Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Selfbowman on January 28, 2019, 08:23:45 am
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I had a stave with about 3-1/2 in natural reflex in it. Good stave . After straightening and shaping I have 4-1/4" reflex. My question is has anyone had success keeping that much reflex in a66" stave or bow? If so what weight was the bow in the end.
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You probably won't retain the 4 1/2" of reflex but you could end up with 2" if you take it slow and easy. And, you could easily end up with a 60# bow if that's where you want to be.
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Ive tried to keep that kind of reflex on self bows, but cant. I usually end up with about 50-60% in the end. I've even made bows 2-4" longer than they need to be and still that excess reflex pulls out. Natural reflex seems to hold better than heat induced.
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I would put some D Flex in the handle.
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I would put some D Flex in the handle.
+1
Del
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Set and no set to me are the hardest things to understand and interpret in bow making. Early string tension seems to be the bottom line. Often bows with a lof of reflex will end up with thin limbs. The thin limbs allow the back of the bow to pull it back into shape even though the belly may have been crushed. I built a radical recurve a few years ago with 12" reflex. It held almost all of it in spite of being badly crushed. The big tip off is how much they come back after restringing. A bow that creeps back into its original shape is a bow that has picked up hysteresis if they are solid and stay pretty much the same you are usually in good shape.
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just leave it a bit wide, do your best and the natural reflex will be nice, what ever you end up with,, I agree with Pearl,, the natural reflex seems to stay pretty good,, I think you will end up around 2 inches, depending on your design
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Ok 65" ntn 8-1/2 " handle fade to fade. 2" at fades . Pyramid. Probably around a 1-1/4 at mid limbs is what they end up. As usual I can't load pics because of size. Shooting for 50 #at 28. But if it would hold almost all reflex at 35# . I could make a ladies flight bow that might do the job.
Arvin
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More weight I remove the more reflex as well. I been working on a HHB that has 5.5" of natural. Grew with a tree laying on it for 6yrs. Been going very very slow with this bow. Has good crown on both limbs and it's at 70lbs @16" and still has 5.25" of reflex remaining. I have made the mistake before to shoot for a mid 40's in HHB or Hedge with good natural or spliced backset reflex and lost 50-75%.
My instinct tells me the more wood left on limbs, more reflex you save.
Shawn~
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Ok floor tillered and long string to brace height. 34# at brace. So math guys how does that help the bow after it comes to rest? Does this mean the bow would actually be a 74#er at 28". For the smart guys I am showing my ignorance? I can guess the strain on the limbs is increased substantially with reflex. That's why it's so hard to keep the reflex in the limbs. So the happy medium is also different with every wood. I keep scratching my head I won't have any hair left. Arvin
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I did a force draw with long string hanging 3" from back of bow strung. At this 3" the bow and arrow weighed1.4# at 6"-21.84#,8"-23.86#,10"-25.78. This is close to a six inch brace ht. 12"-28.30,14"-30.88,16"-34.50#,18"37.30#. Ok at this point the bow has taken 1/4 in set. Did not relax back to original 4". I am going to do something I have never tried. I am going to trace the back of the bow on to a piece of paper on my bench an monitor exactly where the bow takes set and adjust accordingly. Any body done any thing similar to this before? I am pretty good at hanging the bow string on my scale and pulling down and checking tiller as I go that way. Also just getting it even at brace. This has been my go to tillering method to the present. Don't know if I am helping myself or not. Just trying something new. Arvin
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so if you pulled it to 28 on the long string it would be about 55# ???
if its even,, it wont hurt to string it,, so you really know where you are at,,
leave it wide for 35# if you want more wood,, dont pull it past 35,, and you should get a nice profile with little set,,
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I trace all my bows on paper. Someone on here recommended it, sorry I can't remember who. It will show you where the set is happening but it also shows the slight differences in the limbs if you swap it end for end. That will show you why your tiller looks off and that maybe you shouldn't scrape that spot so much :D :D
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Arvin, if you were to brace that bow it would still read about 37#@18"
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Well D.C. We seldom come up with anything new. But this is new to me. It will be interesting to see how it works out for me. Back at it tomorrow. I like natural light and plenty when I tiller. Arvin
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This is a good thread...we are both having fun Arvin. Thanks! I do wish you had pictures because I'm definitely a visual learner. :BB
I like outlining the limbs with a dry erase marker since my tree has a 4x8 sheet of white bathroom paneling as a background. It sure makes it easier for me to see movement in the inner third...as well as mid limb and tips.
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Steve I braced the bow and pulled it to 18" it was 35#. About 1/2" out of tiller on one end. Going to bring it back to even and continue. It took 5/8 set. This morning back to4". I did not work the bow much yet but will once I get it even again. My next question is at what point of force draw can you determine what weight the bow wood will stand. Is it the point that it starts taking set? Meaning in this case the set started at 18" at about 35#. Does this mean if we do a good tiller from here out the bow will take very little set at 35@28? Arvin
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Got it tillered real close. 3-3-1/2 inch reflex at 48@26. Went to 3" when I did force draw to 26". Then relaxed back to 3-1/2. It's not shot in yet but I think Brad is right about 2-2-1/2 final set. Wish I could post pics. Sent some to Steve by email though. Arvin
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Got pics to load on the wall.
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Pic for Arvin
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Looking very good Arvin. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Steve the size thing gets me every time on here.
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Looks great
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Well guys not sure but I think reflex is reflex induced or natural. My 50 # record bow shot same arrows 211 yds . The 4"deflex bow shot199-204yds could be no spotter. This 4"reflex bow is not broke in yet so it could get better. The wood has to learn to bend in my opinion to a degree. The record bow has 1-3/4 " reflex that it has held. 67" bow. 4"reflex bow now has3-1/8 in reflex but I think it will go down from there a bit once broke in. 47degrees when I shot. Don't know if the cold air affected the shots or not. Also no spotter. Arvin
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THe new bow could be a tad overbuilt,, its not all about the reflex,, the bow with less reflex might be working the limbs a bit harder,, etc etc,, sounds like a great bow ,,
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Brad I like one inch of limb for every inch of draw. Even with eight one half inch handle I was crowding it at 27". So yes maybe overbuilt a tad. Maybe a bit wider but that's all the stave had. Hey they are not all record breakers. Good bow!!! Yes!
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This 4"reflex bow is not broke in yet so it could get better. The wood has to learn to bend in my opinion to a degree. …... 4"reflex bow now has3-1/8 in reflex but I think it will go down from there a bit once broke in. Arvin
Sounds contradictory.
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Maybe so Pat . But my experience with some bows get smoother after being shot more . Sometimes even less shock . Seems to a point the limbs bend more evenly. I could be wrong . I have been wrong before. It's a feel thing for me. Kinda like feeling the evenness on the limbs during tiller. Ops there is a bump there need to take a little more off. Remember I'm no math guy so I do tiller by sight and feel mostly. Don't use a tillering board behind the bow and scale. Just the scale and checking at brace after floor tiller. Adjust from there. I said this is a new way for me with the monitoring set on paper on the bench. I don't explain myself good sometimes but this is the best I can do for now. :BB
Arvin
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Nice bow Arvin. I saw the pictures on the wall. Looks like a winner to me.
Bjrogg
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47degrees when I shot. Don't know if the cold air affected the shots or not. Also no spotter. Arvin
You should pick up a couple of yards or more on a warmer day. Warmer air is less dense, so there is less air resistance on the arrow when shooting for distance.
Alan
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Thanks Alan . I thought so but sounds like not much in distance. I got sorry flight arrow cast. Does affect flight arrows more than broadhead arrows? Arvin
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Thanks Alan . I thought so but sounds like not much in distance. I got sorry flight arrow cast. Does affect flight arrows more than broadhead arrows? Arvin
What elevation did you shoot at? What elevation will the bow Ben shot at?
For example, I live close to sea level. 204 yards at zero feet elevation on a 47 deg F would be the equivalent of a little over 213 yards at 4000 feet on an 80 degree F day. This assumes the arrow behaves like a normal ballistic-type projectile, which is not always true, but it gives some idea.
Alan
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We need to talk! Arvin