrows as you can hide out. Bow 45# and up. Cant use sinew and cant turn it into a takedown and your set! Looking forward to seeing what everyone will come up with.
The woods will never be the same again! ;D
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I already have a mess of projects lined out right now or i would be all over this. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with. I may pull a few late nights and try to come up with somethin 8)
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The magic is a hatchet and a lack of a social life ;D. Not having any responsibilities besides a few chores leaves more time to whack at wood with a hungry tree-chopper ;).
Haven't started on arrows yet. What kind of points should we put on them? I have some multi-flora that I want to try for arrows but I'm still planning these out.
What kind of case do we put these things in? Does it have to be PVC?
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Kegan, as long as things are hidden and it does not scream "BOW/ARROWS RIGHT HERE!!!" you're A OK!!! Might want to make one arrow a hunting point since we are going to need the ability to take down a deer. But really anything goes for these bows.
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Kegan- Cherish those years of little responsibility.....They go by too fast.
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D. Tiller- Excellent. Don't know as I have big enough PVC around here. Okay. I was thinking two blunts and two small broadheads (I have some of my older, smaller ones).
ricktrojanowski- I know. Helping my dad out over the summer makes me thank the Great Spirit I still have two more years of highschool.
So far the bow has working recurves and is deflexed. Gotta back it and finish drying/tillering. I have a question- are string-bridges allowed?
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Jeesh! Keegan your going to put string bridges on it! As in Asiatic composite bow string bridges as seen on Chinese and Mongol bows? You really do have to much time on your hands! Lord to be 16 again. ;D
Sure! Why not? Go for it!
David T
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So does this bow have to be under 40" when strung? Because I'm thinking nice long static tips could make this work, but then again I'm no good at short drawing.
Heck, maybe I just need to get working on it and call it done. It's gonna be Ipe with either Hickory or Bamboo backing, with perhaps some ears bent in.
Cheers,
Grant
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David ifin ya would have made this a six pack challenge I would most likely be on board >:D
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David ifin ya would have made this a six pack challenge I would most likely be on board >:D
I'll hide a six pack easy. In my gut no one will ever know.
Kegan- 2yrs of highschool and don't forget 4+years of college depending on how much fun you're having. ;D
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So does this bow have to be under 40" when strung? Because I'm thinking nice long static tips could make this work, but then again I'm no good at short drawing.
Heck, maybe I just need to get working on it and call it done. It's gonna be Ipe with either Hickory or Bamboo backing, with perhaps some ears bent in.
Cheers,
Grant
Sorry, 40" Total so you can hide it away strung or unstrung. I really want to see how good you guys are! >:D ;D
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Ok, update on whats going on over here:
First bow 33" long, 1" wide 45#@22". Raw bamboo back and belly with 3" siyahs. The bow had a C shape unbraced profile and so when strung the handle was set back and the outer limbs reflexed. At full draw it looked like a Korean horn bow (what I designed it after) and was super fast! ;DThen out of now where the glue failed in the fade area and the bamboo kinked. :PI failed the bow since it wasn't safe to use anymore but I can show pics later.
Second bow, still working on the design but I think its gonna be same as the first except Im going for an extreme reflex/deflex design. This one might be a little longer though. Cant wait to see what you guys come up with! >:D
Alex
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Ok, update on whats going on over here:
First bow 33" long, 1" wide 45#@22". Raw bamboo back and belly with 3" siyahs. The bow had a C shape unbraced profile and so when strung the handle was set back and the outer limbs reflexed. At full draw it looked like a Korean horn bow (what I designed it after) and was super fast! ;DThen out of now where the glue failed in the fade area and the bamboo kinked. :PI failed the bow since it wasn't safe to use anymore but I can show pics later.
Second bow, still working on the design but I think its gonna be same as the first except Im going for an extreme reflex/deflex design. This one might be a little longer though. Cant wait to see what you guys come up with! >:D
Alex
Thats the sort of design I was thinking about. Did you use a bending handle or fit a center lamination? What sort of wood for the Siyahs? What sort of glue did you use? And finally, did you saw, bend or laminate the siyahs?
I'm personally thinking a thin Ipe belly with bamboo backing at about 1" wide should do the trick, as long as the Ipe can take that much curvature. On the other hand I do have a fair amount of scrap bamboo, so I may use that.
Good to know that someone else has had some success with the design I think will work. It's either this or else something cable backed.
Cheers,
Grant
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The handle was set back, but did nott have a center lamination so it was free to bend at full draw.
The siyahs were just some scrap wood I had, very light, close to pine in weight.
I used titebond, I think I just got a bad bottle of it as I have been having some failures with it recently.
Usually it hold up just fine....
The siyahs were just some quickly thing I did after I found out my recurves were too thin to remain static,
so I cut the recurves off and then sawed out the siyahs at 60 degree angles or so, notched the bottom and
tied them onto the limb tips. Its very easy to do and If I made it more permanent you would not be able to take
them off, very solid and it never came off even at full draw.. I think I will do this on the next one as well.
The only reason I have not used ipe is because I do not have it. I think if you put in less reflex than mine it will perform
better for the ipe. The only reason I induce so much reflex with bamboo is because I usually loose 25-50% of what ever I put
into it. This changes however if a core lamination is added. Good luck!
Alex
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How far off from being static were the recurves when just glued in? I'm thinking that perhaps adding a core just in the siyahs might do the trick, I've seen some Korean bows with fairly wide but think tips.
So you just tied the siyahs onto the tips of the bow with sinew? No glue or anything? Thats a very interesting way of giving them a try, I think I'm just found a way to use all that scrap Douglas Fir 2x4 I've got kicking about.
I've had limited success getting bamboo to bend with the power fibers on the inside of the curve, do you find it works much better when it's thinned right down?
Thanks for the tips, you've got a heck of a lot my bamboo experience then I do.
Cheers,
Grant
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Well lets just say they were not recurves anymore after the first bend :)
Yes, I was thinking of adding a core just in this area like you say, it would have
saved it, no doubt.
I am making Korean bows at the moment and yes the tips are quite wide, about
1"-- 3/4" wide and in the center it has a spine which is 1/2" thick but the shoulders
are about 1/4". This makes the tip very light but strong at the same time.
Yes, no glue, just tied on. Also, I did not even use real sinew, just artificial sinew! It worked
better than I thought it would, but real sinew would be more solid.
When you say you have not had success, was it because it became too stiff? I usually make
the backing thinner than the belly but yes,the belly is also quite thin as well, maybe 3/16"
Alex
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Well I was just experimenting with steaming boo. I tried dry heat but it just seemed to open cracks. I only had it thinned down to 1/4" though so still quite thick. The pieces that were bent with the power fibers on the outside of the bend did quite well considering I did a 90 degree bend with perhaps a 2" radius, the ones with the power fibers on the inside seemed to delaminate the core fibers but leave the power fibers completely intact.
More experimentation seems to be required. I will be back in my shed next week and try a few things with thinner bamboo, glued-in bends only and larger radius'. I will also heat tember the belly after glue-up.
Cheers,
Grant
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Ahh ok, ok I see what you say now. Yes, bending bamboo like that is tough,
this is why I always either thin the backing a lot for small radius bends or heat bend
it with dry heat and oil from the skin side on larger radius curves.
This way I can keep the backing thicker.
I never steam bamboo into shape, I think it bends better with dry heat and had
the same experience as you with steam and boiling.
Bamboo does not have to be very thick to hold its shape. If you make the backing
maybe 1/8" thick and the belly full thickness, this should be about 3/8" thick or a little
more. This thickness is plenty to hold a static recurve on bows up to 65# or more depending
how long the recurve is. (maybe 6" or so, shorter is better)
Mine was only 3/16" thick total because I was expecting to get a lot of weight.... :P
BTW, I would be cautious about heat tempering the belly after glue ups unless the glue you use
is heat resistant.(epoxies might be ok for this, so Ive heard) My experience with titebond is it will
de-laminate while you heat it. I suggest you do any heat tempering before the glue up though,
just in case.
Alex
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Precisely the information I was wondering about.
So even just glued-in recurves with no stiffener should be good to go as long as the backing is 1/8 and the belly is 3/16? That makes the whole project seem much less difficult.
I've heard bamboo looses a lot of reflex, should I start with around 12" or so then? reverse stringing it during the drying?
I tried heat-treating after glue-up and I had the same experience as you did.
I may still use the Ipe in a very thin lamination, experimentation is the name of the game here.
Cheers,
Grant
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Wow!You guys really are pushing the material limitations. I just love it! Show your successes and failures. We can all learn a lot from wins and losses.
David T
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This is all getting so good ;D! Sounds like it'd also be a cool article for PA.
Once the deflex sets and my dad is done working on the car for the night, I'll back the bow and start on the arrows. Kyle and I are now debating some footed poplar shafts for these. This is fun :).
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Wow! You two go fast.
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Wow! You two go fast.
Twenty minutes of scraping and shaping a night. With little bows, it goes a long way :). Arrow might take longer though, I think they might be more wood on them than the bows ;D.
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Heck I'm still thinkin bout this un :( Thanks Tiller as if my brain dosen't go in enough circles, And you have to go do some experiment on us. thanks Bro. ;D
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This has been rolling around in my mind for a while. Just had to get it out and see what happens!
David T
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Well, here is a pciture of the arrows I made up today for the bow, and the bow thus far. It's soakked (about 25% MC) so it needs drying.
The arrows are poplar 23/64", up to a 25" draw, with four 4" parabolic feathers we had lying around that I bought from Cabela's years ago. Doweled them up this morning, but don't know how much they wiegh. I had the old points sitting in my drawer, so I took them out and touched them up. One shaft broke in the making, so I figured just go with three broadheads. They're two inches long, an inch wide, and made from the excellent bandsaw stock sent to me by Venisonburger :).
[attachment deleted by admin]
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This bow breaks down into 3 parts. The limbs are 29" long so it could fit into a quiver and it pulls 50# @ 28". Does that qualify?
(http://marc.stoneflake.net/Simple%20Composite%20Bows/Pau%20Ferro%20Takedown/Combination%20pic.jpg)
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great!
kegan how long is yers?
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Hi, Marc St Louis did you make that bow? It looks great i want one of those!!!!!! Thanks for your time.
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ya thats one awesome bow
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great!
kegan how long is yers?
39 3/4" long bfore curving.
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Sorry Mark but it has to be one piece bow. It's a beautiful bow though. Nice design to it!
Kegan, nice work! That was fast. What's it made out of again? Now to see if it will hold together for shooting!
David T
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Yep, Kegan, that's a nice looking bow. I'm waiting to see how it turns out.
Sean
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I'm looking at the picture of your bow Kegan. Only thing I think may be a problem for it is that the reflex may be a bit much. Though that may change when you get it strung for the first time. I hope it holds together!
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I built a little HHB bow about 10 years ago that was about 3' long. The idea was I was going to bring it along in a quiver for Rabbits while I was hunting Deer with a gun. It pulled about 30# at a very short draw. The problem was that it just wasn't practical
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And Marc, that other one's pretty nice too. ;)
Of course, when aren't yours?
Sean
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It's hickory, with about an inch of deflex and working recurves. I wanted some more but with the string bridges (really just little blocks of pine) I intend to add, I figured it woudn't have any energy stored in the first few inches of draw- making it a poor choice for shooting at deer. I hope the recurves hold, as my experience with short straight bows has been anything but promising.
Just have to wait for it to dry and finish it up. In the meanwhile I'll start work on the case to hold this all.
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Kegan, looking at that bow, I can just feel the nice, smooth draw.
Wow, you get things done fast. You're almost done with everything but the bow, aren't you?
Sean
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Kegan, looking at that bow, I can just feel the nice, smooth draw.
Wow, you get things done fast. You're almost done with everything but the bow, aren't you?
Sean
Thanks- I'm using everything I know on this thing ;). Yup, almost done. I'm working on the containers right now (different materials), and the bow's drying right now.
Can't wait to see yours. And everyone else's for that matter ;D!
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How are folks' bows coming, and how many of us are there who are doing this thing? ???
I'm almost done with mine, I decided on hickory, as I already had one the right size laid out on a hickory board stave. I reflexed the handle and recurved the tips, it has a gull wing shape. I just have to final tiller it.
Sean
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Mine snapped at a bad spot in the wood- my brother's still going strong though :).
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Have not had time to start yet! Been at the Classic and had a blast though. Will be getting on it later this summer if I have time. Looking to get some nettle fibers for a backing material and make mabe a wide short indian style bow with a crowned nettle backing and maybe some reflecxing and deflexing going on. Still thinking about the design and may change it a bit as time goes on.
David T
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I have created the ULTIMATE backpack bow!!!!! :o
Well, not really LOL It was going to be the ultimate bow but it failed and now Im left with a 10# bow with tip alignment problems. :P
Its still pretty amazing bow and will make a nice "toy" while it lasts. Well, I guess I post it anyways just for lookin at. ;D In the morning of course.....
49" ntn
39" strung length
10#@26"
14" of unstrung reflex
The bow is Bamboo with spliced in mulberry (sapwood) siyahs and ash wood handle. It has sinew backing and was suppose to have a raw boo belly, but I screwed up on the gluing process and so that aint gonna work anymore. Just gonna start over again the right way. I think I will just leave it as is, ugly, or maybe later I might decide to make it a little more presentable LOL
Alex
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I have built some bows for a friend of mine that found a pocket within city limits that is still legal to hunt, he doesn't want to be seen carring in a bow so i make him bows that look like walking sticks. So far no one has noticed. Steve
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Got a picture of it? Would love to see what it looks like.
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Tiller didn't you start this, so where's your entry ??? >:D
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Other projects are keeping me occupied. I will be making one sometime in the future. Just no time! (Sigh!) :'(
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Here ya go! ;D
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/paleoalex/composite%20bows/DSC_0166-1.jpg)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/paleoalex/composite%20bows/DSC_0163-1.jpg)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/paleoalex/composite%20bows/DSC_0165-1.jpg)
I'm not sure what cultural design it resemble, maybe Scythian?
Alex
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Alex, whats it made out of?
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Oh, this is the same bow I was talking about above.
Bamboo with sinew backing. It has mulberry (sapwood) siyahs and ash wood handle.
I shot it today just for fun with my lightest arrows (250 grains) and got 130 yards. I guess its not bad considering its only 10# :P
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Could you take a few detailed shots of the siyahs splices and handle? Thats got quite the braced profile! I'd like to try something like that with another slat of bamboo for the backing.
Cheers,
Grant
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Sorry Alex, but for the challenge it has to be backed with anything but sinew. The whole project is to see how small a bow we can make without using sinew. Man, that is one sweet looking bow though. Looks like you spent a lot of time on it to boot. I like it!
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i would like to try this. i have never made this style the worst that could happen is i learn something new. besides i've already committed to it. to get the right size piece i cut down a good osage stave to 40". which brings me to a question. how wide for osage? as of right now the demensions are 1/2"x 1 1/4"x 40" and knocks at 1/2" which by the way i can'nt hardly get to bend which is why i ask about width
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Thats a sweet bow alex! I really like that. :)
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Nice bow. ;D
I've almost finished mine, it's been sitting idle in my room for a while, though.
It's about 38"ntn, and around 50lb@18". I'll try to get pictures later.
Sean
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>:(dang computer illiterate! 4th times a charm. anyway, bow is 40" overall and 38 1/2" ntn. the charecter in the bow has been tough,any advise would helpfull. i will try some pictures know. (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow001-2.jpg) (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow004-1.jpg) (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow005-1.jpg) (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow003-2.jpg)
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Nice! Looks like a cross between a holm and and indian flatbow. Can we see a front profile? I would say get it bending in the handle a bit more. Just a tad and then your done! Wow, nice one! I think we have one of the first to meet the challenge!
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thank you d.tiller i will try. i have worked on the tiller sinse the picture was taken,will try more pictures tomorow. i this will do for know (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow003.jpg) (http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow008.jpg) first picture is when i started second is when i first got it strung 50# @ about 10"
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Hi Guys, I've been following this rather entertaining thread, but wasn't going to enter until it occrred to me that the korean bow I'm working on fits the criteria! The bow isn't finished yet, but with the sinew applied the bow has developed a seious reflex the curls this 50 inch bow into a small enough size to fit in most back packs. Ron
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Still working on posting photos Ron
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Ron
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(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc270/May-Pumphrey/koreanbowonbackpack.jpg) Ron
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Thats awesome. hope it turns out as nice as it looks like its going to :o
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Nice Korean bow M-P :)
The ears seem light color, what have you used for them?
You have good even shape on reflex, it looks very promising.
Alex
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but sinew is not allowed in the challenge. We have to see what we can come up with without using sinew. I do like the bow though its a beauty!!!
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Nice! Looks like a cross between a holm and and indian flatbow. Can we see a front profile? I would say get it bending in the handle a bit more. Just a tad and then your done! Wow, nice one! I think we have one of the first to meet the challenge!
David, I think you have a little problem. You wanted a bow that would pull at least 18". That one pulls 50# but only 10". That eliminates the challenge if you only go 10" because you haven't gone far enough to stress the wood or to create problems with string angle.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You sure thats not an 18" draw? Only 10"? Hmmmm! Challenge is still unbroken then. You sure? Looks like 18" to me. (Get your minds out of the gutters guys. I'm talking about the bow!!!!) ;D
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Well Dang! I must have missed the page where you decided to outlaw sinew. It's all fun anyway. This bow came to me as a "kit" . A Korean bowyer suffered a stroke a couple of years ago and can no longer work. His inventory of parts is / was being sold to help bring in continued income. The pieces were all rough shaped and "only" needed some assembly and sinew. So, I don't know the type of wood used for the siyahs, though I think it is traditionally a type of mulberry.
Ron
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50# @ about 10"
;D ;D ;D
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M-P,
You are quite lucky and good man to get this kit!
Lucky in that I wanted it ( :D) and good in that you support master Geuk-hwan Park, I hope he gets better.
Well, if its by him, the ear most likely be mulberry or Robinia. Thanks for info! :)
Hope it turns out awesome mate!
Alex
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I hate to hear when someone has to sell off his business to pay for medical care. That must be one of the most heart wrenching things in life. I just hope he can get well and continue building bows in the future. From what I have seen they look amazing.
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ok guys i know i suck at posting pictures with words around them,sorry. my final tiller was 50#@18". i could have got a longer draw like justin sead but i like the string angles.(and i'm chicken)
(http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow016.jpg)
(http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow015-1.jpg)
(http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd326/evldwrf/bow010-1.jpg)
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Sure Glad it's Hedge....cause it sure bends a lot in the Handle..........Scary!!!!
;)
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It looks like it works so one down! Now I would have gotten it bending a bit more a bit further out but thats just me. Holmies should bend more toward the handle. Though, now that I think about it, it looks like the handle on this holmie was removed to make it shorter and the bend through the handle should actually look like that. Nice design! Hows it shoot?
Though I think you could get some more bend further out in the limb! ;)
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I've got mine about done! I'll try to post it tomorrow.
Sean
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Was thinking about bamboo on belly and back of bow and then tempering it. Would this work? What design would be best when doing this?
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Here is my backpack bow.
It's Hickory, 1.5" wide, 38" ntn. It pulls about 50lb@18", but I can pull it to 20", where it's 60lb( :o). I painted a pattern on the back, in line with the west coast indians.
Sean
[attachment deleted by admin]
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cool 8)
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Sean; very cool, i'm really starting to get into these shorty's. oh i forgot your tiller looks great.
chuck
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Sean, great job on that one. I would say that looks like its neat bow and at that weight don't think there is any problem makin meat with it either. Danny
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Way to go! Looks like it made the challenge. Any backing material on it? If not that is one efficient bow!
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Great work so far!!!
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Thanks!
David, no backing, I like selfbows. :)
Sean
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Sean has my vote. That is a sweet little bow partner. Justin
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I'm getten ideas! How come everyone reaches for sinew when they make short bows? I think we are proving that it's not necessary!
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1/2 primitive, what the brace height on that and have you tested it for distance or through the chrono? That looks sweet!
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ive finally decided to jump in on this, the shortys posted so far look great and seem like a very different bow to have around. im starting off with a 36" bit of (i think shellbark) hickory that has two decent sized knots and some prop twist. i also have a 37"er from the same tree that is a bit straighter but less clean. hopefully one of them will make it to at least an 18" draw. in case they dont the theory/strategy i wanted to play with was a straightforward bendy handle flatbow with tillering at the ends that are just short of whip tillering-the plan is to coax more working limb from less total limb to get either the 36 or 37" staves out to 20" draws. SOM
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I'm getten ideas! How come everyone reaches for sinew when they make short bows? I think we are proving that it's not necessary!
Thousands of years of evolution of bows on numerous continents have proven that sinew is the most viable option for short bows. Why make a square wheel when a round one works so well. ;) Justin
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I would think that whatever the final result is that is should be duplicateable and durable so thats its attainable for others to do as well. I tend to agree with Justin on the sinew issue. I don't feel confident enough in my skills to make one as short as these yet, however if I did, I would sure want to make sure I could use it regularly as needed. That to me is what the sinew would ensure. Durability. As far as reinventing the wheel, well there is wisdom in that ole adage.Just my two cents worth.
Danny
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The NW Indians made short bows without sinew and they worked just fine. Very much as the one above!
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28", no sinew
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/wolfsirebella/boneandhide.jpg)
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I rest my case!!! ;)
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I rest my case!!! ;)
??? thousands with sinew and a few without. I don't think I would rest to much. Especially in the NW, you might grow moss. ;D ;)
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Too late! Moss grows on things that move out here.
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how about a takedown long bow. that should fit your requirements. ???!! they make them with only two bezel fasteners that you an allen wrench which is easily carried
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The "rules" on page three say no takedowns. I'm considering making a bow to try and fit the requirements.
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Alright who thread ressurected n put this up as a sticky?
I don't personally agree with the rules of no sinew or under 40"...I'm a backpacker and take a bow with me...its a 50.5" unbacked bow, but it is the perfect length to double as a walking stick,and I can still reach my comfortable full draw(26" with bendy handle) without having to adapt to a not as accurate floating short draw...plus the bow is already in hand and I have no reason to conceal it ;)
But that being said I like a challenge and forgot about thus thread and always wanted to make one by his rules....id imagine I could get an unbacked 40" to pull 22-23" smoothly before stacking.
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Chris we all know you can do this !!
I think I could get a hickory 40" that far so that king wood of yours should go at least to 26 maybe 28 !
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Think I've got three that could meat this criteria
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How bout this? Bighorn n sinew, 29" 50# @ 17". Leave it strung for days and the reflex comes back it a couple hours.
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Wow. That bighorn bow is fantastic! I want one.
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thats incredible, i want one to
chuck
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Thanks Patrick and Evldwarf. Give one of these a try when you got some time. Horn and sinew does do fantastic things. Dont think it fits this challenge but will kill a deer or elk from close and will fit in a daypack.
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this bow i dont think fits, just have to show it off. the arrows are about 19 or 20 inches long. you can barely see a black band around the shaft, thats the draw length ive had the bow to. about 13" its around 35 or so pounds there. it wasnt made by me though. its osage core with horn belly and sinew backing. a mini horn bow. its amazing how much bend it can take. its a bugger to shoot though. lol
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Nice to see this still up and about.
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You can build a very simple take down by over lapping the limbs of a bow at the handle.
I have built two of these now and both are great shooters. My first used two bolts to hold the limbs together
and the second used just 1/4" oak dowels and strong thread. Both bows are 72" long and brake down to a max of 31 inches. I use a long draw,31", and a thumb release. Both bows are modified molly"s with tied on levers that are reflexed 2 1/2 inches. With shorter draw lengths you could make a shorter version. It only takes a few minutes to assemble these bows. Here's a link to my first take down molly over on Paleoplanet
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/54313/The-Alaskan-take-down-hunting-bow
And another link to the second take down molly
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/54709/Alaskan-Molly-build-68-lbs-31-finished-pics
Both of these bows are high performance take downs 70 lbs and 60 lbs You could take moose or grizz with.
They will fit in my pack and using bolts in handles will assemble in 30 seconds if you leave the levers on.
cheers fiddler49
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I just literally skimmed this thread, paying no attention to anything.
I usually make very, very short bows from juniper and eastern red ceders. I am thinking.. a 2 limb takedown. very simple. or maybe a folding bow. wierd idea, i know.
my best bow ever- ERC 50 inch takedown made from 28 inch billets. draws only 45 pounds. recurved. 28 inch draw length. bamboo back.
-Squirrel
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How bout this? Bighorn n sinew, 29" 50# @ 17". Leave it strung for days and the reflex comes back it a couple hours.
This bow is very inspiring. I really want one now :)
Any guess as to the fps you're getting off of it?
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I saw a guy on Youtube with a strong slingshot he set up for arrows. Extra strong bands. He atttached a small ball grip on arrow nock to allow holding with pinch grip. I think he took the nock off and carved the ball grip. A small nail could be inset the same way, with head providing a grip. I forget how he guided the arrow but I used to have a catalog that sold a wire arrow insert for some wood slingshots. Would be easy to make something similar.
This would be easy to carry, easy to pull out & use. Light weight, inexpensive. May not count as primitive, using rubber tubing.
I can't find the video at the moment but there is a lot on there. A Scandanavian also had a wood sling bow about 2 feet long with a rubber tube "string". Bow didn't bend, rubber pulled. That may fit in a back pack.
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P. S.
Youtube/watch?v+UdsWJ04HVkQ. This is the video I had seen before.
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this is my entry. probably the smallest bow entered. 2#@5" :P
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o799/Jez_Walsh/minibow_zpscc94a5ef.jpg:original)
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wow squirrel, I didn't realize they changed this to the "pocket bow challenge" :laugh:
but great job, it's the shortest bow I've ever seen
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Yes and the limbs are snaky ill get some pics up later. Got to go of on a 14 mile hike now :laugh: SS