Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: mmattockx on October 04, 2020, 05:11:42 pm
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What do the PA members do differently if they are making a target bow as compared to a hunting bow? Assume draw weight and draw length are to be identical for both types.
Thanks,
Mark
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well that takes me out of discussion, cause my hunting bows are shorter,, but good question,,
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My hunting bows are my target bows.
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for hunting I like the bow to balance naturally in the hand and be able to nock and draw without rattling the arrow or taking your eye off the game.
shorter is more convenient for hunting and I find longer easier to be accurate (repeatable) with when target shooting. (maybe I aim longer at the paper targets)
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my hunting bow is the best bow i got. target bows are the ones i dont use and put in the corner.
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Longer with less draw weight.
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I'm with Pat B!
Hawkdancer
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well that takes me out of discussion, cause my hunting bows are shorter,, but good question,,
I worded that poorly. I meant that draw weight and draw length are the same for both bows, not that the bow length is the same. I edited my post to clarify.
You say your hunting bows are shorter, that is one of the things I was wondering about.
Mark
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I guess, in general a target bow would be longer maybe with a longer, heavier riser and maybe slightly whip ended but I've never built or shot a target bow. Also, my hunting bows aren't necessarily short. I've hunted with bows as long as 72" and as short as 47"(sinew backed osage r/d).
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I make what I consider target bows for me for indoor winter shooting. I quit killing now ,but when I did hunt I used 58 inch 45lb bows. For target shooting I build 62 to 64 inch bows 35lbs. at 26 inch draw from Osage, Black Locust, or Elm, and also have an ILF 66 inch Fivics recurve, and a 70 inch Hoyt Pro Medalist vintage target recurve that are both 35lb s at 28 inches though I shoot them at 26 inch draw. Heavier dead in the hand bows that are longer ,and lighter draw weight are the norm for true target shooting if you want to compete. If you are a hunter , and back yard shooter then your hunting bow will do.
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well ok as I have gotten older,,not so much wiser, sometimes I hunt out of a blind,,so I have made some bows that are shorter for blind hunting or treee stand,,
54 inches was what I shot 20 years ago for hunting, and my target bow, or 3d bow was 70 inches,,
I only drew the short bow 24 or 25 inches and the longer bow I shot at a longer draw,,
ok that being said,, I dont target shoot any really now,, just hunting bows, I will practice sometimes with the long bow cause I like it, and fun to shoot,,
but lately I have been concentrating on bows that draw 23 and 24 inches,,, shooting through the chronograph showed me designed properly they have good cast, but like Laubin says in his book,, they take a bit more skill to shoot well, so I am just practicing to see what I can do,,
my draw is shorter on the hunting bow,, and longer on the target bow,, hunting bows for me are designed for short range,, and the target bow for longer range,,
that being said, there have been times when I hunted with the longer target bow with success,or shot my hunting bow in competitions,,, but when you are in a blind and cant draw it,, makes you reconsider some options on length., Turkey hunting comes to mind, even in a brush blind,, catching the end of your bow on a twig, can really mess with your shot sequence,, :)
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I remember one of the TBB volumes stating that the average Native American hunting bow came in around 54 inches. Some were shorter, some longer. War bows were, on average, significantly longer. To me, that says something. I decided to force myself to hunt with a longer bow this year, 67 inches tip-to-tip. I am regretting this decision, but will follow through on it so I can get a sense for the longer bows limitations even as I plan a shorter build for next year.
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I find as I build and shoot different bows, I can see advantages that are not apparent when just looking at them,,
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Great thread. Eric, what were the limitations? Maybe new thread, in Shooting and Hunting.
I too enjoy a longer bow for target fun, and 57" is great for hunting. I shoot alot on my butt, and the Az desert still has crazy thick thickets.
Good point, Brad.
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I hunt as much or maybe slightly more than i target shoot but most days an arrow never leaves my shelf. Yes, i said shelf. Both my hunt and target bows have shelves. I shoot both straight up no cant.
My target bows i shoot 3 under, hunt split finger. The target rigs i tube shoot and they can be same length and weight. The difference is how i aim. I gap with both but i gap over at longer shots target shooting. I never gap over in hunting.Always gap under thereby i alway have the animal in my sight picture! Split finger gets me point on at about 30yds with 575-600grn arrow at 45lbs. If i face walk my hold a tad lower i get to 35yds PO. Just the way i have always shot hunting.
With split finger and selfbow I get a faster arrow as well.
Shawn
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My target bows i shoot 3 under, hunt split finger.
Why is that?
Mark
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Eric, what were the limitations?
Biggest limitation is getting a clean draw and release is harder with a longer bow in the areas I hunt. Vermont has lots of brush in its forests owing to fire suppression. When I find myself in a position to take a shot, which is rare, it can be hard to draw and release without having the bow's tips contact sticks and other things. Very frustration for me. Shorter bows lessen this trouble.
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With 3 under at ranges to 27yds I can shoot on avg a little more accurate. Split I can get a little more speed out of my hunt bows and "I never have to hold over the spot I want my arrow to hit". I Gap so i have a sight picture i maintain just like shooting Combat Pistol "i want my sight picture to always have the target in it not holding over it".
I'm 74.5" tall so I never worried about carrying a long bow even in the thick stuff. I figgered if i got to push thru this mess I surely can take a 74" bow thru it with me. Never shot in an enclosed blind. Always used a ghillie blind with an open top, still do today. Killed most all my big game with bow from using a Hasty Ghilie/Natural Blind. Just in the last 8yrs or so did I start hunting from tree stands.
So you see, my Target Bow and Hunting Bows look same but are shot entirely different. What a good shelf on a selfbow will do for you. Don't have to cant bow to get an arrow to fly well and.......it allows you plenty of cushion to use a wider variety of spines and point weights. Not to mention if yer tree standing it the arrow stays put.
I'm sure you'll get more and different ideas. Don't sell or look at selfbows, just shoot the beJesus out of them.
Shawn~
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I can't help much beyond what Pat said but I have always (30 years...longer if you count FG bows) used hunting bows for target and 3D. Jawge
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Dang hedgehunter I didn't even think about the ability to leave an arrow nocked and ready with a shelf.
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When I'm hunting I sit with my bow across my lap, an arrow nocked and ready with my shooting hand on the string. Ideally, when I see a deer coming I slowly stand and get my stance ready for the shot. As the deer approaches I put tension on the string and when I'm ready for the shot I slowly draw and release...or let down and await another chance. I never hold a bow, especially a selfbow at full draw for more than a second or two. I use this same method, basically for target or 3D shooting. To keep from confusing my brain with any of this is why my hunting bows and target and 3D bows are the same.
By a month before hunting season I have chosen my hunting bow exclusively but I also have a back up bow that shoots similar to my hunting bow just in case.
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On ground i usually stay seated unless i need to clear something. Always set my ghillie net at shoulder height seated. Shot many whitetAils at 2-3yds seated mostly quarter away. Fun to kill when yer eyeball to eyeball on ground and know you have beat their nose and eyes at 6ft.
At those ranges you cant take bow off yer lap and move it vertical. I hold it upright arrow in shelf fingers on string prolly starting when deer are 50yds out. That way its at almost in drAw position seated. Then, its a snap shot at 6-10ft split finger with my gap right on belly line.
The best thing about groynd standing is:
When your shot travels into game you almost always get both lungs. Not one and out!!
HH~
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Pat I definitely would shoot the same for hunting and targets for the reason you stated. Hedge I am WAY to impatient to hunt from the ground the only way I can stay and give a spot a chance is hanging in a tree
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Why you carring brown shoe polish.
Shawn~
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Way you carring brown shoe polish.
Shawn~
I have no idea what this means
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What target shooting do you have in mind, and just how serious are you about it? Their are several target games. Every thing from shooting candles out to shooting a Blue faced 20 yd. target to field target shooting to 3D to shooting to air targets. etc etc etc. Their are varying opinions above, and that is OK. Different strokes for different folks. Build a longer bow like your favorite shooting shorter hunting bow ,and pick a target game. Shoot against yourself with the 2 bows, and study the results. Then you will have answered your own question. For me it is heavier bow by at least a lb., lighter draw, a deep shelf, string nock, Low stretch string, bone tip over lays, and longer limbs for better string angle, and less string pinch ,and shooting 2 fingers under. If you find that longer, and heavier is not better for you cut the bow down ,and make it the way you want it. That is the nice part of bow building . You can do what you want with it.
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how do you keep your bow string from hitting the ghillie ,, I cant shoot in one very well
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Its built on a net not a suit. You set the net up slightly in front of you. I wear camo and ensure i have a good back drop behind me. When wearing a suit you just keep burlap etc off your front side arm. If you can shoot in a winter coat and cold gear your can shoot in a Suit.
Shawn~
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Why you carring brown shoe polish.
Shawn~
Still no idea what your asking
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I enjoy shooting for its own sake, but what I really want is to know I can make a good shot at an animal when the time comes. Shot opportunities are very rare around here, so I want to make them count. So I use the same bow and technique for targets and hunting. I have enough trouble staying consistent without switching bows and grips! If I ever get to a 3d shoot again, I might practice gap shooting for the long shots. I would never need that technique for hunting because I would never take a shot beyond 30 yards, unless it were launching at a rabbit or carp.
Other than that, same old same old.
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but you can set you gap for 30 if you want,, to be point on,,
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If you shoot a fawn with spots, brown shoe polish to cover the spots. ;) :) :) :) :) Most folks I know make a target bow a little longer and lighter in weight and usually more elaborate grip. I use the same bow for targets that I plan on hunting with as others have said. :) I do shoot a lot of tournaments but it is just for fellowship and to stay in practice for hunting which is my real love. :)
Pappy
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If your point on there is no Gap. You can play with arrow weight and a lower anchor on face to push your point on out, sure. My minimum arrow weight for hunting selfbow is 500grns and I think thats a little light. More like 550-650grns.
Think the lightest selfbobow I killed whitetails with 37lbs 500grn arrow. Two holes in deer but arrow was sticking out, deer went 50yds maybe. That was a target weight bow but I just shot in my hunting style of shooting is all.
Shawn~
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Ha I've never heard that pappy, thank you for clearing that up it was driving me nuts
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Hunting,and target shooting are 2 different games. With hunting placing the arrow in the kill zone of say a white tail with the first cold shot is the one that counts. I have a friend that I shoot target with. I use a target bow ,and he uses a hunting bow. On a blue faced target at 20 yds. my shooting is more consistent than his if we shoot for score, but his 1st shot always is in the kill Zone of a white tail, and he scores a buck ,and a couple does every year. He is an excellent hunting shot, and hunter and, uses a 55 lb bow, and keeps his shots 25 yds ,and in. Practice 1st shot cold. It will help you to become a better hunting archer.
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What target shooting do you have in mind, and just how serious are you about it?
I'm not looking at competition, just wanted to know what sort of changes others do in the design of the bow to suit target shooting more than hunting.
For me it is heavier bow by at least a lb.
How do you get the weight that much heavier on a wood bow?
Mark
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I'm not looking at competition, just wanted to know what sort of changes others do in the design of the bow to suit target shooting more than hunting.
All this time I thought Mark was wanting to build a hunting bow, but when I reread the opening post I saw I was mistaken from the get go.
I believe some members build wood bows for use in barebow comp? do they tune the bows different for target? or tiller the limbs different if the bow is to be used for target? I read that the modern materiels guys make much of positive tiller, making adjustments etc.
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Depends how shoot. Problem with shooting 3 under target with a selfbow is: the bottom limb takes a beating. There are ways to keep that limb lively.
Arvin can speak to what those are. Arvin gave me a stave, prolly not the stave to do a pyramid
With but i did anyway. After much work this is the fastest fourty some pound bow i ever shot 3 under.
The Super Pyramid.
Shawn
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Shawn, this is a bit off topic, but when I watch target archery in you tube, I can hear some bows "twang" on release much different from others. Does hearing the vibration tell a guy much when tuning a bow for competition?
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My hunting bow is 67” long and 47@28 I pull 26 1/2 . It’s killed a wildebeest at 18 yds. 570 grains. If I want to shoot my best selfbow score that’s what I go with. Arvin
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They will be louder for sure 3 under.
I do shoot field targets split 30-80yds .
Shawn~