Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: paulc on July 04, 2019, 12:22:38 pm

Title: Correcting tiller
Post by: paulc on July 04, 2019, 12:22:38 pm
If you have a stave that you know is coming in under weight and the tiller is still not correct-is there much value in correcting tiller and then piking/retillering to get weight? Or should I stop now w tiller work, pike it and start over? Stave is hickory, currently 69” e to e. Don’t know actual weight as I have managed to misplace my scale(why I rarely put stuff away :-).  I would guess it is mid 40’s but really have little business making that guess. There is prop twist in one limb, instead of heating twist out I tillered by removing wood preferentially from strong side so limb straightens as it flexes.

Thanks for your input. Happy 4th!

Paul
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: DC on July 04, 2019, 01:13:56 pm
I'm trying to do that at the moment. I tied the string to the bow to test the shorter length. I was really surprised how much just eliminating the recurve raised the draw weight. I'm going to get some numbers later and I'll post them on my "Continuing problem" post.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 04, 2019, 01:26:23 pm
Usually yes. Shorten and retiller. The answer is partly tied up in how long the bow is now and the draw length, but assuming you have the length, decent plan.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: Pat B on July 04, 2019, 01:52:58 pm
I would correct the tiller first then pike to desired weight if it's in the bow. No need doing extra work if the bow doesn't have it in it. Once it's tillered I would temper the belly. This could raise the weight a few pounds and would help strengthen the compression and, if you have a caul you could add some reflex but get the tiller right first.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: paulc on July 04, 2019, 02:47:52 pm
As usual some of y’all say go left and some of y’all say go right. :-)  Belly is tempered, twice. Maybe i should find/buy a scale before I do anything.....P
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 04, 2019, 03:23:29 pm
Pats advice is sound. If the tiller is off it will be off once it is piked. Questions are 1.  Is the tiller on? 2. How much can (should) you pike?
We’re it me...my tiller would be very close at this point, so I would pike it and not worry about not having enough to work with muscle wise. That’s his concern I think.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: paulc on July 04, 2019, 04:35:57 pm
That’s kinda what I was thinking Bob...if the tiller is already on, or at least close, piking ought to leave it close?  But if piking is like starting over then why bother w fixing the tiller only to cut it away. of course I have no idea how much to remove. Any guesses on how many pounds I could gain, say per inch piked? I’d like to get at least 5lbs back.....Paul
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 04, 2019, 04:56:48 pm
How long is the bow now, what’s the draw length and what’s it pulling at full draw?
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 04, 2019, 06:40:22 pm
I will make some assumptions. Draw of 28 inches?  64 inches should be fine. Maybe better than 69 at the end of the day. That’s 5 inches. 2.5 inches off each limb. Redo recurves and tips. That should bring it up a good bit and still be long enough.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: paulc on July 04, 2019, 06:54:36 pm
You’re right about draw length and current length Bob but the recurves belong to DC’s bow. What I’m working on is straight limbed, I’ll see if I have a pic. Paul
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 04, 2019, 07:58:26 pm
No sweat. Just take 2.5 inches off the tips (each). Bendy or rigid handle?
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: Pat B on July 05, 2019, 06:49:01 am
I would gradually take length off of each tip only 1" at a time but only after fixing everything else first.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: paulc on July 07, 2019, 10:44:43 am
Where I am at so far....thanks for any input!  Paul
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: burchett.donald on July 07, 2019, 12:01:36 pm
Looking great Paul...Nice and even, might want to touch that right fade a bit...
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 07, 2019, 12:19:19 pm
Take a 4 inch straight edge. 1x2. 2x2. Anything you can lay against the belly as you pull it. Check the gap between it and the bow. Wide gap...bending plenty.  No gap...not bending enough. Mark those areas with a pencil and take wood off the stiff spots. Check it frequently after 5-6 scrapes. Check it again with the straight edge. When the gap is even handle to tip. It’s right. Do the same with both limbs as you want them to stay matched with one another.
Common sense is needed. The near handle area and near non bending tips will be flat. No gap.  Everything in between should have an even gap.  Looking good.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: Woodely on July 07, 2019, 12:46:11 pm
Never had good luck in piking bows,  but admire you guys that can do that and turn out a smooth shooter without any stacking,  There is prop twist in one limb,  you can also file out the string groove on the tip more. 

"The near handle area and near non bending tips will be flat. No gap. "    You do want a little bend in the fade area though (transition area).
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 07, 2019, 12:55:24 pm
Yes you do.  Most of mine bend right out of the fade, but it bends late in the draw and wont show much gap at 15- 16 inches.  If it bends there too early you will come in under weight trying to get the outers to catch up.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: Eric Krewson on July 07, 2019, 01:45:44 pm
Well, a tillering gizmo will mark any stiff spots better than eyeballing with a block of wood, except in the fade out area.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: SLIMBOB on July 07, 2019, 02:15:56 pm
The gizmo works. A little horse sense is needed with it. Just as it is with the straight edge. Pick a method that isolates problems in the tiller and let’s you fine tune that tiller right from jump street. Straight edge, gizmo, those funky computer circles, a CD. Just find what works for you and use it.
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: paulc on July 07, 2019, 04:32:39 pm
I do use a gizmo w the pencil thru the middle, SUPER helpful.

I def need a more consistent way of placing the bow into the cradle as I swear it screws me every time I’m not super careful with putting the bow into the cradle. Currently I use pieces of  knapped scrap stone as my shims...P
Title: Re: Correcting tiller
Post by: Russ on July 07, 2019, 07:35:15 pm
The left looks a little stiff that may just be me. I reserve the right to be wrong.