Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: SLIMBOB on May 26, 2019, 11:04:08 am
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I cut this stave about 6 1/2 years ago out of North Texas. It's Texas Mulberry, a variety of Red Mulberry. The ring I am on is about 1/2 inch thick Taking the sap wood off was the toughest I have ever encountered on any wood. I hope that is a good sign. Gonna finish this one while my sinew dries on the static recurve. Fairly clean stave. No knots. Not even any pin knots. I will straighten the dog leg out with dry heat. The stave is 67 inches long and about 3 inches wide. Working plan....66 inch long, 1 3/4 inch at the fade, parallel till mid limb then taper to the tips. Stiff handle section 8 inches. I'm gonna heat in some deflex in the handle and do another R/D. Sweep the tips forward. Any thoughts on Mulberry? I've read up on it a bunch. Some gentleman that went by the handle GMC on here was a big fan. Pappy likes it a bunch as do others. I'm looking forward to a straight up build for a change as the last 8 or 10 have been challenging staves. Any thoughts or advice?
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Mulberry is excellent bow wood. Your dimensions sound good. You could only go out parallel 6" to 8" and you'd still be good.
I have left some sapwood on mulberry with good results but all heartwood is always your best bet.
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Thanks Pat. I thought about leaving some sap wood and decided against it. As tough as that sap wood was to draw knife off...I may leave some on the next one. Lots of folks say it’s their favorite wood. You can tell it’s physically liter than Osage by a good bit. I have it drawn out and about to take the sander to it.
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Mulberry can compete with osage because it is so much lighter. About 10% overbuilt over what an osage bow would be will give you a comparable bow.
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Cool. That’s where I’m at I believe.
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looks nice,, enjoy (-P
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Thanks Brad...and I did enjoy. Chased a ring on it this morn after breakfast, did some honey-do's, and then reduced it to a blank this afternoon. Likin' this wood a lot so far. The sap wood is horrible to work under a draw knife, but the heart wood is a dream.
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Nice work Bob...Way to get some shavings going...That is a really nice looking stave...
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Thanks Don. I spent a long time pretty much unable to pick up a draw knife. Making up for lost time a little. I have the sinew backed static drying, the elm blank is clamped to a form and now this mulberry. I will do heat corrections on it tomorrow after I floor tiller it. Likin this wood a lot!
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thats a great stave you got there bob! im glad your able to work with a draw knife now! ill be watching! :OK (-P
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Thanks deerhunter. How was the gathering you went to?
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It was great! It was nice to see the people helping me for so long! I was given to blanks (HopHornBean and Hackberry) and Clint gave me 5 arrows. I bought a good osage stave from Clint and a hickory stave from someone (im not good with names) and a flintknapping kit (found a couple heads in some rocks!). I worked on the HHB blank that BJ gave me and it was a real treat to work with! I made a flatbow (I Think) that pulled 45-47# at 26" and it is awesome! so many kind people. I won the bear across the pond shoot along with some rivercane! just so many kind people! alot more happened but i'll keep this short. It was awesome!
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Glad you enjoyed it. Sounds like you had a big time.
Did some heat straightening today.
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Mulberry is excellent bow wood. Your dimensions sound good. You could only go out parallel 6" to 8" and you'd still be good.
I have left some sapwood on mulberry with good results but all heartwood is always your best bet.
What Pat said.
I make mine just a bit wider than an osage.
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Really nice stave! You are building exactly what I would do with it ;D
I love mulberry, makes light and snappy bows.
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Looks to taking shape right nice. Enjoy seeing how it progresses.
Hedge~
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Thanks guys. So far, I would rate Mulberry as Top Shelf. Very nice to work under a drawknife and heat bends super easy. Really anxious to get a string on it and see what it does. A few problem spots on it. I may have to glue a handle section on. It gets thin right there so I made it 1 1/4 inches wide to compensate. Also on one of the limbs I will have to crown a spot on the belly as it got pretty thin on one side from where it split. No biggie on either.
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That is looking very good. Glad to hear you like mulberry so much. I have a few staves in the pile that you are making me want to dig out sooner rather than later.
I hope the process continues well for you and can't wait to see the final pictures.
Kyle
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Looks good so far Slimbob. I took the sapwood and bark off one a few weeks ago that I harvested about three or four winters ago. I almost gave up getting that sapwood off. Wow did I need my Wheaties for that job. Glad to hear the heartwood worked easier for you. Those are some thick rings.
Bjrogg
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Thanks Kyle. I have been jonesing to do a Mulberry bow for a long time. Going all the way back to when I started making shavings. I cut this stave in Dec. 2012. I’ve read up on it a bunch and pretty much everyone that has worked it speaks highly of it. Many have claimed it as one of their favorite bow woods. Early yet for me to make any definitive statements, but thus far I am lovin’ it.
Bj...yeah the sapwood was an absolute nightmare to remove. Might be easier to remove it while it’s green, but I didn’t. It didn’t have a single drying check in the heart wood. I just sealed the ends and stored it in my garage. It didn’t peel off, it broke off in chunks. Really tuff. The heart wood works like a fine cut of meat. Anxious to see how it finishes out.
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A few more tweaks on the alignment and I'm golden. Loving this Mulberry.
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Dangit Bob, that looks good bud, Excellent progress...
Don
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Thanks Don. A few minor adjustments on alignment and the reflex, and then I will move toward getting a string on it. It's way heavy right now, but it works so easily, you can take a lot of wood off in a big hurry if your not careful.
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Got the tip overlays glued on and rough shaped. Black Cherry. Bout the only thing this stuff is good for in my opinion. Did some tweaking on the alignment and it should be good to go. Got a little floor tillering done as well. I'll get a string on it this weekend.
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Beautiful. Its great!
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Comes along nicely, Bob.
Curious what's going on.
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That's looking really nice so far Bob. Don't stop to pull up your sock.lol.
Bjrogg
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Thanks guys. Looking forward to what you have learned and put into practice Deerhunter.
Simon, your bows are all top shelf. That goes without saying. More amazing is the number of those beauties you turn out. I'm just having fun with some new toys.
Bj, been lucky to get some time in on them each evening. I needed to start something while the sinew dries on the other. Some say 2 weeks, but the consensus seems to be let it dry for a month. This was the perfect time to take a run at this Mulberry. I am really surprised with it. I'm thinning it down and it still wont bend much at floor tiller, so this wood has got some muscle to it. Dry heat with no oil on all the bends, and no splits so far as I can tell. Well, one opened on the lateral straightening, with the grain, but its nearly gone. It heat bends super easy. Just enjoying this one.
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Looks good. Enjoy. Jawge
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Thanks Jawge.
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Bob, you may need to narrow the limbs if they are getting too thin and still won't bend.
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ksnow...You said you have some mulberry in your stave pile. Don't bother with it. Just leave it in the stave pile, as this stuff isn't worth messing with really, unless your desperate or delusional. Better yet, to prevent you from making a rash decision and starting a bow with it, just send it to Texas and I will properly dispose of it for you. I will pay the freight even. No need to thank me, just doing you a large.
PS...If you have any Osage with it, send that also.
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Thanks Pat. Not to thin yet. Still some meat on the bone. It just surprises me that it is this stiff at this stage. It flexes a bit, an inch or 2. I started narrowing it a bit last night. Not much, but some. I started at 1 3/4 wide at the fades. I think I will end up about 1 5/8 inches wide.
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I think anything 1 1/2" or over is still OK. Just keep taking it slow and steady. ;)
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Slimbob,
Funny, I've had that same warning about several materials. Makes me wonder if the only "good" bow woods are soft pine and box elder :)
Kyle
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....and old Christmas trees.
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Those get piled on top of old skids in the bush for rabbit homes.
If my memory serves me right, though, there was a thread here a while ago about a christmas tree...
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Yeah, some years back...Never did see the Xmas Tree Bow.
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The first brace is always the sweetest....No long string, straight from floor tiller to about 5 inches. Pretty even I think. It's way heavy right now so a lot of muscle left to shed. I need you R/D guys to help me now. These things mess with my head. Does it look like I need to take wood off inboard? I think so but that is usually last for me. I'm gonna keep the last 4-5 inches stiff, so that leaves mid limb where the bend is happening now. What would you think?
DC...you do a bunch of these. Your thoughts sir?
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Take some off mid limb on the right and from mid limb to the fade on the left...but good start so far. :OK
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Thanks Pat. I’m seein’ what your seein’. I will work on that. These R/D bows are difficult for me to judge.
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Yep, what Pat said.
will the bow be symmetrical?
with side is upper limb?
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Bob,
Your fades are moving nicely, left one might need just a tweek...Really enjoying this build man...Gives me some inspiration, I have been in a slump with work and time...Thanks for sharing
Don,JMHO
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Hey Simon, thanks for your input. Yes it is symmetrical. On the braced pick the right limb is top.
Thanks Don. I’m just diggin’ this one. Just stumped a little on the tiller.
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Very nice Bob. I agree with Don, I'm enjoying these builds. Thanks.
Shop time has been scarce for me too, but loving to see you guys getting it done :OK
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Ben, I appreciate the kind words, but in fairness it is I who am thankful. I love making bows. Having a forum where I can share and discuss these things is a blessing. Enjoyment, enternaiment, education, and folks that enjoy it along with me. I thank you.
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Didn't get a lot of time on it today. I did fix the 2 kinks in the mid limb areas on both limbs. It had a net 3 inches of reflex, and since it's been braced and tillered on it sets immediately at 2 1/2 inches. I'm goin slow just to make sure I don't screw it up. Still tweaking the brace profile, but I think it's close. Any thoughts appreciated.
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Its coming along very nicely
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Bob,
Copied and flipped the pics...Really nice improvement man...I like to play with these pics and watch the evolution...Great work! I see that left fade movement also...
Don
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That really shows the progress, or lack of. Neat trick Don. Can I borrow that? If this were a typical flat bow, I'd be farther down the road. I'm just slowed to a crawl on this one now. Partly due to wanting the brace profile spotless, messing with alignment and profile. But these R/D's are puzzling to me. I've been looking at Simon's #100 and using that as a model on the brace and tiller profiles. You won't find a better model. I think that (the pics done that way) really makes the problems stand out.
The reflex is back up to 3 inches this morning, right where it started. For accuracy sake, I tempered the belly and added reflex by straightening the mid limb kinks. That reset the profile, but from there it's been braced, pulled on and scraped. It measured 2 1/2 inches of reflex last night after taking the string off, and regained the 1/2 inch it lost while unstrung last night. If I can keep half of that I'll be happy. Should fling a few arrows this weekend with it. Unless it snaps in half.
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To the untrained eye, it would appear that I have made little progress over the last few days, but to the truly observant it is clear that it has been far less than that. Just moving at a snails pace trying to get the profile spot on before I go much further, but I'm real close...I think. Starting to side tiller now and narrow it a bit. Love this wood.
Just a hair under 2 1/2 inches of reflex.
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She's looking good. I'd say keep on going but still watch that right side fade. Still has a slightly hingey bend.
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Thanks Pat. I will loosen up the outers next and that should catch it up.
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Bob,
Snails pace? Man you been doing some work, to a trained eye, I can appreciate what your doing and posting...Enjoying your builds man...How's the sinew looking? I like your patient approach...
Don
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Thanks Don. Sinew looks good. 7 inches of reflex right now, so it's pulled 1 1/2 inches since it was sinewed.
I am patient to some extent. I want the first brace to be close, so I am patient with the floor tiller. I want the brace profile near perfect (as close as I can get it) before I start yanking on it. Other than that my patience wears as thin as anybodies. Pictures below are full brace of 6 inches and then pulled on the tiller stick to about 15 inches. I took it to the tiller tree and its 25 lbs at 15 inches. The handle is starting to flex a bit so I am gonna glue in a piece of Persimmon next. Afraid if I'm not careful about getting it done now it may snap. Don't want that.
About 1 7/8 inches of reflex.
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It's looking great. I've been away at our Vancouver Island Bowyers Gathering so I didn't see any of this. I just really tired at the moment so I won't comment any more, I'd probably say something stupid ;D.
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Know that feeling DC. Bet it's a good tired though.
Bjrogg
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Don't sweat it. I just figured you were otherwise occupied. The shape in these R/D's give me fits. Hope the gathering was a good one.
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Comes along great. Cool work!
When I do bows like this, I work first at the inner mids, then fades and at least reduce the outers (to prevent opening up).
Best tool is patience in this stadium
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One thing I have found with RD's is that in order to keep lots of reflex you have to use a hard backing or be lucky. I've only had one RD selfbow maintain a decent amount of total reflex. So don't be too surprised if some or all of the the reflex pulls out. Because of the deflex the middle of the bow should look like it's bending a little too much and because of the reflex the outers should look like they aren't bending quite enough. This is compared to a straight bow. How much different it looks than a straight bow depends on how much deflex and reflex you have. It's a judgement call. Getting the limbs to bend the same is obviously important. As to what the full draw looks like, I think every RD is going to be different. If you can, go through Marc's posted bows and try to find one that looks similar to yours unbraced, then just make it look like his full draw. Easy ;D ;D ;D That's how I do it :D
PS If anyone disagrees with me please post with the how and why. I'm still trying to sort this all out myself.
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Thanks DC. I appreciate your input. May holler at you again. Simon, thank you as well.