Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Rākau on April 10, 2019, 01:31:20 am
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Kia ora guys, I am after some recommendations.
Pictured below is a fresh cut, soon to be sealed domestic plum branch (90% certain it is plum).
thick end is about 2.5" diameter thin end is a little over 2".
total length of stave is 67" As you can see she is a bit bent, but the bend is somewhat even, however the last 7" of thick end has a bit more of a kick to it.
my question is this. How would you experienced guys go about this stave?
Cheers,
Zach
(ps I have also change my handle due to NZnuka sounding to much like bazooka or a nuke or some other silly thing, when it was actually a reference to two common wood species over here, Kanuka and Manuka. Anyways, rākau is a Maori word for a stick or a tree, but is also used to refer to weapons, such as the taiaha. For example the Maori martial art that uses wooden weapons is called mau rākau.)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7877/46661817335_58fdbf478a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2e6m1BZ)20190410_174550 (https://flic.kr/p/2e6m1BZ) by Zachary Press (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157468780@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7830/46853467134_389d17c068_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eohgqS)20190410_174557 (https://flic.kr/p/2eohgqS) by Zachary Press (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157468780@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7864/40611222533_bee3c9f65b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24SF8zX)20190410_174608 (https://flic.kr/p/24SF8zX) by Zachary Press (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157468780@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7875/46853440314_e334c8b627_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eoh8ss)20190410_174612 (https://flic.kr/p/2eoh8ss) by Zachary Press (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157468780@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7810/32634849607_891df06816_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RHQ8NP)20190410_174723 (https://flic.kr/p/RHQ8NP) by Zachary Press (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157468780@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7909/32634839487_69ae8b7a54_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RHQ5Nk)20190410_174731 (https://flic.kr/p/RHQ5Nk) by Zachary Press (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157468780@N02/), on Flickr
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I should add that I have read about every plum related post on here and it sure does sound like a mighty fine wood, as soon as I know what profile to go with I will reduce it to rough shape, cover the cut side in glue, wrap it in cling film and just generally follow the advice of rossfactor from this thread: (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,44857.msg606290.html#msg606290)
Also, my draw length is 26" and I have a wee bendy handle bush bow in mind. I am just in need of advice as to how to get the most from this stave.
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The colour of the wood doesn't much look like plum to me, but it is small diameter, so it might be since the heartwood wouldn't be apparent in something that size yet. I always found it weird in NZ that the Maori never developed bows, but to make up for it, developed trench warfare and actually changed the landscape to give them the advantage in a siege. They made some pretty crazy weaponry too. When I was there I didn't know any bow making yet, but looking back on it, I would have loved to try making a Manuka bow. There is also so much invasive scotchbroom growing there now that that would certainly be a good option. I worked on an oldtimers heritage plum orchard that had fallen into neglect for some time just north or Auckland. I pruned back over a hundred old plum trees. Looking back on it, I feel like punching myself in the nuts I missed out on so much wood that just got turned into firewood. I loved NZ and regretted having to leave. Amazing place. You can try the nephrite jade you've got there for arrowheads as well. We have the same kind of jade all over here in Taiwan and I normally go collect it after a typhoon to turn into arrow heads. Can't knap it, so you need to use a wet wheel, but it makes a durable arrow head.
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Thanks Limbit, the leaves look like plum, but the wood colour is why I am only 90% sure it is plum.
Funnily enough they made bows as kids toys, but just never developed them further into adult weapons/tools. Perhaps it was due to their being no need to use bows for hunting as all the large land animals were flightless birds that were unafraid of people and the other birds could be efficiently trapped and speared using very long (12ft) bird spears. their warfare was very advanced by the time Europeans got here, but there is a thought that the fighting only started once the natural resources started to get more scarce (last 200 yrs before European arrival) which was not enough time to develop bows as weapons when they hadn't previously been developed for hunting.
I have recently found an excellent source of obsidian, so I can leave the pounamu (which is generally protected/on Maori land) where it lies.
you are right there is a heap of broom around. finding a strait bit is the only problem. sad to hear about the pruning job mate!!!
you are right though, we are damn lucky to live in this country, she's a beaut!
Zach
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I recently finished a Plum longbow and I remember when I cut it, the ends had the same colour as yours.
I thought the seasoned wood would be that colour but it's not, it's much whiter a bit like Maple!
Its just the sap giving that honey colour.
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If you wrap it in plastic make sure you check it every day for condensation. I would make a reflexed bow out of that. The picture of the butt end(I think) looks like it may have a lot of twist but I'm not there. If you leave the handle area thick there is a real good chance it will split there but I've just filled the splits with epoxy/sawdust or something. Cut the limbs to the pith if you have the thickness. If you don't cut all the way to the pith it will split to there anyway.
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Thanks for your replies DC and meanewood.
spot on meanewood, it was white when cut, then went honey coloured within 10 minutes.
Roger that DC I will check it for condensation. Also, you are right regarding the twist on the thick end. Should I cut the last 7" off and make a 60" bendy handle? that would get rid of the extra reflex on that end too.
I have a question about how much of a crown plum can handle. If I use the reflex as you suggest DC then I will be using the narrowest/highest crown section of the log as the back, will that be ok without backing?
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If the bottom is twisted I would be suspicious of the whole thing. Make it as long as you can. I've never worried about crown. You have to play the hand you were dealt and it's reflexed, deflexed or bent sideways. Make your choice. Hint, bent sideways doesn't work ;D
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haha oath to that DC. 60" reflex, bendy. . .waaay above my head, but lets go!
be prepared for a few post begging for tiller advice in the next couple months
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Let it dry longer than that. Plum wants slow drying apparently. Mines been drying a year and I'm making the first from this batch now. I made two others and that wood dried for two years I think.
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If It was me, I would go for a deflexed bow, Just use the natural shape to your advantage.
There is nothing wrong with that , just tiller as normal and even up the bend.
Remember, it's not set or 'string follow'! Don't fight nature but follow it's lead.
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It might be next year then DC, I will rough it out and weigh it to monitor moisture levels but I won't stress about getting it dry in a hurry.
meanewood, haha I already have enough bows with 3 inches of deflex ::), I don't need to start one off like that!
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Here's some examples of the kind of cracking you may get it the handle.
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Look carefully at the first one and you can see how it cracks down to the pith. The last one is a bow I did last year and the crack filled with sawdust/epoxy.
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All of I have cut, which is a small sample size, cracked horribly.
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Oh yeah, that is some gnarly cracks in there DC! the sawdust and epoxy looks like it did a good job though?
Thanks for posting thise photo's! I will leave bark on and reduce past the pith then seal up with wood glue on any and all exposed wood, as well as cling wrap and a cool dark place for a few weeks, checking to make sure there isn't any moisture build up. maybe even clamp it down to reduce warping?
Slimbob, fingers crossed this one stays together!!!
Zach
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Yeah, you shouldn't freak out over cracks so long at they don't run off the edge of the bow. Just get saw dust and cyanoacrylic superglue and fill it. Epoxy is fine too. Even if it runs off the edge of the bow, you can do the same thing and then bind the area with some thread as you tiller it toward the end. Just do this during last 2/3 of the way on the tiller tree. If it makes it that far without breaking, you'll need to bind it to be sure it goes the whole way. When you are done tillering, remove the thread and place a more permanent bind of whatever type you want over the exact same area. Don't make it any thicker or longer than the original bind though or it'll throw your tiller off a bit. The aboriginals here where I live do it all the time this way since the wood they use checks uncontrollably during seasoning.
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Yep he’s right. I’m not sure about the wrap thing though I have a feel in it will still break. I have a bow made from Purple-Leaf Plum (the prince of bow woods FYI) and it’s 56” nock—>nock, 1-1/4” wide narrowing down to 7/16” tips, at the nock. Pulls #65@28” and it has a crack on the back that runs 2/3rds the length of the entire back. At its widest it’s about 1/8”-3/16”
I’ve got more than 1000 shots through it and it’s still shoring to this day. The key part is that the crack doesn’t venture of the edge of the limbs. I never even filled it in. Wanted to see what would happen and it’s been 5 years now.
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I wonder if that packing tape with the filaments in it would work as a temp wrap to use during tillering. It would be a lot easier than thread to take off and put on during trips to the tree.
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I wonder if that packing tape with the filaments in it would work as a temp wrap to use during tillering. It would be a lot easier than thread to take off and put on during trips to the tree.
The clear tape with the white stripes through it? I believe those filaments are strips of fiber glass
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Yeah, that's the stuff. It would just be momentary use of fiberglass ;D ;D
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Anything durable is fine, just not to thick. In reality, if you are just binding where the split leaves the edge and a bit above and below it, it doesn't seem to matter if you use thicker material. I've only noticed tillering issues when the bind was long and thick. In the past I would also make a mirror bind on the opposite limb to balance the tiller as I was taught by the local aboriginal archers, but now I feel like it is more aesthetic than anything. Looks nice and is surprisingly durable. If it is a real concern, horizontal threads can be laid down over the run off soaked in whatever glue you want. When it dries, sand it smooth then bind over the top of it. Sinew can be used this way too.
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Awesome kōrero (words/talk) guys, I really appreciate all the advice that is coming in.
Bryce: Its funny, plum is hardly talked about and you really have to hunt around to find photo's and ideas of bows made from it, yet every time you do find something everyone raves about it! I wonder why it isn't mentioned more often?
that sounds like a gnarly bow though bro, with some crazy stats, would love to see a photo! hopefully this thing works out half as good.
Limbit: I will keep the wrapping idea in mind if I get some bad cracks, hopefully it behaves itself when drying though!
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Bryce: Its funny, plum is hardly talked about and you really have to hunt around to find photo's and ideas of bows made from it, yet every time you do find something everyone raves about it! I wonder why it isn't mentioned more often?
that sounds like a gnarly bow though bro, with some crazy stats, would love to see a photo! hopefully this thing works out half as good.
It’s difficult to dry without fatal checking. Plum and a lot of other really nice fruit bow woods it dont like to cure like traditional woods. Plus most aren’t native growing out on public land for cutting. Most are in yards and private property. So if someone does have a nice fruit stave like apricot, peach or plum it’s usually Harvested in the bowyers yard or family member. Then ends up cracking so much while drying that it ends up being scrap.
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Yep, what Bryce said. You can get billets if you ask an orchard for their cuttings, but be prepared to look through a lot of wood for something at all usable. Crabapple, mulberry and persimmon are really the major fruit woods you'd find naturally and people use those all the time.