Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Selfbowman on December 12, 2020, 12:53:49 pm
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Recurve # 4 . Pat suggested that I build a static. My first attempt so don’t expect to much.Thesr static’s about right. 65”ntn
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Ok Pat I’m 1-1/2” mid limb 1-3/4 at fades. Deflex or straight??
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Very nice! Put several inches of reflex in. Your stave will support that.
This is not my design though, it's just a favorite. A bunch of other guys like it too.
You know how to make bows. Just because it's a little different won't pose you much difficulty.
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looks good :)
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with some reflex added... I'm looking forward to your first arrow distance report. (SH)
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So more reflex and no deflex? I know where the deflex would go but where do you want the more reflex? 2-3/4at handle now.
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Pic of back
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No deflex. Just do a uniform reflex along the limb from fade to the base of the static
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I got these limbs straight as possible because I’m testing a new tiller way I’ve been thinking about. Question?? If you had a straight limb off caul like this bow blank at this point is . And you reduce to heavy floor tiller say 10# heavy . As you tiller with a farriers rasp lengthwise on the limbs would it take care of the set by taking the high spots just like the gizmo would show? Who did this 50 years ago and will it work? Arvin
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(-P
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We’ll do that test another day. Ok with some pop cycle sticks and another caul I will put some more reflex in the limb.
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I'd slide it out the caul a bit to get a bit more reflex through the inner limb too.
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Yes you need another form :)
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That’s all the reflex this one is getting for now.
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Handle is not quite deep enough
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Where the heck do you find such straight Osage Arvin?
I can’t wait to see that stave you put in the mail. I’m not sure I know how to make a bow out of something so straight though.
I like the same design Pat describes for myself. I got a pretty short draw though.
I like the shape of your static tips. I like to put about a inch reflex in my limbs.
Bjrogg
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Well Jim Hammer cut a tree about 4 years ago. He got like 90 staves from it. I seen him at OJAM with this wood. He had about 50 with him. Everybody was trying to beat him up on his price??? He wanted I think $85 a stave. I bought 30 that day and gave him $100 a stave. Told him he could make 15% on his money if he would save those staves for me for a year. Not being greedy and offering a decent price on his stave got me first pic and a good friend In the stave business. I think I have bought most of that batch of staves over the last 3 years. But he knows what I want and try’s to provide my needs. I have about 25 left and he’s still looking for another tree like that one. Arvin
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Jim is a GEM... and I know he will never see this thread... LOL He knows wood and makes a great bow himself. I would expect Jim and Arvin to be close friends... :OK
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Everybody was trying to beat him up on his price???
It is the way of people. The other day I saw one of the FG bow component suppliers commenting that he constantly had customers complaining about the quality of the cheaper brand of FG lams, but they were too cheap to buy the higher quality option. They would rather pay less and then complain about what their decision bought them.
Not being greedy and offering a decent price on his stave got me first pic and a good friend In the stave business.
That makes you smarter than a very large chunk of the buying public. You understand good value trumps a low price every time. I'm looking forward to seeing how this recurve turns out.
Mark
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Hey someone post a pic of string knocks for one of these static recurves. Keep in mind just enough mass to hold the static. Arvin
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Just make a normal nock and extend the portion where it comes together on the belly side in a long groove. Get everything bending an lined up and then do your trimming of the mass as the last steps.
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Arvin, your usual nocks would work if you made the loops larger. Pat's idea is likely better, but I have always thought that the nocks on siyahs, which look like your normal nocks, combined with the long string loops, kinda cradle the tips and keep them inline. Just my thoughts...
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I like both styles. Not sure if one or the other offers more stability. That seems more a function of limb and tip alignment.
With the stave he's got it shouldn't be to hard to get things lined up.
For a first time static I think the belly groove style is a bit easier to achieve since it's not really changing to a too unfamiliar shape.
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For now it just has two notch’s in the tips. Don’t have the limbs even enough to pull to 12-14” quite yet. It it’s getting close.
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That's coming along really well
This is how I usually finish my recurves
(https://i.imgur.com/DdGnsO1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1yGOho0.jpg)
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Marc, do you still do the 'bridges' on some? That recurve has beautiful tip work... :OK
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Those look really nice Marc. I make mine very similar to Marc. Just not as pretty
Bjrogg
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I learned long ago the hazards of narrow recurves. Those who can pull it off are better than I am.
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Thanks guys I may get my glass bowyer to help me get these right. I need to show him some bows anyway. Arvin
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I just saw a post with a great picture of old Pope and Young museum static recurves...check out the one on the bottom!
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Looks like a lot of Chet Stevenson work or influenced work there.
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That last one is what I'm talking about :)
Don't bother cutting string grooves/nocks yet. Cut a small wedge about 1/2" long and simply bind it in place as a temp nock. As you progress you will be able to see exactly where to file in your grooves.
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I don't do bridges anymore Bob
I've done really narrow tips on recurves and they are a bit more tricky to get the string to sit properly on the apex of the curve, possibly why I used bridges years ago. I started making shorter curves at one point and found that performance did not suffer at all plus it was much easier to get string alignment.
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I don't do bridges anymore Bob
I've done really narrow tips on recurves and they are a bit more tricky to get the string to sit properly on the apex of the curve, possibly why I used bridges years ago. I started making shorter curves at one point and found that performance did not suffer at all plus it was much easier to get string alignment.
I must be learning. That’s exactly what I found to Marc. I like the shorter recurves. Much easier to align and lighter tip. Still get the same effect. I would even say the performance might be better because of the weight loss. At least better than the ones I use to make.
Bjrogg
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I don't do bridges anymore Bob
I've done really narrow tips on recurves and they are a bit more tricky to get the string to sit properly on the apex of the curve, possibly why I used bridges years ago. I started making shorter curves at one point and found that performance did not suffer at all plus it was much easier to get string alignment.
Exactly what I've learned as well. Long narrow curves suffer from lateral stability issues. Shorter is better here.
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That one on the bottom is long as a well rope. Interesting pic though . Thanks for sharing Bob. I have it to 50@ 25 and no major set yet.i think I will stop at 27 and test the flight against the other recurve. Arvin
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I started making shorter curves at one point
I like the shorter recurves.
Exactly what I've learned as well.
Can any of you define how long a 'shorter' recurve is? I'm not looking for a definitive number, just a rough number that you like to use. A bonus would be what angle you like to bend the recurve to as well.
Mark
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Short would be 3-4 inches , long anything over that really. I admit to liking slightly longer hooks.
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Very nice! Jawge
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Mark if you look at Bobs picture of the museum bows. I would say the fourth one from the bottom has longer than I care for.
The fourth one from the top looks like what I like.
I’m not saying anything wrong with them. Just my preference.
Bjrogg
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What i notice is none of then held any reflex or maybe never had any.
Very nice collection indeed.
Shawn~
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I love that picture... :) First thing I noticed about the bottom bow was the 90° curves, that just need cut off a few inches from the tip, and then the added reflex it had as well... then I saw the bow just above the middle of the pile... the one with tight, short, like 100°+ curves. It's very close to the Brad Merkel/Little Tree 120° curves that could be hung on a limb...even after stringing. Barefoot Tom still has one.
HH~ I'm thinking the bows don't show reflex because they were all made without adding any reflex...?
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I see reflex in a few. There's a bit of every variation in that collection. These bows tended to be used hard in all conditions.
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I see what lioks like reflex but im thinking they working limb sections took brunt of punishment over time and outer third stayed as they were. Love to see bows that were used as as weapons for gathering food. Just love seeing them on the “used rack with blood stained fingerprints still on them”.
I agree with BJ more time into getting limbs to line up, no bridges is a benefit. I still like the bridged profile however.
Thinkin im going to do a take down static. Found some Hedge sisters that should fit for the project.
Shawn~
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Ok shot 245yds at 28”.
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Pic without finish.
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Lost my reflex in the limbs.
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I might have reached my distance with 50# with my tillering capability. Arvin
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I’ve shot the same distance with all three of these bows.
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Now its arrow development to gain some yds.’
HH~
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245 is a tall order to match, but darned if I ain't gonna try.
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that's a great picture of three excellent bows Arvin... looking forward to hearing the results.
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Yep hedge that’s where the balance is for me now. Not saying any of those designs are perfect. But I dislike arrow making and enjoy bow making. But if your going to go far it takes a match of both. Arvin
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I need to research some arrows and start shooting them as far as I can.
I think a little more reflex might have gained you something but then again you probably would have to remove more wood to get to your 50lbs so who knows.
I think reflex helps as long as you can keep it.
Interesting they all shot the same.
Once again enjoyed this thread Arvin.
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I use heat temperately on Osage. I heat-treated a bow several years ago and the bow exploded tillering it out, not fun. The wood was clean although the growth rings were somewhat fine
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Lighter tips is the next thing. I suspect you could remove a good bit of material from those recurves. Narrow them down. Look at how much a Turkish hornbows tip 'steps in' in width at the base of the curve. A standard Turkish bows tip is around 10 - 12mm wide and 17mm thick, that'#s with draw weights of over 100#'s.....tips can be much svelter (???) than you think. :)
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I've got a similar bow in elm that I have just recurved and spliced. Trying to come close to Marc's White Lightening bows. Interesting to see how yours came out. Will try and get some pics up soon, I'm going to push this one :)
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Definitely trim the tips down. The string groove style can't be quite as light as a Turkish style belly taper but you can greatly reduce width. They only need a bit of material on either side of the string groove and you can trap the back severely .
The pictures in Laubin's book of Martin style tips show this very well.
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If you do decide to loose tip mass, weight the bows mass if you can before and after to see how much your performance changes as mass drops. Also, im curious about how those bows compare in mass?
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The tips are narrow now and they all are working. The static is the widest one. It comes in at 1/2. The three on the right are 1/4 to 5/16 “. The bamboo backed Osage is 5/8” wide at the base of the bend. I go much more narrow and I will get unstable.
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Sleek the dark wide pyramid comes in at 27oz . The other two come in at 23oz.
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I use heat temperately on Osage. I heat-treated a bow several years ago and the bow exploded tillering it out, not fun. The wood was clean although the growth rings were somewhat fine
Marc please explain heat temperately to the country boy. I had heat straighten the one bow that is real dark in places and then decided to take a ring off the back and I was a bit thin in those areas. Arvin
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Lighter tips is the next thing. I suspect you could remove a good bit of material from those recurves. Narrow them down. Look at how much a Turkish hornbows tip 'steps in' in width at the base of the curve. A standard Turkish bows tip is around 10 - 12mm wide and 17mm thick, that'#s with draw weights of over 100#'s.....tips can be much svelter (???) than you think. :)
I don’t think a Turkish Flight bow can be compared to a broadhead bow that is not to be draw past the back of the handle. I could be wrong. Do you have a Turkish 50 pounder. If so shoot a 450grain broadhead arrow not drawing past back of bow and report back the shot distance. I’m curious. Arvin
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If you do decide to loose tip mass, weight the bows mass if you can before and after to see how much your performance changes as mass drops. Also, im curious about how those bows compare in mass?
For me I think that would not work the way I tiller bows. But yes that would be interesting. The problem is what’s the starting point. Arvin
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Lighter tips is the next thing. I suspect you could remove a good bit of material from those recurves. Narrow them down. Look at how much a Turkish hornbows tip 'steps in' in width at the base of the curve. A standard Turkish bows tip is around 10 - 12mm wide and 17mm thick, that'#s with draw weights of over 100#'s.....tips can be much svelter (???) than you think. :)
I don’t think a Turkish Flight bow can be compared to a broadhead bow that is not to be draw past the back of the handle. I could be wrong. Do you have a Turkish 50 pounder. If so shoot a 450grain broadhead arrow not drawing past back of bow and report back the shot distance. I’m curious. Arvin
Mike is only talking about how tips can be reduced, not an actual comparison of the rest of the bow.
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Ok thanks
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Lighter tips is the next thing. I suspect you could remove a good bit of material from those recurves. Narrow them down. Look at how much a Turkish hornbows tip 'steps in' in width at the base of the curve. A standard Turkish bows tip is around 10 - 12mm wide and 17mm thick, that'#s with draw weights of over 100#'s.....tips can be much svelter (???) than you think. :)
I don’t think a Turkish Flight bow can be compared to a broadhead bow that is not to be draw past the back of the handle. I could be wrong. Do you have a Turkish 50 pounder. If so shoot a 450grain broadhead arrow not drawing past back of bow and report back the shot distance. I’m curious. Arvin
I didn't say a Flight bow specifically. The Turks made warbows too :) The tips on both were practically the same. Turkish bows shoot both very light flight arrows and heavy hunting weight arrows very well indeed. The heavier arrows of course make the bows more efficent. So broadhead or not makes no difference. Same with overdraws that wouldn't make any difference in how the bow transfers its stored energy.
I have a few around 50# and the performance is right up there :) I haven't tested them in years so can't quote you absolute figures but at least as fast as any selfbows i've made.
I've played about with reducing tips a lot and know you can remove some weight from yours :)