Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Deerhunter21 on March 17, 2019, 05:28:27 pm
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This is a board bow that I made from maple and out of all my board bows this was the best. Then it snapped like the others. Do you think it's because the boards cant handle the weight? Any ideas why their snapping? Anyway im a beginner, I can only expect bows to snap.
P.S. am I posting too much?
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Bad grain structure. Looks like it was milled straight through some twists or undulations.
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Ahh that makes sense as it brok along a grain
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You have to be very picky about grain runoff when selecting boards for bows. I found that I am not picky enough and much prefer staves.
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Not posting to much. I agree bad grain run off.
Bjrogg
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Not posting to much. I agree bad grain run off.
Bjrogg
Says the guy with 6200 posts in 3 years >:D
but seriously, I don't think you can post too much here. we are always happy to hear from people.
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No, you can't post too much. ;D
When checking boards for good grain you also have to look along the sides of the board. That's probably the most important area of the bow because of the way the stress is applied to the bow.
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Maybe try a stave,,,,if it does not snap...it will be cost effective,,..and more fun
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Not posting to much. I agree bad grain run off.
Bjrogg
Says the guy with 6200 posts in 3 years >:D
but seriously, I don't think you can post too much here. we are always happy to hear from people.
Lol. Yes I could be a blabber mouth.
Bjrogg
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Brad, I don't have access to lots of staves, I don't own land and my friend didn't have alot of bow wood there and none that would be good for a stave. I am stuck with boards. :'(
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Boards with bad grain work, if they are backed with bamboo, hickory, pecan, or other good woods. Also, hickory axe/sledge handles make awesome bows as well. May look into that also
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Ok thanks sleek, but where can I get one that long?
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You buy 2 ax handles and splice them at the handle.
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Splicing is good to learn
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Can't see much by looking at the photo.
Most of my bows are maple, laminate. Yep........ :P broke lots you have to know what to look for at the lumber yard. Make sure you look at the grain on the edge of the board and does not veer all over the place. Its hard to find 1/4 sawn but good rift is great. Even flat sawn. Maple makes a great bow, I have a takedown I built it's taken 1/4" of set and has been shot over 3000 times. Its smooth as silk and shoots like the dickens.
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With the quarter seen do I chase a ring like a flat sawn and a regular stave?
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Bad grain there. More on my site. Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com
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With flat grain you could chase a ring but with quarter sawn you can't just because of the direction the grain runs. Read George's site!
He explains what to look for in a board that is suitable for a bow.
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With the quarter seen do I chase a ring like a flat sawn and a regular stave?
I was just talking about boards not staves. You dont chase rings on a board. I back almost all my bows just because its added insurance. You be the judge when picking out a board and keep trying. It took me half the time to tiller a Self bow as it does a laminate bow.
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I would never take in mind to make board bow without backing. I understand if You have no access to materials but there is no point either to make potentially broken bows. You shoult use backing. At least some fabric, rawhide or some fibers.
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The trouble with that thinking is that thin strips of boards are considered backings in their own right.
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Yes, but the grain of the backings does not go thru tehe limbs. Backing work just under the tension. And it depends of type of the wood too. You probably wouldnt make backing from pine :). I think the thin backing, cuted from the same board could even work if to glue it onto the back with grain in opposite direction.
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I like to back my board bows with rawhide,, I know its probably not needed most the time,, but I just like it,,
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Yes, but the grain of the backings does not go thru tehe limbs. Backing work just under the tension. And it depends of type of the wood too. You probably wouldnt make backing from pine :). I think the thin backing, cuted from the same board could even work if to glue it onto the back with grain in opposite direction.
The grain of the board shouldn't go through either.
The point is that a board should be selected just like a good backing.
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My point is that if to use a good backing, for example bamboo backing, you dont have to look at grain of the board at all :). In this case You can use any board. Its much easier to find a backing than a good board.
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deer hunter
a stave is not that hard to come by. there are lots of places to cut something 3-4 inches in diameter
if you are shopping for boards at the big box store, you will look long and hard to find something that is not cheap junk
picking through boards at a dedicated hardwood supplier is maybe a bit more useful, but there is a guy in tecumseh that has a garage full of stuff that most of us have to pay good shipping to buy from his site on ebay
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I got two staves of Osage orange. One is like 1 year old the other 3 years old. Shoot me your address and I’ll see what shipping is like. If it’s decent I will give it to you.
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Hickory axe/sledge handles can also be ripped into multiple backing strips, just as an idea.
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My point is that if to use a good backing, for example bamboo backing, you dont have to look at grain of the board at all :). In this case You can use any board. Its much easier to find a backing than a good board.
Wrong "O" find the best board you can, another big problem with boards is you can easily end up with Prop twist or one limb twists, :o this has happened to me a few times even if the grain seems adequate. And a good backing does not cure limb twist.
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My point is that if to use a good backing, for example bamboo backing, you dont have to look at grain of the board at all :). In this case You can use any board. Its much easier to find a backing than a good board.
Well, id be interested in seeing a bow built like this.
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My point is that if to use a good backing, for example bamboo backing, you dont have to look at grain of the board at all :). In this case You can use any board. Its much easier to find a backing than a good board.
Not good advice.
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Dont take all this as us giving you a hard time, or picking on you. We have all spent many years learning, and doing our best to get rid of incorrect information. We are very protective of our craft, and as a result will do our best to point out something when its wrong and correct it. I hope you understand. Perhaps you wpuld do well to learn a bit more before taking on the role of teacher.
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My point is that if to use a good backing, for example bamboo backing, you dont have to look at grain of the board at all :). In this case You can use any board. Its much easier to find a backing than a good board.
Terrible advise. That is why most pieces of wood are not ok for bow making and they are for trim and furniture
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I dont feel like you guys are picking at me! the more you nag the happier I am! ;)
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Lol. Yes I could be a blabber mouth.
Bjrogg
Could?
BUT, ya usually have sumpin to say that's worth the read. ;D
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Not good advice.
Why? Because You say so :)? Ok guys, i must fight back against to Yor attack :D. Of course, a good advise would be to get a good stave or board from a good bow wood and to make a good bow :). But like Deerhunter21 sayd, he has no access to good bow material. Regardless of that, he has a big wish to make bows. My advise is a chance.
sleek...- here is my bow im useing for target shooting. Its bamboo backed junniper, very knoty and the stave looked like a corkscrew. 150cm NTN 17kg draw and 158 f/s. No side twist in limbs. And its unbreakable.
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Srry about my look and background . Its early morning in here, i made those shots for this post :D.
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You are using an exception to make a rule. Using Juniper and Bamboo to illustrate that any crummy HD board is fine belly material with a backing is still bad advice.
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maitus~ that's a very nice bow... 60" 38# and getting lots of draw length... are there nodes on the bamboo backing? I think what everyone meant was that some pieces of wood will not hold up under the bamboo. I have even seen osage with bad swirls break with bamboo backing.
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You are using an exception to make a rule. Using Juniper and Bamboo to illustrate that any crummy HD board is fine belly material with a backing is still bad advice.
Ok, i am ready to prove it and to make one, if You are redy to make a bet on it :D! Condition is that the board must be cuted from considerable type of bow wood. I have one very very ugly elm board with grain into every direction, i decided to make firewood from it. I can make classical english longbow from this board with bamboo backing and it will be faster than my junniper/bamboo bow. Or elm is also exception? :D
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Bob Barnes Thats right. You cant make thus a short bow from every type of wood, but You can make a longer bow.
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Srry, there is no nodes.
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Thats an awesome looking bow. Great tiller, clearly you can make a good bow.
Im still going to say, a board has limits before it can be made into a bow. Backing will let you get away with a lot, but backings are not bullet proof. Even if they were, the bellies can fail in compression from bad grain.
Id like to challenge you to find the worst board you can, and bamboo back it. See what you can make, maybe you will surprise us.
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yes matius! it would be worth experimenting with a terrible board and bamboo as if it works you would be helping alot of beginners, and if it doesn't work no harm done! :BB
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Ok sleek! I think about it :D... I agree that there are limits. Some boards have knots in same wide as the board is and they break when You try to lift them :D. I hope nobody is so stupid to start to make a bow form that kind of board :D. Again. Deerhunter21-s bow woult have survived if he woult use bamboo backing.
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yes matius! it would be worth experimenting with a terrible board and bamboo as if it works you would be helping alot of beginners, and if it doesn't work no harm done! :BB
It wouldnt help beginners. Bamboo backed bow is not art, its a craftsman work. You just cut out dimensions and a little tillering. Art is to make bow out from stave :).
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I agree that everyone wants to help new people succeed.but i also think that you have to do some reading and learning on your own, cant afford books ? Lybrary ,jawges site, research past posts.it does no good to keep buying bad boards and worthless staves and then ask what you did wrong more than ounce.take the time to learn a littlle on your own.i dont think anyone likes to give advice thast not listened to.
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My opinion, save and get a good stave. Trade for it, or buy one. The better the material you start with the greater the likelyhood you end up with a working, hunting weight bow. Osage, hickory, elm, hackberry, or one of the other proven bow woods. Starting with quality wood can allow you to spring forward a long ways. You can avoid some of the common issues that many newbies get caught up in. Too short, narrow, rotten, grain run off, bad knots, poor specimen in general, etc etc. You will never make a silk purse from a sows ear.
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thanks guys SLIMBOB I will take you advice and cut some staves, do you guys think that a burlap backing will work?
P.S. Malfort I will try to PM you soon, mabey a week at most but I have some other stuff I have to do and my mailing address is tricky. Thanks!
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You don't need burlap, or any other backing other than air. Good piece of wood, proper design, good technique = 5000 shots. The idea of backing a bow to keep it together means either you started with a flaw in the back and hoped a backing would keep it together.... Don't do that, regardless of what you might read. Or, you started out OK but ended up with a flaw in the back and hoped a backing would keep it together. See "don't do that" above. Yes a backing may salvage a bow that would break without it, but it may not, and you covered up a problem that you may not even be aware of, which means you didn't sharpen those tiller skills. Those skills are in my opinion the essence of this craft. Get them finely honed and you can back whatever you want with almost any material you want. You just wont have to simply to keep one together.
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ok slimbob. next bow I might back so I can get some reflex without heat and thats all i will do. there was a splinter that lifted up so I wrapped 70# catfishing string and put wood glue on it so that should work to keep it down.
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Pope and Young backed their bows,..I think it is a valid procedure,,.not always needed,,..but effective in the right situation,,..I like both backed,,.and unpacked,,.and hunt with both,..
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Not arguing against the benefits of a good backing. Simply advocating for the benefits of a good back, first.
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I back every selfbow with rawhide to protect the outer growth ring from mechanical damages.
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Keep practicing. One day you wont have to.