Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on January 21, 2019, 08:41:56 pm
-
What kind of conversation would you have with your stave as you fashioned it into a bow? What would you like to ask it?
-
I don't know, this is a family site ;D ;D ;D
-
"Seen any good bucks around?"
-
+2! >:D >:D
Hawkdancer
-
Don,t break,don,t set, pull smooth, and shoot fast, and last a long time.
-
You have 2 options , you can tune into a bow that will last a life time or you can cook brats that only last for a short time, your choice ,I will try and coach you along but ultimately it is up to you. ;) I do have a lot of conversations with a piece of wood as I am working with it, and it will talk back but in sign language. ;) :)
Pappy
-
Tell me where it hurts when I do this.
-
I thought it did. I must be hearing things again. I'm sure I can hear it. It doesn't always listen real well though.
Bjrogg
-
“I’m gonna glue this piece of dead animal on you now, nothin to worry about.”
-
I will have to give that some thought -C-
-
If wood could talk, I doubt it could get a word in edgewise in some of your shops. ::)
-
I rather imagine sticks and so talking to each other. Who’s getting an upgrade from their destiny as firewood or fungus food, or just being lumber. Who’s the master’s favourite? Sister staves discussing their potential. That sort of stuff ;D
-
We often hear the phrase, " I let the wood tell me what kind of bow it wants to be". I would imagine someone new might be wondering how exactly it is the wood is talking to you.
First thing I always ask a bow is how much moisture it has. It never answers me so I have to go through some steps to make sure the moisture is about right.
2nd thing I ask is how elastic are you? How wide do you need to be to make a bow? Again it never answers me so I have to take steps to assure I am wide enough.
3rd thing I usually like to ask is " Am I working you too hard? Where does it hurt?" By this time the bow is bending and starting to talk, but we need to listen closely as she starts off whispering and if we go too far she will be screaming at us.
-
Well put Steve that is the way we have to listen to the wood! I try to always invite God into my builds. Those seem to turn out better bows. Just saying. Yes I sometimes talk to myself also. :-\
Arvin
-
That's kinda where I was going Steve. But you explained it better.
Bjrogg
-
Jim Davis, very true in my shop ;) :) :) :) Well said Steve, all so true and Arvin that for sure never hurts. ;)
Pappy
-
We often hear the phrase, " I let the wood tell me what kind of bow it wants to be". I would imagine someone new might be wondering how exactly it is the wood is talking to you.
First thing I always ask a bow is how much moisture it has. It never answers me so I have to go through some steps to make sure the moisture is about right.
2nd thing I ask is how elastic are you? How wide do you need to be to make a bow? Again it never answers me so I have to take steps to assure I am wide enough.
3rd thing I usually like to ask is " Am I working you too hard? Where does it hurt?" By this time the bow is bending and starting to talk, but we need to listen closely as she starts off whispering and if we go too far she will be screaming at us.
This is an awesome way to think of bowmaking Steve. Let me think about it...
-
Don't do nothin to me until you think it out real well.
-
Arvin, no problem in talking to yourself, as long as you don't answer!
I think the wood, whether a bow, a carving, or any other end product has a "feel" let's you know what your limits may be. We screw up the results by trying to bpush the limits too far.
It also helps to leave a nip of the poteen for the leprechauns - some of them are bow makers! >:D (lol) :BB!
Hawkdancer
-
All my bows over 35# are talking to me ,
Well, no theyr laughing and saying you know you cant shoot me anymore.
-
Well put Steve that is the way we have to listen to the wood! I try to always invite God into my builds. Those seem to turn out better bows. Just saying. Yes I sometimes talk to myself also. :-\
Arvin
I love it. I often contemplare God, and existence while working on a bow. Rarely is my mind on task, just going through the motions to open my mind to other things.
-
Sleek,
And God said, Boy, you Just screwed up a perfectly good stave I gave you! Pay attention to the wood! :BB :BB >:D! Also watch out for lightning bolts!! (lol). See you at MoJam, I hope!
Hawkdancer
-
live wood tells me: "cut me I'll be an awesome bow", "cut me I'll be a true arrow", "cut me I'll be a great carved spoon" and so on
At home every bit of wood keep speaking and whispering: "tiller time", "get the saw", "I need sandpaper...", "sharpen the knife"
I also have some rocks that are usually quite big mouth
Then there are bows and arrows asking aloud: "shooting time", "time to go out", " i need a small fix! just one.."
Weird thing they always mute when my wife comes home :NN
-
Figuratively, the wood does talk to me.
Just as an example...
Let's say I have a 60" hickory stave.
I'll try to make a bend in the handle bow rather than a bow with an 8" handle section.
Essentially, I design the bow around the stave rather than force the design onto the stave.
Jawge
-
I've had a few that spoke to me. Either loudly,or softly, they have said "Tic"... :o
Which, in stave language, means "OOPS"... ::)
-
George, I agree with you 100%. By designing the bow for the wood you have leads to a more successful attempt. Making the wood fit the bow design you want doesn't always work and doesn't make you a better bowyer. A well tillered bow that comes in under weight is still a well tillered bow and our ultimate goal is to build well tillered bows. A beautiful bow that is poorly tillered is a pretty bent stick. (--)
-
Steve,,Great question. I talk to my staves, future bows all the time. For me, the trick is to listen to their response.
-
I do talk to them. "You know you want to be a bow don't you? You want to launch some arrows. You're gonna love it."
And then there's "You *&#$5@B!!!"
:BB (--)
-
I just thought of something. Some people say they can bounce the end of a stave on concrete and tell if it is dry or not by the ring. I can't do that but I don't doubt there may be something to it. If someone had one of those electric tuners around maybe they could monitor the tone of the wood as it dries out and see how much it changes.
-
The shavings will tell you a story too to tell if dry or wet. Jawge
-
This is a cool topic. I wished I had something profound to say but believe it or not I'm at a loss for words.
In response to the sound of the wood when you bounce it on concrete: I don't bounce it but I do tap on it on the bare back with my thumb nail or with a coin. I can definitely tell if it has a sharp resonance or is dull.
-
Keeping it in the parameter of different woods. If you build a bass guitar with an Alder body you get a smooth round sound. If you build the same kind of bass with an Ash body you get a more percussive, brilliant sound.A luthier is picky about the wood he chooses to make instruments acoustic or electronic just like bow makers are picky about their choice of woods.They also prefer dry, and well seasoned woods like most of us do.They even use hide glue on acoustic instruments so that when they make a repair they can separate the wood with heat with out doing damage to the instrument.Yep, I have made a half dozen bass guitars in my life time.Still have them ,and still play them.
-
When I talk about wood talking to me I am primarily talking about set, weight loss and hysteresis. I would like to say that no set tillering if done right will produce a bow that has taken no set or shown any weight loss due to crushed wood cells. The truth is that is very rare. Where the communication comes in is trying to distinguish between un avoidable set and set due to error or lack of skill on out part. Either through design or execution. It is very difficult to tell the difference but the wood will talk to us here. If your bow has lost 3" of induced reflex maybe only 1" of that is really set and the other 2" might just be that your reflex didn't hold. You can easily tell the difference by measuring the speed of the bow or an easier way is to unbrace the bow and see how much reflex returns. I have found a bow that stays the same after unbracing will almost always outshoot a bow with a similar profile that wants to return to it's original unbraced self. So what the bow is telling me is that I shouldn't try to ask too much from it.
-
I agree Steve . Man some guys can understand what you said but can't explain it like you often do. First sign of set will try to tell you. That's all I got Mr. Bowyer. That's an even set thru out the limb not just one area. Listening soon enough is the reward. But also not all Osage is the same. Early to late rings ratio can often tell the tale. Dense or not. The drop on the concrete tells me it's dense more than dry or maybe both. I will try my next green stave and monitor.
-
Update:
Apparently the wood I have really likes to say “tic” and “kaboom”
-
Oh, ok. Regarding design... I've noted that, or was told some years ago by my mentor that wood that does not respond to belly wood removal after repeated tries and is getting too thin, is too wide.
Then, I began to narrow the stave until it responds by exercising it and checking tiller.
Ultimately, if too thin it will take set, hinge or beak. Jawge