Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on May 05, 2019, 05:29:58 pm
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All else being equal would a whip tillered bow be slower than a "properly" tillered bow? May I ask why? :)
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I disagree... lmao
I think whip tillered bows would shoot a heavy arrow faster than an otherwise tillered bow. It's my impression that whip tillered bows are more efficient than otherwise.
I reserve the right to be wrong.
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I think string angle on a whip tillered bow would cause it to be slower pound for pound. Although I too reserve the right to reconsider upon further review.
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Outter limb weakness, not allowing the whole limb to perform under it's full potential...
Don
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The "standard" theory suggests a whip tillered bow loses cast due to string angle.
However - it likely has lighter outer limbs which cause such a tiller shape. Perhaps this makes up for the string angle? (I too reserve the right to be wrong)
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I wonder if it matters what sort of limb action is better, faster, more effective, etc depending on 'what' it's throwing... a light arrow or a heavy one? You can adequately throw darts with your wrist and forearm. Try that with a shotput.
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whip tilled bows may not shoot as fast to full potential of the wood but they are sweet shooting , virtually no hand shock and pretty accurate... IMO... gut
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If they are made intentionally make them a few inches longer to cut down on string angle and as gut pile said they can be sweet shooting. Jawge
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Interesting when I get caught up a bit I might try one. Sounds like a tiller nightmare for me! But I remember being talked into building a pyramid bow. I think that this will require a longer bow which means longer arrow. Which means more mass. All from less mass of limb to transfer energy. Hummm! But then scientists Arvin has been wrong a bit! Arvin
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I think it could shoot fast (-S
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What brought up this question was me thinking about RD bows. Depending on how much reflex in the outer limbs you start out with I was thinking that your bow could be "whip tillered" without looking like it. Matt's suggestion of string angle got me thinking that in the case of RD's the outer limb can be weak but the string angle will be fine because of all the reflex you started with. So in that case where the outer limb is weak but the string angle is good is it still 'whipped".
I agree with Del in that it's just terminology. If you start out with a Molle and just keep scraping the tips at what point does it become whipped?(hypothetical question ;D ;D)
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these things all day long, DC ;D
As it happens I'm currently working on my first R/D bow. Beautiful piece of ash spliced into a minor deflex. I'm going to reflex the outer third right up to the very tips. Then I'm going to keep the final five inches static by laying down a strip of purpleheart that will serve as a nock tip that becomes a stiffener for the static. Purpleheart handle. I think it'll look great against the white of the ash.
Only reason I'm telling you this is because I'm now considering adding more reflex and then whip tillering it a bit right up to the beginning of the static reflex.
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About the only advice I can give is the more reflex you try to put in the more it will pull out. I think there may be a point where it just won't take any more.
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Outter limb weakness, not allowing the whole limb to perform under it's full potential...
Don
This makes the most sense to me
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Imagine this topic has come up hundreds of times, always thought the last 4" of the tips should be on the stiff side for decent performance.
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Imagine this topic has come up hundreds of times, always thought the last 4" of the tips should be on the stiff side for decent performance.
This ^^^
Science also tells me that tips would need to be so thin they would be totally unstable. In fact I'd even suggest they would be too thin and narrow to hold the string without snapping.
Still an interesting concept though. The total lack of inertia means those tips would move like lightning if someone got it to work.
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Imagine this topic has come up hundreds of times, always thought the last 4" of the tips should be on the stiff side for decent performance.
This ^^^
Science also tells me that tips would need to be so thin they would be totally unstable. In fact I'd even suggest they would be too thin and narrow to hold the string without snapping.
Still an interesting concept though. The total lack of inertia means those tips would move like lightning if someone got it to work.
I got up this morning and realized how futile it is at times to post anything on the contrary, intelligent or otherwise.
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Did not quote you at all.
The last 4" are automatically stiff, because of the lack of leverage. Is this always a given when building bows. Lost me there.
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I think it could shoot fast,,if the bow is designed to be that way,, :NN
I think like some one stated,, some of the deflexed bows might be a bit whip tillered,, it just doesnt show so much,,,
but if I had to make one,, I think if the bow is holding reflex,, it will probably shoot well,, even with the tips bending,,I cant really think of a reason it would not,,it might stack a bit too,,
I would probably sinew back mine to hold the reflex, and then thin it to whip tiller and see what she did,,
the string angle would not be great,, but I think it would shoot,, Im not so worried about it and probably wont make one,, but that would be the best way to find out,, shooting it through the evil chronograph,, would let you know how its doing compared to other bow designs,,
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I was thinking that your bow could be "whip tillered" without looking like it
yeah, but without the R/D, you would not have the higher string tension at brace unless you braced unusually high
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My favorites are always stiff tips. Levers, mollys, etc. For me at least I seem to get more spine tolerance and more speed pound for pound. I've made some whip ended bows and cant say I have been thrilled with any of them.
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slimbob,, I think you got a point,, if it was a thrilling design,, we would probably see more of them,, and not have to guess so much,, (SH)
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I remember reading in one of the TBB’s, Bows of The World I think, about whip ended bows somewhere, Africa maybe. They were made that way intentionally due to wood property limitations. Or I dreamed this whole thing and no culture used them. Could be either one.
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Did not quote you at all.
The last 4" are automatically stiff, because of the lack of leverage. Is this always a given when building bows. Lost me there.
Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain properly.
I'm agreeing with you that the final 4" are stiff due to lack of leverage, and therefore getting decent performance.
I was just thinking out loud that a theoretical bow with bending tips would be interesting. They would have to be impossibly thin to actually bend because of leverage, as you say.
But if thin enough to bend, they would weigh almost nothing, thereby increasing dry fire speed. It would be interesting to see if that lack of weight made up for the loss of cast due to string angle.
No disagreements from me - just quoting your post as a springboard for my theory ;D
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Some people think every bow should be tillered to a perfect arc, no matter the unstrung profile. When there is reflex in the outer limb and the whole limb is tillered to a perfect arc, then the outer limb is working more than the rest. The more substantial the reflex, or the more it's isolated there, and if tillered this way, yes, the reflex can pull out with use... i.e. the limb takes set there because it was made too weak in search of that arc their mind's eye wants to see. I've seen guys do this bow after bow after bow and never figure out why their bows all take more set in the outer limbs.