Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: upstatenybowyer on February 09, 2019, 06:00:26 pm

Title: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 09, 2019, 06:00:26 pm
Does this look right for an ELB tiller? Please feel free to be as honest as possible!  :OK

Thanks  :D
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: Badger on February 09, 2019, 06:13:50 pm
  I think it looks good! I would like to see just a tad more bend in the mid limbs but your bow still looks good as you have it.
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: Sticks on February 09, 2019, 06:19:34 pm
I would sure be pleased with it,how does it shoot looks like you may have heat treated it by the picture?
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: wizardgoat on February 09, 2019, 08:23:17 pm
Mid limb to tips could come around more.
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 10, 2019, 06:53:03 am
Great. thanks you guys.  :OK

Haven't shot it a whole lot yet Sticks. It's currently 70# at 27" which is my absolute limit for weight. I wanted to see if I could make a heavy ELB. You're right, it's heat-treated hickory. 
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: Pat B on February 10, 2019, 09:55:57 am
Is that a standard ELB cross section, narrow and deep? If so you did very well with that hickory.  I also think the mid to outer limbs could bend a tad more.
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: DC on February 10, 2019, 10:06:36 am
My two bits worth. Take a bit off the yellow and a bit more off the red.

PS and now I'm not sure about the yellow, do the red first ;D ;D
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: Badger on February 10, 2019, 10:18:02 am
That is exactly how I see it DC.
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: DC on February 10, 2019, 10:32:59 am
Wheww!
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: Del the cat on February 10, 2019, 11:11:14 am
Yup, pretty good, but what they all said  :)
Don't over do it, just a bit of fiddlin' and fettlin'
Del
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 10, 2019, 11:37:30 am
what they said,, that being said,, thats what makes those bows so cool,, there is a bit of room for interpretation on the tiller,,and the bow will tolerate some varience,, a good example would be if the bow is a bit long you could whip tiller a bit,, etc etc,,
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 10, 2019, 01:58:22 pm
Alright, thanks again.  :D

I believe it is Pat. I got the starting dimensions from Del a while back.  :OK

Love the red and yellow for reference Don. Much appreciated.

This is great. Why just settle for your own eye when you can get a bunch?  (-S
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: DC on February 10, 2019, 02:02:33 pm
The extra eyes really help. Sometimes you can stare at these things and you just seem to brain dead ;D
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 11, 2019, 04:48:55 pm
Is this a bit better?
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: Del the cat on February 12, 2019, 12:57:34 am
Here's my take on it:-
Del
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 12, 2019, 05:19:52 am
I wish I could do that with my computer. Thanks Del
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: Del the cat on February 12, 2019, 05:22:57 am
I wish I could do that with my computer. Thanks Del
It's only done in MS Paint.
Del
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: barebo on February 12, 2019, 09:21:19 am
I don't see how you could tweak that tiller to any degree to improve it. Looks to be darned near perfect to my old eyes! Are you planning to "dress" it up with a grip, etc?
Title: Re: ELB tiller
Post by: DC on February 12, 2019, 09:42:10 am
I was thinking that the "red" portion still needed more scrapes and then I looked at Dels pic. I was right :D :D
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 13, 2019, 02:27:55 pm
Thanks to all who lent their eye to this one.
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: DC on February 14, 2019, 09:06:05 am
Yeah, that's it ;D
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 14, 2019, 09:33:29 am
Whew
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: willie on February 18, 2019, 10:07:41 pm
upstate

what is the consensus about where to locate the best part of the bend with these kind of bows?

I have heard about leaving the center and tips a bit stiffer, but should the biggest bend be in the inner ,mid or outer?
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 19, 2019, 04:33:11 pm
Willie, from what I gather some of that varies depending on who you ask. It seems to me that the "inner-to-outer" mids should have the biggest bend with the center and last 4 or so inches a bit stiffer.
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: willie on February 19, 2019, 05:16:34 pm
yes I cant help but notice that the bendy handle bow is so universal, that you might have to ask British warbow makers, Native American bowyers, even Amazon tribesmen. But if you could, most of them might probably be busy making arrows.

Modern reproduction makers seem to be more focused on the bow itself, but are sometimes too polite to provide assertive opinions or observations. Your "feel free to be as honest as possible" request did not bring as many comments as I thought might be warranted.
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: Del the cat on February 20, 2019, 01:19:21 am
upstate

what is the consensus about where to locate the best part of the bend with these kind of bows?

I have heard about leaving the center and tips a bit stiffer, but should the biggest bend be in the inner ,mid or outer?
There is no overall consensus, it depends on the type of ELB.
My personal preference is an arc of a circle tiller, if it it's made of spliced billets it will likely be stiffer at the grip. Some people favour the more Victorian tiller in which the bend increases slightly as you move outwards (elliptical tiller). What I personally don't like is when most of the bend is in the inner 1/3 of the bow, pretty much like a straight stick would be, as the outers are too heavy.
The other day I was asked to have a look at a warbow that was bought on the interweb... it was horrid, the thickest part wasn't in the centre it was about 1/3 of the way down one limb and where the tips enter the horn nocks were 16mm diameter where 12.5 is pretty much standard on the Mary rose bows.
It was a bit sluggish, 2" of set, 10# under weight and ugly..... other than that it was a bargain ;)
I videoed it, you might find this amusing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoJdKEh6u1o&t=187s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoJdKEh6u1o&t=187s)
Del
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: willie on February 20, 2019, 05:35:09 pm
Del

when you (and/or maybe most WB guys) speak of "arc of a circle tiller" do you mean each limb is a circular segment, ie an upper circle and a lower circle?

or is the whole bow (including through the handle) all one circular segment?
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: Del the cat on February 21, 2019, 05:19:51 am
Del

when you (and/or maybe most WB guys) speak of "arc of a circle tiller" do you mean each limb is a circular segment, ie an upper circle and a lower circle?

or is the whole bow (including through the handle) all one circular segment?
I mean the entire bow at full draw forms an arc of a circle.
to be fair, I've looked back over my blog and most are slightly elliptical, but a single ellipse covering both limbs
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/05/nocks-and-tweaks.html (https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/05/nocks-and-tweaks.html)

Bows with a stiff grip, I draw two separate ellipses.
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2019/02/building-flight-bow-elb.html (https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2019/02/building-flight-bow-elb.html)
Del
Title: Re: ELB tiller (tiller complete)
Post by: willie on February 21, 2019, 04:21:04 pm
thanks Del.

as I think you may have said on another thread, one can usually find an ellipse to fit any bow, but lately I have been limiting my computer ellipses to ones that have a major axis length the same as the bow length and noting the discrepencies. in a subjective sort of way.