Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 07:42:49 am

Title: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 07:42:49 am
I've always wanted to make a really snakey osage bow, so here's how I'm gonna try...

After splitting up a very large and very old log that had been standing dead for lord knows how long, I had the two billets shown below. My plan is to splice them together after chasing a ring and roughing them out. Hopefully the pics show the  symmetry that would result from positioning the sister billets as shown.

Think it'll work?

I'll post pics as I go if anyone's interested.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: BowEd on November 18, 2018, 08:20:53 am
I've got faith in ya Jeff.Nicely matched pair!!!
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bjrogg on November 18, 2018, 08:29:26 am
That should Otta work. (-P
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: DC on November 18, 2018, 09:12:55 am
Yup, keep posting :)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 09:42:54 am
Thanks for the encouragement fellas.  :)

I got a little busy this morning.  O:) Chasing the ring I wanted was kinda tricky cause the were a few concave sections. I used a goose-neck scraper for the more shallow areas and a gouge for the deeper ones. Came out pretty good  :)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 09:43:37 am
a few more...
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 09:48:15 am
The only other thing I did was draw out the front profile on each billet. I drew straight lines for the first 5" (which will be the spliced handle section) on each billet, and followed the natural curves of the wood for the rest of the limbs. I'm gonna leave them parallel for the first 14" of working limb then taper to an inch at the end (eventually I'll reduce the width of the tips).
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: DC on November 18, 2018, 10:00:28 am
I bent an old file and sharpened the tip like this to use for my hollow limb bow. It would work for dips and hollows following a ring.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bjrogg on November 18, 2018, 10:05:18 am
Looking better already Jeff. I got a set of those scrapers from Andy-n-Sheryl "Feathers-Wood" at Marshall this year. Don't know how I ever got along without them.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: Del the cat on November 18, 2018, 10:22:25 am
Nice pair of billets, that should be real fun to make and will draw some admiring looks when she's done :)
Del
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bradsmith2010 on November 18, 2018, 12:48:11 pm
wow thats looking great (=)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bentstick54 on November 18, 2018, 06:16:38 pm
Looking good. Keep up the good work and definitely keep us posted.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: Danzn Bar on November 18, 2018, 06:25:14 pm
Looking forward to seeing it finished up.
DBar
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 06:30:00 pm
Don, I bet that tool does the trick just fine. I do like my set of scrapers though. How many did yours come with BJ?

I hope I get that far Del, for some reason whenever I post these type of threads something ends up going wrong. Fingers crossed.  :BB

Thanks Brad, bentstick and Dbar.  :)

I just finished up the last of today's work. Roughed out the thickness and marked and cut my "go to" splice, a 2" tapered finger joint. I've done a ton of these and never had one fail. The fit gets a whole lot better after a boil and clamp.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 06:31:28 pm
here's the boil and clamp...

No light coming through afterward.  )P(
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bjrogg on November 18, 2018, 06:38:04 pm
Just keeps getting better Jeff. I think mine came with four if I remember correctly. I like the
One you were using and a curved rectangular one to. That's gonna be a sweet snaky bow.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: osage outlaw on November 18, 2018, 06:46:32 pm
Its looking like a bow.  Good job
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 18, 2018, 06:50:43 pm
Thank you guys. I think mine came with 3 BJ.

OO, if it turns out even half as cool as your coral skinned bow I'll be happy.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: leonwood on November 19, 2018, 04:59:43 am
Oh my this is gonna be good!  (-P
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: Bayou Ben on November 19, 2018, 07:42:02 am
Very cool build Jeff.  I guess your patience is pretty high after those r/d bows, so why not tackle a project like this....Keep it up  (-P
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: gifford on November 19, 2018, 08:22:59 am
Super looking splice job. Never tried that many cuts before, Kudos for setting the a high bar.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: DC on November 19, 2018, 08:46:27 am
Your splice interests me. In the splice layout picture you have four fingers. How wide are they? How many will be left when you reduce the handle to final dimensions? I like the idea of the short splice. Its always bothered me to have the splice end right where the handle necks down for the arrow pass. How much fiddling did you do between sawing the fingers and boiling and clamping?
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: Hawkdancer on November 19, 2018, 09:27:48 am
Looks very intriguing!  And difficult!  Hope you pull it off :BB.  I got a long way to go try even think about trying that - I'm watching (-P!
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: BowEd on November 19, 2018, 10:24:29 am
Nice build-a-long Jeff.It's always a time consuming deal chasing rings with those concave backs. (-P (-P
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bradsmith2010 on November 19, 2018, 12:14:29 pm
I like your splice too,, I have never seen that,,  (SH)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: RandyN on November 19, 2018, 12:34:18 pm
This is a very cool project. I am looking forward to the finished snaky bow. Great idea to boil the splice before glue. You came out with a much tighter fitting splice than I have been able to get.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: ty_in_ND on November 19, 2018, 03:23:53 pm
Definitely gonna keep an eye on this one.  It'll be neat to see the journey!  Especially when it comes to how you tackle the tillering.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 19, 2018, 07:40:20 pm
Don, the total width of the spliced section is 1.25" wide. That means each finger is 5/16" at its widest point. The only fiddling I do in between the initial cutting and the boil/clamp is just enough to get the fingers 90-95% interlocked. I do this very carefully by taking off minuscule amounts of wood, just barley touching the insides of the fingers against the running bandsaw blade. The great thing about this method is that almost none of the spliced area is removed when shaping the handle. Just a bit of the outside fingers get thinned towards the belly side. I've never had one fail.  :OK

I'm really glad you guys are getting some entertainment out of the build. I epoxied the splice early this evening, so everything's all clamped up until tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: simson on November 20, 2018, 10:06:21 am
Good work, Jeff.
Will follow with interest.
The staves/billets are exceptional.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 20, 2018, 06:37:01 pm
Epoxy in the splice is cured, so I unclamped and glued a piece of paduk underneath.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 20, 2018, 06:39:46 pm
Then I grabbed the heat gun and began the alignment/ side-profile adjustment process, which may take a little while.
That's all for now folks!
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on November 21, 2018, 12:43:42 am
Wow this is wonderful, thanks very much for sharing. Simply amazing
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: gfugal on November 21, 2018, 10:23:59 am
The nice thing about your build alongs is you work so fast that you don't leave us hanging.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 21, 2018, 06:11:40 pm
The nice thing about your build alongs is you work so fast that you don't leave us hanging.

Lol.  ;D

Well here I go again  :D

Got the alignment/ side profile set with the heat gun...
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 21, 2018, 06:14:30 pm
Then I floor tillered to a low brace. As I started to bend her a little I noticed the outers (one in particular) needed some work.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bradsmith2010 on November 21, 2018, 06:15:49 pm
lookin good..when can we shoot it,, (-P
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 21, 2018, 06:16:30 pm
I continued tillering and got her to a pretty nice bend, pulling my target 55# @ about 23"
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 21, 2018, 06:19:19 pm
Not done posting yet Brad!  ;D
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 21, 2018, 06:20:24 pm
I had to see it bending in the hand so I took a few pics of that...
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 21, 2018, 06:28:41 pm
Okay, so everything's going good, but now I've gotta tell ya'll about an issue I knew I'd have to address sooner or later. There's a pretty significant weathering check that starts about 10" from the tip and runs almost all the way.  :(

But have no fear!  :D I've got a solution.  8)

Cutting across it is unavoidable, so I do so, fill with epoxy (and a little CA where the check is too thin to get any epoxy in there) and clamp her up.

Once it's cured I'll wrap with sinew where the check runs off the limb (might be overkill but better safe then sorry).

And that's it for now. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  :G :G :G -C- -C- -C- )P( )P( )P(
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: rps3 on November 22, 2018, 06:30:58 am
Following along. Looking good, hope that check doesnt give you any problems.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bjrogg on November 22, 2018, 08:34:16 am
Coming along nicely Jeff. Enjoying the build. Happy Thanksgiving.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 22, 2018, 07:17:30 pm
Thanks Bj. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.  :)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 23, 2018, 06:55:21 am
That is looking great. Did you cut the splice with a saber saw? Jawge
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 23, 2018, 06:25:31 pm
Thanks Jawge. I actually used the bandsaw. Saber saw is a great idea though. Maybe I'll try that next time.  :OK

Well I got around to cleaning up that checked area and wrapping with sinew. I gave it 3 wraps going back to where the check starts. 
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 23, 2018, 06:27:24 pm
No worries about that check after that.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bjrogg on November 23, 2018, 06:32:24 pm
That'll hold that snake together Jeff. It'll shrink down and tighten up good when it dries to.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 23, 2018, 06:33:38 pm
Yes sir BJ! That's why I like using sinew for wraps like this.  :)

Finished up today's work with some elk antler overlays. I cut the wood and antler with a hacksaw and used a rasp and some 40 grit sandpaper glued to a flat little block to make the joint. Then I apply CA and use some inner tube to wrap the overlays on.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 23, 2018, 06:34:31 pm
last pics for today...
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: RandyN on November 24, 2018, 11:41:44 am
Nice to see your bow bending. I like how you fixed the side check. Good information that I can use on my future projects.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 24, 2018, 06:56:36 pm
Randy, I'm glad you got some useful info from the build.  :) Anything I can give back to this amazing community is my pleasure.

Well, she's pretty much finished up. Just gonna take some time now to apply 8 or so coats of true oil and figure out how I want to do the handle. Thank you all for taking the time to check out the build. I'll be sure to post plenty of pics when she's all dressed up and ready for the dance.  :OK
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: M2A on November 24, 2018, 11:23:34 pm
Great build along Upstate. Thanks for sharing. Looks real good so far, looking forward seeing it all finished up.
Mike
   
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: hoosierf on November 25, 2018, 04:24:39 am
Great rings on that stave. This a very well done build along. Thanks as we all know it takes a lot of time to create these threads.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 25, 2018, 06:46:52 am
I was just wondering because I thought I saw a saber saw in one of your photos.  Jawge
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 25, 2018, 10:57:16 am
Man, I'm so glad you guys got something out of it.  :)

Jawge, I use the saber saw for cutting out the curves on the fades.  :OK
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: BowEd on November 25, 2018, 11:10:02 am
Good build-a-long Jeff.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bradsmith2010 on November 25, 2018, 11:24:16 am
when can we shoot it,, (SH)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 25, 2018, 12:41:18 pm
Oh I see. Jawge
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: DC on November 25, 2018, 12:43:46 pm
I've tried my first finger joint. I had epoxied a filler strip on one limb so I was afraid to boil it. As a result the fit wasn't good but I can't break it :D
I later tried boiling a couple of pieces of wood that had been epoxied together. I boiled it for about 10 minutes and it held strong so next one I will boil and clamp
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 25, 2018, 07:16:33 pm
Thanks Ed. This is the first one I've done where the bow made it all the way to completion!  :D

Brad, if you can make it up to the Rochester, NY area I'll send it home with ya! We got plenty of room...  (-S

Good deal DC. I think you'll find it's a great way to splice. Plenty of surface area in half the length!  8)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: gifford on November 26, 2018, 07:26:35 am
Thoroughly enjoyable bow build on what could be called a very challenging stave. Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: ohma2 on November 26, 2018, 09:18:58 am
Great post upstate,shame you had to patch it but i bet you got one you will enjoy.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: sieddy on November 26, 2018, 09:25:55 am
That looks like a fantastic snakey bow and the build along is great too!  :)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: DC on November 26, 2018, 09:26:59 am
There must be a point where making the fingers shorter stops working. If I had a fine enough saw(and steady enough hands) I could make ten fingers 1" long or 20 fingers 1/2" long. Still more glue surface but I don't know if I'd trust it. Couldn't find anything on Google.
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: DC on November 26, 2018, 10:21:01 am
You just have to put the right question to Google. I found this
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fplrp382.pdf
Haven't finished reading it yet. Link should be OK, mods can delete if necessary :D
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on November 26, 2018, 07:39:33 pm
Thanks again fellas.  )P(

DC, I believe finger joints are typically done with special router bits. Doing them that way, I'm sure you'd get a flawless splice, but I looked through some catalogues and didn't see any bits that produce anything longer than 1". Besides, I don't have a router, so there's that.   :D Great info in that article though, thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: Will B on November 27, 2018, 08:36:52 am
Great looking bow and a great build along!  Thanks for taking the time to photo and explain each step.  Very infomative!
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: bradsmith2010 on November 27, 2018, 10:11:09 am
I hope i can visit sometime so I can shoot that bow,, :)
DC,, I think you right there has to be a  point where they get to short,, so many variables,, poundage of the bow, ,if the handle is glued on etc,, I always err on the side of too much splice,, I had one blow up that I gave as a gift,, and have been paranoid ever since,, :)
Title: Re: Making a Snake
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 16, 2018, 01:10:35 pm
I got around to taking some finished pics this afternoon. It was raining, but I didn't know when else I'd get the chance so I went for it.  (R

I'm very happy with the way everything turned out. There's just a teency weency bit of string follow (which you can see in the last pic that I took immediately after FD) and it shoots very quick, quiet and smooth.

65" ttt
54# @ 27"
paduk on the handle
antler on the tips
waxed cord wrapped around the handle w/ a bit of leather on the arrow pass

Let me know what you think.  :D
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 16, 2018, 01:12:29 pm
more...
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 16, 2018, 01:12:58 pm
last 2...
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: bradsmith2010 on December 16, 2018, 01:46:42 pm
very nice, ,congrats,, and enjoy
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: bjrogg on December 16, 2018, 04:54:20 pm
I think that snake looks like it could slither away on that wet slippery rock. Nice bow Jeff and really nice build along.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: Will B on December 17, 2018, 05:03:56 am
Great looking character bow!
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: BowEd on December 17, 2018, 05:11:49 am
Sweet looking snake bow Jeff.You did very good on that one.Thanks for showing the build.
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 17, 2018, 05:28:40 am
Thanks for coming along with me for this one guys. I'm just happy it came full circle and didn't end up in the firewood pile.  (=)  :D
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 17, 2018, 06:29:54 am
update, you did such a great job on that! Thanks for sharing. Jawge
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: Bayou Ben on December 17, 2018, 07:22:11 am
That came out great!   Thanks for doing the build Jeff.  I learned a few things for sure. 
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: Pat B on December 17, 2018, 07:44:38 am
Beautiful tiller on this nice snaky bow. Well done!   :OK
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: ohma2 on December 17, 2018, 08:39:01 am
Very nice ,and with no backing and paint you get to watch the wood age and turn dark,i allways liked that.
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: DC on December 17, 2018, 08:41:09 am
I like that one Jeff :D I'm a sucker for snakey bows.
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: leonwood on December 17, 2018, 11:31:43 am
That is a sweet looking bow! A snakey osage stave is in my christmas list for sure! (Not going to happen I am afraid but someday it will!)
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 17, 2018, 11:45:32 am
Nice job, Jeff. Good job tillering.
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: Hans H on December 17, 2018, 12:04:25 pm
Hey Jeff, Very well done! I like it
Hans
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: backtowood B2W on December 17, 2018, 12:34:44 pm
very nice bow
that came out very nice,
Thanks for taking us along the build
b2tw
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 17, 2018, 04:11:40 pm
Thank you fellas. Build alongs have really helped me learn so much here on PA. And I'm a believer in that old saying, "you've got to give it away to keep it."

The holidays have got me thinking about how grateful I am for this site and all of you.  :)
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: bjrogg on December 17, 2018, 05:41:51 pm
When you leave this world, for a better place someday
The only thing you get to keep, is what you gave away

Bjrogg

Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: Pappy on December 18, 2018, 05:19:45 am
Nice work, love them snake bows.
 Pappy
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: simk on December 18, 2018, 05:38:44 am
thanx for that journey with very beautiful outcome. helped to cure my fear of splicing a bit - might will try it also with the next d/r attempt. cheers
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: rps3 on December 18, 2018, 04:26:03 pm
And here I was worried about that crack...looking good!
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 19, 2018, 03:57:13 pm
Thanks again everyone.  )P(
Title: Re: Making a Snake (finished pics on pg 5)
Post by: Aaron H on December 20, 2018, 06:15:42 am
Great looking bow with character.  Nice tiller too.