Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stickhead on January 30, 2020, 03:33:24 pm
-
Hey, y'all,
Last spring, I harvested a ton (literally) of hickory staves, debarked them in the field, and have been seasoning them in my workshop since then. My first two attempts from this batch failed. The first was a self bow, just using the outermost ring as a back. The second was rawhide-backed, also using the outer ring. Both blew during tillering. I studied the remains, and concluded that the outer several rings were weak and also were easily crushed (by a vise or misplaced sledgehammer swing). Inside of about 1/4", the wood held -- it was just the outer portion that came apart. I guess this means it's the cambium layer, even though it's white like the heartwood, and there's no clear transition between the two.
[If anyone can provide more hickory insight on this subject, I'm all ears.]
So anyway, for my third try, I shaved the back down about a quarter inch, and decided to back it with linen (a first for me). I read that hemp linen is significantly stronger in tension than the usual flax linen, so I found some online and gave it a try. I applied it with TBIII once I got to the floor tillering stage, then finished tillering it and put some arrows through it. Once I was confident it was a shooter, I put on some rattler skins which look better than the fabric and provide some camo. The belly has some interesting coloration from some whisps of heartwood, so I left that natural.
I gave it a bunch of coats of tru oil, added some purpleheart for the tips and arrow pass, and made a handle wrap from a leather scrap I found that had a kind of cool embossed pattern. I didn't want the rattles to go to waste, so I used them to dress up the handle lace.
Since I've never tried other types of linen, I can't report a comparison. However, I can say that the hemp linen was easy to work with, light, and it's holding my bow together successfully -- so I'll call it a winner.
The bow is 65" NTN, 55# @ 28", 1 7/8" wide at the fades, tapering slowly to mid-limb, then slightly more sharply to 3/8" tips. It has a total weight of 23 oz.
I plan to give this one to a friend in NC who spends most of his life fishing (as a professional charter captain) and bowhunting. He's been a compound guy so far, but I'm trying to bring him around. Who knows, maybe I'll get a fishing trip out of it.
Cheers,
...Tom
(https://i.imgur.com/SYgMuVo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WEBn6he.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AvqHQlr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K0gLpFq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/i3p9IQ8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4Zp4Gp7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D9HjUUx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Kv6Bbxv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LhSVKvm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BtmaBOV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m32sERz.jpg)
-
That’s a great looking bow! Like you I cut and split a bunch of hickory staves last winter and have made a couple bows from them but I am disappointed with the amount of string follow. I love the unbraced profile of your bow. Well done!
-
What knd of hickory. fine looking bow. Should be a great shooter.
Shawn~
-
What knd of hickory. fine looking bow. Should be a great shooter.
Shawn~
Actually, I’m not sure, Shawn. Won’t know until spring when the leaves come back on the half I didn’t cut down.
-
Great looking bow! I especially like what you did with the handle. Really sets it off
-
That's a great looking bow! Nicely done.
I have made 2 bows from a bitternut hickory tree and I found the outer rings to be surprisingly soft. I ended up backing both of those bows with silk and they shot pretty well for awhile but both eventually came apart under my backing. I have since cut down another bitternut hickory (from the same swamp) tree and made an unbacked self bow that didn't have the soft outerwood and turned out to be pretty good. I hypothesized that the tree with the softwood was just from a poor growing season. Not sure if that was it but seems like it could be.
-
Clean work. Pretty bow.
-
I like it. I have a couple pieces of that hickory. I am curious to see how it holds up. were you able to chase a ring?
-
I like it. I have a couple pieces of that hickory. I am curious to see how it holds up. were you able to chase a ring?
Jeff - the rings are pretty tight, but I think I got down to a single ring without violations. Frankly, I wasn’t overly worried about it since I knew I was backing it. If you wanna chase a ring, you’ll need plenty of light and a gentle touch. Let me know if you want to try some hemp linen!
-
Beautiful bow! I've made a lot of hickory bows from staves and don't think I've ever had one break like that on me. Mostly they'll take set before breaking. I think it needs to be really dry or heat treated but if so it can be phenomenal wood.
-
Anybody else flip the picture vertically and see too much lower limb bend?
-
Anybody else flip the picture vertically and see too much lower limb bend?
Yeah, I agree — not my finest tiller. It was supposed to be upside down with a slightly positive tiller, but I just couldn’t get the string to line up worth a dang. I flipped it late in the game, and it shoots way better this way.
-
First thought was: to much bend in LL.
With my (little) experience with Hickory that will end up in compression cracks. Won't take much to change that to the better!
-
Good effort, she looks beautiful :)
But you have most of the bend in one spot on the lower limb and it is weak compared to the upper. When tiller is off like that it won't shoot as nice as it could with good tiller and of course the over strained parts will break down off time.
Also it is more or less pointless backing hickory, learn to chase a ring and you will have the strongest back around :)
-
That's a beauty in all aspects, very nice bow. :)
Pappy
-
Nothing looks finer than hickory with those many colors of the hart wood. Really like how you dressed up that handle!
Mike
-
Well, thanks for the kind comments and helpful advice, guys. The good news is, I’ve got plenty more hickory to practice on.
(https://i.imgur.com/xLMAGcu.jpg)
-
Nice cabin, but where are the staves? ;D
Oh, and nice bow! I agree with the lower limb comments, but if it shoots well, I don't blame you for leaving it.
-
Odd that you had two hickory bows break on the tillering tree. Did their backs collapse and fold or did they splinter and fly apart. Hickory is used for backing so growth rings violations isn't a concern. But again, there's good hickory and bad hickory. Mostly depends on how it was cared for after harvesting.
If I know I have some good hickory to work with I generally rasp the back smooth or flatten and start my bows from that point. I even concaved the back and slightly radiused the belly on of my finest hickory bows. So I know you can do a lot with good hickory. Curious to know how you cared for your wood after being cut?
Your bow looks really nice, but that weaker lower limb will only get worse as others have mentioned...…..Art
-
Odd that you had two hickory bows break on the tillering tree. Did their backs collapse and fold or did they splinter and fly apart. Hickory is used for backing so growth rings violations isn't a concern. But again, there's good hickory and bad hickory. Mostly depends on how it was cared for after harvesting.
If I know I have some good hickory to work with I generally rasp the back smooth or flatten and start my bows from that point. I even concaved the back and slightly radiused the belly on of my finest hickory bows. So I know you can do a lot with good hickory. Curious to know how you cared for your wood after being cut?
Your bow looks really nice, but that weaker lower limb will only get worse as others have mentioned...…..Art
Art,
I'm glad you asked. Maybe I'll get some consensus on the subject. Below are the two that blew. In both cases, I roughed them out after only about 3 months drying, and accelerated the drying by letting them bake in my hot attic until they quit dropping weight. I don't know if this was the reason for the failures or not. In the meantime, the other staves have been stacked in my workshop (not usually temperature controlled), sealed and sprayed with borax to keep the bugs away. I live in Virginia, where it's humid in the summer, and drier in the winter. I didn't heat treat them per se, but I used dry heat to bend them on a caul. I just used the outermost ring as the back, without rasping or anything.
Both broke in straight lines across the back, down to about 1/4". The rawhide-backed one actually blew in 3 places simultaneously, in the same manor. (See the 2 circled spots on the limb where it cracked but didn't break the rawhide.)
As you can see from the end-on pic of the broken off limb, the outer several rings are extremely porous - so much that you can actually see the holes that run through it. I believe this is why it's so weak there.
(https://i.imgur.com/XcjFlZq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fmaWaeF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/btvLdR0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3aN3xtg.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/ABbO7ev.jpg)
-
I live next door in WV so I understand the weather extremes you're dealing with. Funny you should mention the fact that you stored your staves in the attic. I've been teaching a friend my bow making method, and I was really concerned that the hickory we were working with had also been stored in his attic all last summer. He had made one attempt at a bow on his own but it fretted on him. So he dropped off a hickory stave and I preformed a bend/break test on it. Test piece took a great bend before collapsing, indicating it was solid for bow making. His bow turned out great from that stave and he's been shooting it in for over month now.
Those breaks are not indicative of good hickory. Good hickory will collapse and fold and not shatter like your bows. First guess is that your staves were super dry to begin with. With your staves being dry to begin with, and add in this really low humidity we're experiencing, may have contributed to your bows breaking. That's if you didn't leave your wood laying around outside on the ground for a while before storing in your attic......Art
-
I had an elm bow do the same thing--I think for the same reason. It looks like the cambium is still on at least one of those staves, and when it gave out on me, it took the rest of the limb with it. When I scraped that stuff off, the bow held up. It is weird that the break seems to go straight down for 1/4 inch, though. I assume that is why you went below that level for the third attempt. is the second one rawhide backed? It doesn't seem to have mattered. How many arrows do you have through the successful bow?
-
I’ve cut a lot of hickory like this that’s all crunchy earlywood for the first half inch or so. After chasing rings the wood usually gets much better. Every time it’s happened I’ve gotten the tree from a swamp. Dunno if the problem is the water or the type of hickory that grows there. I believe most of these were shagbark but i’ve seen it happen with shell bark too. These are the only times i’ve broken hickory in tension, and the breaks looked just like yours. That strip of broken back you’re holding in the last pic has so much air in it, looks just like what I’ve seen. Those growth rings are barely bigger than the pores.
Bow looks awesome btw. Love those rattlers on the handle stitch.
-
Only hickory bow that I've had to blow like that was a shell bark hickory. A friend had gifted it to me. I was shooting the bow in when let go! Kinda of gun shy on shell bark hickory now. Problem could have been how it was cared for after being cut. Don't know.....Art
-
I had an elm bow do the same thing--I think for the same reason. It looks like the cambium is still on at least one of those staves, and when it gave out on me, it took the rest of the limb with it. When I scraped that stuff off, the bow held up. It is weird that the break seems to go straight down for 1/4 inch, though. I assume that is why you went below that level for the third attempt. is the second one rawhide backed? It doesn't seem to have mattered. How many arrows do you have through the successful bow?
Jeff - yes, the 2nd one was rawhide backed. I’ve had a few dozen arrows through the survivor so far. I’ll let you know if it doesn’t hold up. The wood is definitely better below about 1/4”.
-
Well, I decided I could spare a few more pounds, so I revisited the tiller slightly. I got the top limb bending a little more, and spread out the bend on the bottom just a bit. It's 50# @ 28" now, and I don't really want to drop any more. Does this look any better?
(https://i.imgur.com/9Zz610C.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RmgDejw.jpg)
-
It's almost impossible to to break good hickory. It usually can bend drastically and still not break. Breaking across grain like yours did tells me it was infected by fungi. I also doubt that seasoning it in the attic would adversely affect it. Hickory preforms best at lower M/C(5% to 6%) so it's hard to get it too dry in ,most areas.
Your tiller looks better but you could still get more bending right under the handle on the lower limb but stay away from the bend that is already there.
-
Beautiful bow. As long as set isn't a problem I wouldn't change a thing.
-
Hey Stick,
That stave is full of bug bites. One of which is clearly visible in the 7th pic down, of the tip. That dark spot along the edge, just under the ring that is your back, is a bug bite running across the stave, and the thin dark line extending from it on either side, is the tree's reaction to the damage. I saw alot of dark figuring in the the rings of the handle/fade area of the belly, which is also likely the result of bug damage.
When the bugs tunnel between the summer wood rings, it can cause the stave to de-lam between the rings; and it weakens the wood and makes it act more brash & brittle.
There is no good reason in the world to ever have to back a hickory bow–even with violations, so it makes me think you might've missed some subtle bug damage in your earlier attempts that failed.
–John