Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stickshooter on June 18, 2020, 10:08:50 am
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Hi all, first post, some very nice info and beautiful bows on this site! I’ve been interested in building a few bows for myself/family to do some target practice with. I figured a board bow would be the ideal learning method. Local store only carries red oak. On doing some reading and research, I have become more confused than ever as to what qualifies as a “good” board to start with. I’m not scared to break a few in the learning process, but certainly wouldn’t want to have one break on one of my kids etc. So a couple questions. Is ray (fibre) direction or “grain” (figure) more important? Is it acceptable to have poor grain on the face or sides for a backed bow? I picked up a board with relatively straight grain on the face, rift sawn, but diagonally grained on the edge (many run offs on edge grain) I am failing to see how a rift saw board would have any other grain pattern to it. Am I missing something or do I just need to have a larger selection of boards to look at? I can have hickory ordered in (bought site unseen) is it really that forgiving of a wood to just grab a few boards and go from there or is it still somewhat critical to judge the grain? I do plan on getting TBB series to educate myself more on the topic, but would like to gain enough insight into the process to be able to start sooner than later. Thanks in advance for any insights and opinions!
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You want the grain as straight as possible, both on the back and on the sides. Run offs can be OK if they are long along the bow on the back and less so along the sides.
Check out George Tsoukalas' site. You will find it at the top of the "How To..." page. George gives you all the info you'll need to select the right board and the process to build a bow.
If you are concerned about a bow breaking you can always back it with silk, linen, brown grocery bag paper or other materials. I believe George covers that too. You can buy used neck ties from a thrift shop for a dollar or so and that will give you protection and a decorative pattern on the back of the bow.
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In the simplest terms, you can know that the grain in a board is straight if the growth rings run parallel down the length of the board on all four sides of the board. No matter how a board is sawn, if this is true the grain is straight. I have found plenty of rift sawn boards with the growth rings parallel on all sides. I say it is critical to have straight grain with any wood species, hickory included. Seen too many broken hickory bows with bad grain to think otherwise.
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Yes do not expect hickory with dodgy grain to hold together.
One of the TBB has an excellent chapter on board selection. Never found a better chapter to point someone just starting out.
Straight grain is absolutely key.
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I would suspect a rift sawn board with lots of runoffs on the sides to come from a twisted tree. I have many rift sawn boards on my rack with parallel lines down all sides.
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You want the grain as straight as possible, both on the back and on the sides. Run offs can be OK if they are long along the bow on the back and less so along the sides.
Check out George Tsoukalas' site. You will find it at the top of the "How To..." page. George gives you all the info you'll need to select the right board and the process to build a bow.
If you are concerned about a bow breaking you can always back it with silk, linen, brown grocery bag paper or other materials. I believe George covers that too. You can buy used neck ties from a thrift shop for a dollar or so and that will give you protection and a decorative pattern on the back of the bow.
Thank you, I have looked through George's site and found a lot of valuable information. I have read a lot of online information and I think this is where my confusion comes from (a man with 1 watch knows the time, a man with 2 is never quiet sure!) On another site I read a alleged reprint of "Tim Baker's your first wooden bow" (of TBB), where he states not to worry about edge grain. Thus I am confused! I think I will tiller this board as practice, as I have very few options for wood in my area and I think hands on experience will be beneficial to learning; Sounds like some safety glasses will be in order! Is there any other usage or salvation's for a board with non-linear grain? Ie. Re-Saw along the grain and utilize as arrow footings or some other bow building process?
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With 1/4 sawn look at the edge grain. With plane and rift sawn the edge grain reflects what the face grain is doing.
That's why I look at the edge grain.
I actually prefer rift sawn.
Jawge
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grain and ring lines are not the same. I think this might cause confusion in these discussions.
Most advice given is in reference to ring lines, even if the word grain is used.
Having straight ring lines is necessary to having grain as straight as can be had by casual visual observation. If there is a runout in the ring line, most likely the grain is violated also.
If the grain spirals in a growth "tube". (think of a years growth in a tree as a tube), then the grain will be violated when a board with straight ring lines is milled from the log.
How can one tell if the grain is straight and not spiraled if only looking at the ring lines on a board? There was a description of using a scribe or point to follow the grain on a stave, in one of TBB's. It could help detect spiral grain on the flat sawn face of a board.
Not knowing much about the tree, when choosing a board, is why some bowyers prefer to harvest and split their own wood, even if milling into boards to utilize in board bow designs.
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I am referring to the tip to tip grain. You also see that in a stave. Jawge
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grain and ring lines are not the same. I think this might cause confusion in these discussions.
Most advice given is in reference to ring lines, even if the word grain is used.
Having straight ring lines is necessary to having grain as straight as can be had by casual visual observation. If there is a runout in the ring line, most likely the grain is violated also.
I think this also explains where some of my confusion comes in. On the board I have, if I follow the figure or growth rings it’s got tons of run off on the edges, and fairly straight lines until about 18” from the end when it curves off drastically, on the faces. The rays and fibre appear to be fairly straight end to end of the board, both in the face and the edges (I think, it’s been a long time since I took woodworking and some of it is pretty fuzzy now 😂!) my thoughts are that the board should be strongest following the grains. On the flip side, the figure would visually seem to be the weak “point” in the board when it was flexed..
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Pictures please. Jawge
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Pictures please. Jawge
Sorry, New to the board, I have been trying to figure out how to insert pictures.. Hopefully there is 3 attached here, all of the face. 1st is the majority of the boards figure. 2nd and 3rd are the curvy part at the end. To me, in the 3rd photo, it looks like the figure runs off the edge, but the fiber stays straight and flows through to the end of the board.
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Pictures please. Jawge
Sorry, New to the board, I have been trying to figure out how to insert pictures.. Hopefully there is 3 attached here, all of the face. 1st is the majority of the boards figure. 2nd and 3rd are the curvy part at the end. To me, in the 3rd photo, it looks like the figure runs off the edge, but the fiber stays straight and flows through to the end of the board.
Sorry if these pictures are to big... In this post is the boards edge, 1 of each side, and then I tests cut a corner off the board, following the figure (growth ring) on the face. It is also edge.
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Think these are scaled down a bit now. This is overall board layout, and end grain.
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Thank you.
See how the grain lines are wandering off the edge. That board will break. I am afraid. Jawge
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Bigger pics are better :)
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perhaps the word grain is not the best either. the fiber direction is what needs to be straight. this article helps with the different terms.
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/the-way-wood-works-reading-grain-direction/
the tips here are for seeing directions to make planing easier, but I doubt you will find fibers that cross ring lines, so ring line runoffs will also be fiber runoffs.
a sapling you collect yourself is a possibility for finding a straight save.
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Thank you.
See how the grain lines are wandering off the edge. That board will break. I am afraid. Jawge
Thanks Jawge, and everyone else; I’m going to attempt to tiller this board just for practice, with the expectations it will most likely break.. At least the hands on practice of going through the motions should give me a boost in the right direction for when I do find an acceptable board.
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Here are some pics of what you are looking for in a board (click on the pics for a bigger version):
(https://i.imgur.com/qHFAVWS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eleg9en.jpg)
The end grain, showing it is a fairly flat bias cut:
(https://i.imgur.com/yk1vvdG.jpg)
This board made a decent pyramid bow that shot just fine. I still didn't quite trust the grain runouts in a couple spots and backed it with fabric anyway. It died when I tried a heat treating experiment and scorched a spot on one limb. Even the finest bow can't withstand a ham-fisted rookie bowyer...
Mark