Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Notnok on December 13, 2020, 06:34:07 pm
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Hello,
I’ve recently started work on a merbau board bow. It’s really short at just 38 inches but the problem is it’s not bending enough. I’ve tillered it down to 1cm at the fades and at its thinnest it’s about 1/3cm. I’m worried that it’s going to snap before it gets bendy enough to brace and use. Any advice?
2 photos attached
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Hey, WELCOME to the forum! And a first post of a difficult short bow. I like you already :)
It looks board flat, I dont see evidence of set. Looks good so far. How strong are you wanting to make it, and what draw length? Also how wide is it and do you have pictures of it bending as far as you have pulled it yet?
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I hope Mo-coon-catcher will see this. Its right up his alley!
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For a bow that short the overall thickness will likely be closer to 1/4” or less for sure. And that’s if the draw length is like 17”. Looks like it’s pretty far from that. I doubt the thinnest area is 1/3mm. That would be 3.3mm or just over 1/8” thick. If the whole bow were that thickness it would very easily bend.
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Hey, WELCOME to the forum! And a first post of a difficult short bow. I like you already :)
It looks board flat, I dont see evidence of set. Looks good so far. How strong are you wanting to make it, and what draw length? Also how wide is it and do you have pictures of it bending as far as you have pulled it yet?
27 inches draw length and 30-40lbs draw weight. It seems from pulling on it that it’s going to be much higher than what I intend.
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For a bow that short the overall thickness will likely be closer to 1/4” or less for sure. And that’s if the draw length is like 17”. Looks like it’s pretty far from that. I doubt the thinnest area is 1/3mm. That would be 3.3mm or just over 1/8” thick. If the whole bow were that thickness it would very easily bend.
The thinnest area is just under 1/2cm on reviewing measurements. Fades are just over 1cm.
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One obvious strategy is to tiller from the sides of the limbs. Yew short bows were wide because yew is a lighter wood. Looks like the wood you are using is far more dense, so the limbs will end up narrower. Back with rawhide if you are worried the back cannot handle the narrower width.
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One obvious strategy is to tiller from the sides of the limbs. Yew short bows were wide because yew is a lighter wood. Looks like the wood you are using is far more dense, so the limbs will end up narrower. Back with rawhide if you are worried the back cannot handle the narrower width.
I’m not too worried about the back (for now at least) as it’s got no obvious problems and the grain is straight. I’ve got a splinter that I glued back in, on the belly but that is holding up. I might narrow the width of it.
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Is a 27” draw from a 38” bow with a stiff handle realistic in any design, or any wood? Seems to be asking too much to me.
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Is a 27” draw from a 38” bow with a stiff handle realistic in any design, or any wood? Seems to be asking too much to me.
Might be right. The way I see it is that I have 2 options, remove the riser and let the handle bend, or I just accept a shorter draw length.
The handle might be uncomfortable if I remove the riser though. Which one should I go with? Or any alternatives?
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No way that’s making it to 27” draw. Without the handle overlay, max draw should only be 19”. Any more and it’ll be stacking for sure.
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No way that’s making it to 27” draw. Without the handle overlay, max draw should only be 19”. Any more and it’ll be stacking for sure.
I was being really unrealistic, that would be my full longbow draw length. The distance from slightly below my wrist to the base of my shoulder is about 19". I think I'll go for 19" draw length and 30-40lbs draw weight.
Sounds better?
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Is a 27” draw from a 38” bow with a stiff handle realistic in any design, or any wood? Seems to be asking too much to me.
Looking at shortbows from around the world, it seems that most don't have a riser.
I added one because the video I was loosely following also had one.
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If you remove the riser and it's not comfortable to shoot, you could glue on leather or rawhide. Either can be added in layers and shaped with a rasp or sandpaper.
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If you remove the riser and it's not comfortable to shoot, you could glue on leather or rawhide. Either can be added in layers and shaped with a rasp or sandpaper.
Ah well,
I really liked my riser, but this isn't for decoration. I actually want to be able to shoot it.
I'll rasp off my riser now.
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For a bow that short the overall thickness will likely be closer to 1/4” or less for sure.
+1. My last maple bow was 2" wide at the fades, 65" NTN, 38lb@28" and the limb thickness was 0.385" just out of the fades. No way should OP be at 1cm (0.400") at the fades.
27 inches draw length and 30-40lbs draw weight. It seems from pulling on it that it’s going to be much higher than what I intend.
Even a bendy handled 38" bow isn't going to make 27" of draw without flipped tips to keep the string on.
Mark
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The shortest bow to drawing the I made felt very extreme and had a similar from profile to yours. But was still much longer. It’s was I backed Osage that was 46” between the nocks had flipped tips to keep the string on. And was, if I remember correctly, 2.5” wide at the widest point of t he limbs. I wanted 50# at 27” but I could not get the draw weight to drop so just let the weight be what it wanted. Which was 60# at 27” taking about 1” of set and still retaining just shy of 1” of reflex after shooting. T he thinnest points on the limbs were right about 1/4” thick and the handle area which was narrowed to 1 3/4” was about 5/8” thick. I don’t have the bow anymore so I’m attempting to remember the numbers. It shot well but was difficult to shoot to to being so short and a harsh string pinch. But it was fun. If you want to get a long draw. Get rid of the stuff handle and expect the limbs to get very thin. And it will get very finicky in the tiller as it gets further back in its draw since the limbs are so thin, each scrape is a higher percentage of the limb thickness and changes things drastically.
I hope that helps some.
I kinda want to built another now
Kyle
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Here’s how mine looked at front profile, side unbraced and full draw from brace.
Kyle
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dang Kyle...that bow looks FAST! :OK I have a little edge grain osage bow that looks a lot like the OPs picture... It's about 46" and maybe 1 1/2" wide, 1/4" thick, and has 1 layer of sinew...I have never tried to pull it past 24-25".
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Thanks, it wasn’t t he screamer you’d expect. But it sure isn’t slow either. The best part is being able to sit flat on your butt and still shoot it with a normal amount of Cant.
Kyle
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I’ll add that even if the bow length/draw length ratio is the same, smaller bows will have thinner limbs as the radius of bend is smaller. Might seem obvious but I think it helps to think of thickness in relation to how tight the curve is of the limbs.
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Short bows can hide the majority of the set because the limbs are so thin that the tension side pulls them back into place even though they may be badly damaged.
As for the 38" bow. I would leave it full width, pull the bow to 35# or 40# on the long string and see where it reads. I would not go past about 17" draw with it. Just keep thinning the limbs until you get far enough to brace it. Because the bow is so short I would brace when the bow weighed 40# @ about 15" on the long string. ( Long string should be just long enough to fit on the bow without bending the bow) Hanging down not more than about 4" or so.
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The natives that made that style of bow put the arrow on the right side of the grip, and shot a sharp left cant. The flat handle was made to flip away from the arrow upon release with the way they held the bow with their left hand. I made 2, one was sinew backed Black Locust 40 inches long, and the other was a 50 inch sinew backed Hickory bow. 17 ,and 20 inch draw, and 40,and 45 lbs. . I tried their style of shooting, but couldn't draw the bow far enough, or hit very well their way. I shoot them with a sharp left hand cant with three fingers under with the arrow on the left side of the grip. The Wintu, Karok,and Yurok, and other west coast natives made their bows more narrow over all compared to the Hupa tribe which is what your bow resembles.
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I meant right hand cant.