Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Canerod on April 13, 2008, 08:17:42 pm

Title: Long string-short string
Post by: Canerod on April 13, 2008, 08:17:42 pm
I've got bow #2 bending nicely on the longstring  ;D  But when do I go to the short string? One more question for you, what kind of poundage can I expect out of red oak backed with linen? So far, I've been taking it to 40#, bow that's probably because that's about the weight #1 blew up at. I'd like to get 50-55# out of this one. Is that a reasonable expectation?
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: El Destructo on April 13, 2008, 08:28:14 pm
50 Pounds is reasonable out of Red Oak...just don't make it too skinny....1 1/2" wide or so.... I normally don't take it to a Short String until I get about 16-18 inches on the Long String...but everybody is different
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Lost Arra on April 13, 2008, 11:15:25 pm
I go to a short string a little quicker than yankeetejas but like he said, everyone is different.

How far is "bending nicely" on a your long string?
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Canerod on April 13, 2008, 11:23:27 pm
With the longstring shortened up as much as possible without bracing the bow, it's drawing to 16" and showing 42#. It's 71" ntn right now, so am I correct in assuming it'll take a 68" string?  And what amount of set is acceptable? As soon as I unstring it, each tip has 1" of follow.
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Lost Arra on April 14, 2008, 12:21:29 am
Don't worry about "draw" length right now. The bow is going to look different when strung and its limbs are going to bend differently.

When using a long string I look to get about 10" of tip movement primarily from inner limb bending at my draw weight or up to 10# over.

With a long string I am focusing on the inner limb movement and stiff outer limbs. The outer limbs are going to look much different when it's braced with a short string.

The more bows I make the less I use the long string.
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Canerod on April 14, 2008, 12:43:36 am
OK, I think I understand what you're saying. I'll check it and see how much movement I'm getting at the limb tip. Right now, the limbs are bending in a smooth arc. So I should focus on leaving the tips stiff and try to get the inner limbs bending more? As opposed to having the whole limb bend at this point in the tillering process. I'm going to read the chapter on tillering in TBB v.1 before I go any further tomorrow. Plus, I need to look in town for a set of scrapers.

Thanks for all of the help, I appreciate it immensely.
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: sailordad on April 14, 2008, 01:06:40 am
you dont have to buy scrapers. look around you probably already own a bunch. pocket knives work well,old piece of steel will work just put an edge on it,piece of glass just watch your skin. or you can live on the dangerous side and use one of the wifes good butcher knives >:D

or you can keep it cheap, i use a wallpaper scraper blade, i think a 4 pack cost me like 2 bucks or something and ive scraped alot of wood with them ( and i'm only on my second blade after 4 staves ) got them at home depot,they are flat and about 4 inches long and maybe 3/4 inches wide.


                                                                                       peace,
                                                                                            tim
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Pat B on April 14, 2008, 01:37:20 am
When I hit about 6" to 8" of tip movement with a long string I go to a short string and a 4" or so brace height. At this point I can see if the string is tracking properly and get a look at each and both limbs. From this point on, unless desperate measures are needed, I use only a scraper to tiller the bow. I still use a #49 rasp to true up the sides, etc but everything else is scraper work, exercise after wood removal and evaluation for the next move.
   I've made 2 hickory backed red oak bows(Home Depot). The first was a 1x2 made into an overbuilt(after Comstock) 68" bow, 2" wide most of the way out and tapering to 3/8" tips. This was an OK bow but nothing special. The second one is a 63 1/2",53#@28" hickory backed red oak pyramid style bow...2 1/2" at the fades with a straight taper to 3/8" tips. This bow is a screamer. I added about 3" of Perry reflex at glue up and it still holds about 1" relaxed. This bow has been shot by lots of folks with different shooting styles and draw lengths and is still keeping on. "Cinco de Mayo" is her name. I can't remember if I was drinking a Carona at the time or if it was May the 5th of both.  ;D   Pat
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Canerod on April 14, 2008, 10:12:10 am
Dang, I forgot about wallpaper/paint scrapers, Sailordad. I'll get one of those, but I'd still like to get a set of nice cabinet scrapers. Can't have too many tools, and I want to start making hexagonal rod cases, so they'd get used.

Pat B, I like the sound of that second bow. I've got a feeling that this first one won't be anything great, but it'll be my first  ;D  Did you get the backing lam at HD also, or someplace else?

Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Pat B on April 14, 2008, 10:14:50 am
Kevin, I bought a hickory board elsewhere and cut my own backing strips.     Pat
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Pappy on April 14, 2008, 01:16:59 pm
I'm with Pat on the long string,I get it to short brace as soon as I can,don't pull it just short brace to check everything and make sure it is all lined up,then go to the tiller tree an Inch at a time taking
care of any problems as I go.Slow and easy in the word. :) Keep us posted on how it is going.  :)
    Pappy
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Canerod on April 14, 2008, 06:00:25 pm
OK Pappy, I got it, I think. I need to get a string made, since that's beyond me at this point. But I get it braced and then just take my time with it. Using a string the length of the bow (72"), It pulls 50# at 26", with a nice smooth, even curve. I've been leaving the last 8" of each tip alone, since they were bending a bit more than the rest of the limbs, and just focusing on the fades and middle sections. I remember a tillering gizmo someone posted somewhere, basically a 4" block of wood with a hole drilled for a pencil. Running it up and down the limb belly shows flat spots to be scraped down. Seems to work pretty good, at this point. I can see how addictive this is going to be   ;D
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: lowell on April 15, 2008, 12:37:14 am
  It's 71" ntn right now, so am I correct in assuming it'll take a 68" string?  

  Is this a good rule of thumb for string length on a longbow??....3" less than NTN?? ???
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 15, 2008, 01:41:39 am
I go for ten inches of string movement and target weight. Then I string it. There is more on my site. Jawge
http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/directions.html
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: El Destructo on April 15, 2008, 02:13:51 am
50 Pounds is reasonable out of Red Oak...just don't make it too skinny....1 1/2" wide or so.... I normally don't take it to a Short String until I get about 16-18 inches on the Long String...but everybody is different

Now this has been take wrong...this is 16-18 inches on the tree...not Limb Movement....I am looking at about 6-8 inches of Tip Movement...not 16 - 18 at the Tips....my Long String is about 9-10 inches longer than my Bows
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Pappy on April 15, 2008, 07:19:27 am
That is about what I do on the tip movement ,just my long string is just long enough to
reach and tie at the tips.I use a tiller stick until I get it ready to brace,I think some ,maybe
even most use the tiller tree for long string.I use the tree after it is braced so I can't tell you what the weight is when it is first braced,if it feels to heavy I just take a little more off and then
brace.Then when on the tree I never pull it over my target weight.This may not help much
cause I do a lot of it by feel till I get it braced. :)
    Pappy
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: tom sawyer on April 15, 2008, 02:37:04 pm
Lowell, yes 3" shorter than a longbow's nock/nock length is a good starting point for a short string.

One thing to remember about long strings, is that they don't give you a proper reading on poundage.  Especially if they are longer than necessary (just long as the bow so you can get it on the nocks).

I get the tips moving about where they would be at brace, and then I short-string it at a low brace (3") and just long enough to mark weak places.  I don't usually pull a short-strung bow the first few times I string it, I can usually find stuff to correct without pulling it.
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: Lost Arra on April 15, 2008, 03:44:49 pm
Lennie: do you make those initial corrections (scraping, rasping) with the bow braced?
Title: Re: Long string-short string
Post by: tom sawyer on April 15, 2008, 05:07:57 pm
Not initially, because I don't want to stress the bow especially if the problems are pronounced.  I'll just mark with a pencil and unstring.  Rasp/scrape, restring and check.  I don't exercise the bow at all until it is bending smoothly at brace.  Only then will I pull on the string and sight down the limbs or put it on the tiller tree and exercise it to the intended weight.

I'm of a mind that you are better off getting a smooth bend before you do any significant exercising of the wood.  I used to think you had to pull on it to let the changes register, now I think all that does early on is damage wood in weak spots.