Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B on March 31, 2020, 08:42:05 am
-
I spent 4 hours yesterday fitting this take down sleeve of a set of yew billets for Trapper Rob. I'm sure Rob is happy to see the progress on his bow after so many months. I haven't glued the sleeves yet but I will start shaping the limbs today.
I need glue for the sleeves. Is there an appropriate locally available glue for this application like 2ton epoxy or whatever. I'd hate to have to buy a quart of glue that I have no other use for. This is the first takedown sleeve I've installed so any other info will be helpful and appreciated.
It been so long I almost forgot the pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/0H9mN80.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lsamfbU.jpg)
-
MT-13 Takedown Bow Sleeve Glue in 5 oz tubes is what 3 Rivers sells for the sleeves.
-
MT13 is what I had the best luck with. I had a few failures before I bought MT13.
-
oK guys, thanks. Sounds like it's MT13.
-
Look in good )P(
-
oK guys, thanks. Sounds like it's MT13.
Pat are these only glued in place? Seems to me a mechanical connection, a pin or couple of pins would be needed along with the glue. It would certainly prevent failure if the glue didn't hold. I can't imagine a 1/8" brass or stainless pin would cause any issue in the sleeve location but would give a good amount of stability to it. Just random thoughts from a blacksmith who has never made a take down so, a grain of salt.
-
Look gud thus far Pat.
HH~
-
Not sure how much you cut into the back for the male section. People talk of them popping apart there if the bend goes into the fades at all.
-
Put me down for once. Lesson learned.
-
Handforged, Both pieces of the sleeve, one steel one brass, fit the tenon on the bow quite tightly. I'll have a problem getting them apart to glue them. A pin in part of the outer sleeve(steel) might be an option but one in the brass(inner) might hamper the assembly/disassemble because of their close fit. I'm going to have to polish the outside of the brass piece to ease the assembly/disassembly(takedown feature).
A question For our yew experts...This bow will be about 66"t/t(64"n/n), about 1 1/4" wide at the fades and so far out until the last 6" of each tip. Draw weight will be 45#-55#@26" to 28". My question is how thick should(can) the sapwood be. Now it's about 3/8" thick. Would 1/4" be better? There are a couple of 1/4" knots but nothing I'm worrying about.
Pat, I'm using 3" fades to hopefully alleviate any chance of that.
-
Pat I would prefer the 1/4" sapwood. I like at least 2/3 of the limbs to be heartwood. You will probably have a thickness of at least 5/8" when your done.
-
That's what I was thinking, Pearlie but wanted a little reassurance. ;)
Thanks
-
I agree wit htose dimensions and definitely the bending into the fades at all....my failure was because I braced it too early forcing the fades to bend. They were the nicest osage billets I've ever had as well and it still pains me to think about it!
Good plan with the three inch fade length and your width taper is also a good idea for the same reason.
As long as the ends of the billets are super dry (so no further shrinkage over the years) and you use MT13 I've found pins to be unnecessary.
-
Be gentle with the sleeves Pat, if you have to to much polishing to get them to fit, they will tick or even pop when you shoot it, so gentle is the key, no tapping or clamping. Pappy
-
bownarra, these billets are quite dry.
Yeah, Pappy, I've heard the horror stories. I can see slight rub marks on the brass sleeve when I pull it apart so that's where I'll use very fine emery cloth to polish it lightly. I was gentile enough getting both pieces fitted so neither part warped while fitting.
-
Lookin good Pat, get’n into some good ole yew 😁 looking forward to see the finished piece
If you want you can go pretty thin with the sapwood if you want since the weight won’t be too much. But like Chris said 1/4” is usually the rule a thumb:)
oK guys, thanks. Sounds like it's MT13.
Pat are these only glued in place? Seems to me a mechanical connection, a pin or couple of pins would be needed along with the glue. It would certainly prevent failure if the glue didn't hold. I can't imagine a 1/8" brass or stainless pin would cause any issue in the sleeve location but would give a good amount of stability to it. Just random thoughts from a blacksmith who has never made a take down so, a grain of salt.
I know a lot of guys just use the proper adhesive, but i pin mine, just for that added whatever lol
Copper rivet through the steel sleeve and a brass pin for the brass sleeve. Once it’s all cleaned up can’t hardly tell the brass has been pinned in.
-
Very interesting project! Seems a bit above my skill level at present, though! I will watch with interest, though!
Hawkdancer
-
Hi Pat, looking forward to your project!
Be gentle with the sleeves Pat, if you have to to much polishing to get them to fit, they will tick or even pop when you shoot it, so gentle is the key, no tapping or clamping. Pappy
This is why I like to make my own stuff.
Not sure how much you cut into the back for the male section. People talk of them popping apart there if the bend goes into the fades at all.
+1!
-
I've taken the limbs down a bit, both back and belly. The sapwood was at about 3/8" so I've reduced it to about 1/4" now. The overall limb thickness is about 9/16" and I can barely get any bend from each limb. I'll be sticking to the belly now and see where it takes me. I'll post a few pics later today.
-
I've reduced the limbs but realized after putting the bow back together that one limb is considerably stronger so I'll work on it more to get things evened out. Because of the shape of the bow near the handle you will see the limbs are deflexed slightly. My intentions are to reflex the limbs, at least the outer limb. One limb has a upward kick in the last inch. I'll just try to incorporate that in the added reflex or just live with it.
Here are a few pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/syWSlB9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/e2sRlpu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/btmApu0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dH5OEn4.jpg)
-
It may feel very stiff right now, but it can change really quick with yew. Go slow sir. Feels weird giving advice to the guy that taught me so much :)
-
We're all in this together, Mr. Pearlie. ;)
I was reducing each limb separately and trying to flex them to see if and how the bend was. Once I put it together and had more leverage I realized my first method was not good, gave me false info. So slow and steady now for sure.
I still haven't glued the sleeve parts to each limb yet but they are tight enough together it seems to work OK.
-
Lookin good bud!
-
Thanks, Bryce. I'm taking it slow and steady just trying to get back in the swing of things.
-
Very good start to your bow Patrick.Like the starting profile.Good job.
-
Really looking nice Pat
-
Thanks guys. Rob, I'm enjoying the build once I got at it. :OK
I'll have to put more work on hold until I get the glue for the sleeves. I could hear the wood to metal noises today while exercising it so I decided to wait until the sleeve parts are glued in place.
-
Looking good Pat.
Arvin
-
I got the sleeves glued on a few weeks ago. I ended up using JB Weld. I couldn't justify using the MT40, $35 for 2, 5oz tubes that I might use an ounce or two. Anyway, it's done.
Yesterday I started reflexing the tips. Got the first one done and let it cool over night. You will see the small wedge on the right in a few pics I used for realignment...
(https://i.imgur.com/vSyQWTM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xCYB3lf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gfU33Tj.jpg)
...and the results...
(https://i.imgur.com/oMC926Y.jpg)
...and this morning. I had to use a wood clamp with "C" clamps and Stilson wrenches to eliminate a bit of twist as I heated it.
(https://i.imgur.com/S8oGjzv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fqt6pU5.jpg)
I used oil on the limb tips before heating. I think it holds the heat better and helps distribute the heat better. Just my theory.
I'll post the results after everything cools down well.
-
This is what she looks like today.
(https://i.imgur.com/XRqxt1g.jpg)
-
Looks pretty good to me, but I'm a beginner!
Hawkdancer
-
I like that one a lot.
-
Really looks nice Pat
-
Looks great!
-
Thanks guys.
She's coming along, Rob, slowly but surely. ;)
-
That is really looking good. I’ve made a couple takedown bows and they are really nice to shoot with the extra weight in the handle. I use paraffin wax on my sleeves. Good luck with the completion and thanks for sharing your build!
-
Got to admit this one looks like it going to be a beauty.
-
Those reflex deflex bows are smooth shooters. Most of mine ended up that way because of set. Still great bows. Looking good Pat.
Arvin
-
The deflex is natural on these sister billets so I decided to add some reflex at the tips to compensate. We'll see how she turns out.
-
I got her to low brace and spent the last few days aligning the tips with the heat gun and a bit of oil. Today I narrowed the limb tips and added overlays. I decided to use thick shoe leather for the overlays that I will saturate with super glue. I went with the leather because of some irregularities and a short kick in one limb tip. I soaked the leather until it was flexible then remover the excess moisture and glued them to the tips with TBIII and wrapped with rubber bands. I'll let them dry for a few days because it's pretty humid lately.
Here's a few pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/AdWLtNX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JZQqzsz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ndS5JSo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8p4Vm5L.jpg)
-
It's coming along nicely for you Pat.Looks great.
-
Looking good Pat, I like the leather idea. ??? Have used it on grips but not on tip but will keep that in mind. ;)
Pappy
-
Thanks Ed and Pappy.
Pappy, I've used leather for overlays before successfully and especially on uneven surfaces like this one tip because it conforms easily. I scraped and sanded these tips smooth but with the one kicked up tip I needed something to conform to it. Once I saturate with super glue the leather holds up well for overlays and looks pretty cool. The glue brings out the grain of the leather.
-
The leather overlays have basically dried. You can see the depressions from the rubber bands. Wet leather is easily molded. That's why I use it for uneven surfaces. I'm going to give the leather and glue another few days to be sure they arte completely dry before I add the super glue.
(https://i.imgur.com/BU5m7JM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xfU4MOU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pf4HoGG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ly0Ya1i.jpg)
-
Tip overlays made of infiltrate leather...that's new to me, gotta try this..
-
Neat idea on the tips. Do you soak the leather in water, glue with TB3 so they conform to shape and then soak with superglue to make them hard?
-
Yes! As I shape the tips and overlays I usually have to continue adding super glue when getting below the saturation point of the super glue in the leather. Once fully shaped and smoother I add one last coat of super glue and sand with fine sand paper. Most bow finish should go over the overlays without problem.
-
Have you ever tried more than one layer? Like if your leather wasn't thick enough.
-
Yeah, DC. I've used a couple of thicknesses but only oak tanned leather. Belt leather, 6oz to 8oz works fine. I imagine other types of leathers would work but I have a supply of pre-cut shoe soles left over from my leather shop 40+ years ago so that's what I use.
-
I got her new string made and she's at full brace and I'll let her sweat for a few hours...
(https://i.imgur.com/GQkQGK1.jpg)
tip overlays almost finished. I'll finish them after the snake skins go on...
(https://i.imgur.com/1YivQ9y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0aLFM3f.jpg)
arrow rest attached to the handle/sleeve and she'll have a leather wrap on the handle...
(https://i.imgur.com/menRGKv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lnIB9XL.jpg)
I put a couple of dozen shot through her. She shoots well but my arrows aren't quite right for this bow.
To be continued.
-
looks fine Pat!
the leather tips have a nice touch with the multi colored surface.
-
Here's another tease shot. I added a set of western D back skins and got the edges cleaned up. Still need to shoot her about 50 more shots and maybe a bit of tweaking the tiller and of course a few coats Tru-Oil.
Here is the tease shot...
(https://i.imgur.com/QpUYF54.jpg)
-
Very nice!
Can't wait for the FD...