Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Digital Caveman on February 11, 2021, 05:39:16 pm
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I am trying to dig up information about the Penobscot Bow, particularly primary sources. Any ideas?
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Halfeye has done some research on it. I believe he has made some double bows as well.
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There is a pretty good article in the “bow woods” volume 3. This is a really good compilation of articles worth owning if you don’t already.
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All kinds of myths about the Penobscot, and Mic Mac bows. Invented in 1900. The original was made of American Horn beam . Type in Penobscot ,and Mic Mac bow on your web search Utube. You will see different takes on those bows by different bow makers. Straight limbs to recurve limbs. Different lengths etc. I have made 6. I have 2 left. They shoot no better than a well made self bow. They are a conversation piece though, because not many people have seen the double bow, and they can be adjusted for poundage. Mark has the nicest example I have seen, but here are some pics of the two I have.
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more pics
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I meant to say many people have not seen the double bow.
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The first bow is all Hickory. 59 inches long, and pulls 30 to 45 lbs. The second is 64 inches long, and pulls 25 to 40 lbs. Front limb is Ash, and the short limb is White Oak. I used what wood I had at the time.I tried making the back limb 1/3 ,1/2, 3/4 the length of the front limb to get better performance with no success. Unique, but not practical for hunting, but fun to shoot target with.. The 2 limbs are attached with dowel pins ,glue ,and thread wrapping. Some guys that have made them claim they relax some at full draw. I haven't found that to be true. Mine stack at full draw. Saved these 2 for my grandson's as a keeps sake.
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I am trying to dig up information about the Penobscot Bow, particularly primary sources. Any ideas?
Historians have pretty much written it off as a modern invention by a white man that posed as a native in order to gather attention and make money off suckers. That being said, it has the potential to make an effective bow, albeit with more effort, multiples of layers of duplicated tillering efforts, and the back cable manufacture.
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I am trying to dig up information about the Penobscot Bow, particularly primary sources. Any ideas?
Historians have pretty much written it off as a modern invention by a white man that posed as a native in order to gather attention and make money off suckers. That being said, it has the potential to make an effective bow, albeit with more effort, multiples of layers of duplicated tillering efforts, and the back cable manufacture.
I wouldn't be surprised. It doesn't seem to warrant the extra work, especially if someone is just looking to bring home meat. I remember reading a bit about modern takes on the bow in some PA back issues, but I'm still curious. I'm kind of interested because my university is less than 10 minutes from the Penobscot Nation.
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I remember reading,, that they favor heavy arrows, but I am just remembering something I read, it may not be true,, I cant remember reading any real info on shooting 10 gpp,,or anything like that,,
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These two shoot a little over Tim baker's 100 plus poundage. at 10 gpp arrow.
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I have a book on the indigenous people of north America. These people are of the Algonquin tribe, and this book shows a Penobscot Indian at full draw with a pipe in his mouth, and shows their bow as a simple D shaped design, and looks to be shot with a pinch finger grip on the arrow. Their is a picture of a young Penobscot girl holding a double bow with the arrow, but would have to be after 1900, and not what was used by this tribe.
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Trad,
Research it in the library and make contact with the Archeaology and Anthropology Depts. Being that close to the Penobscot nation, there should be some one with expertise.
Hawkdancer
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I wonder where the examples shown in the Encyclopedia vol 2(?) came from?
Seton mentions his meeting with "Chief Big Thunder" at a Sportsman show in NY where he saw this style of bow for the first time. He estimated it pulling about 20 pounds.
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TBH I built a penobscot hickory bow.. I found no use for the design .. the mass of the bow vs performance is not worth it to me.. not to mention a bugger to till to get the smaller bow to align perfect with main bow..twisting the cables to the smaller bow didn't increase poundage enough for the hassle and weight in hand.. the benefits certainly didn't add up to me .. A single limb bow is far superior IMO... I guess they are cool to look at I agree, but I never took mine to the woods and rarely even shoot it... might just sell it cause tit takes up space haha...gut
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i wonder how to make it get better performance or at least make use of everything thats happening. you probably want the smaller bow on the front of the bow to snap back first and then the actual bow. because if the bow snaps back before the smaller bow, there was no point in having the smaller bow up front. the arrows gone before the smaller bow could do anything significant.
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I can definitely see a useful purpose behind them if you are limited on quality woods. The larger bow gets you the draw length and the short bow gives you the power that adds up to a bow made from high quality materials to start with. So if you have a long piece of low quality materials but can make it draw to 28” bow at a low weight that’s not powerful enough but you have a 3 foot piece of a clean strong piece, you can heavily reflex it to make it cooperate better and get lots of power. This will bring up the draw weight and arrow speed.
I made one a few years ago in the mikmak style with the string bridge going from the tip of the main bow over grooves in the heavily reflexes back bow and tying off to the handle. My initial backer bow was lightly reflexes. So when the backer bows tips pull behind the back of the handle the load transfers to the main bows limbs. If there is ANY difference in the power load when this happens it will dump all the load to the weaker side. Making a sudden heavy flex in the weak limb. So to counter this you bend the backer bow into a u shape where the tips are facing straight out,or nearly so, before brace. This way the tips are always infront of the handle and you don’t get the load dump.
The big downside is a more complicated assembly and tiller. There is lots of extra mass you have to lug around and more strings and bulk to catch on things.
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Oh and the main bow pulled 25# at 27” and was and absolute dog on its own, but add on the backer bow brought it up to 50 pounds with good early string tension and speeds in the 170s.
Kyle
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That is a very nice looking bow. I have never seen one with cables from the center to the tips of the small bow. I see how tillering that must have been a challenge.
I can definitely see a useful purpose behind them if you are limited on quality woods.
That is originally why I thought the bow developed. (It took me a while to discover that there really is good bow wood in Maine :))
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thank you M Catcher,, that is some of the best info I have rea on that type bow,,,, was your 170 with 10 gpp,,
and do you think if you sinew backed the front bow it could improve perfromance,,
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i was thinking, if the front bow gets pressed up against the back of the bow when drawn, can this add more stress to the actual bow or make change the way the tiller looks?
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At the time the arrows I had were 625gr and 450gr and it barely shot any faster with the lighter arrows. But that speed was with the heavier arrows. I’d imagine a sinew backing wouldn’t hurt anything and may speed things up by allowing the front bow to be a little shorter, which would mean using a a stiffer spring with a longer lever (the string bridge) to potentially pull the main bow limbs even faster. So there’s potential there to make a high performer, but I’m not convinced it’s worth the effort if you already have good bow woods. It’s kinda tempting to make another with a sinew backed backer bow and the main bow out of a lighter mass wood.
Kyle
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That was another theory why the double bow was developed because of weak wood in their area. Which I question. So what weak woods would we use to make the double bow out of if we had no strong wood in our area? Pine etc, and has anyone ever made one here to see the end results?
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im still just trying to make the best straight bow, I like the idea of trying one,,
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Go for it . You enjoy making bows ,so I think you would enjoy the process, and maybe the end result.
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Wow no difference in speed going from a 450 to 625 gr arrow. That little back recurved bow must work wonders for that design. Might have to try that.