Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Fractured on April 27, 2021, 07:22:45 pm
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Hello everyone,
I'm slowly working on reducing this stave to rough form and proceeding to floor tillering. The limbs are just barely starting to bend at this point. The stave is elm 63 inched ttt, slightly crowned, has a general deflex in one limb and a delex/reflex in the other limb. The less straight limb has a slight twist to it as well. I am conflicted as to whether is should attempt to even out the limb profile with heat bending and which direction I should go or whether is should just leave it as is. I don't have a ton of bows under my belt at this point.
Plan for this one is 62 inches ntn, stiff 4 inch handle with no shelf, 2 inch fades, 1.5 inches at the fades and out to half limb and tapering last half of limb to 1/2 inch at tips.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51143163363_6b5b5fa8d8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVm5EF)Elm 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVm5EF) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51144051060_a0d05f48c4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVqCxN)Elm 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVqCxN) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51142269187_8cb290026c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kVguRR)Elm 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2kVguRR) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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Just cut away everything that doesn't look like a bow. :D
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I would probably try an straighten it out a bit. Definitely don’t have to but if you haven’t made many bows it’ll make the tillering process a bit easier if the limbs are even. I would start with the right limb and get a mild gentle reflex along the limb and then match the other limb to it.
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I've only made a few elm bows but was completely impressed with it as a bow wood. I would take it to a good floor tiller stage or even first low brace then clamp it to a caul at the handle and using a heat gun(I like to use cooking oil at this point), work out each limb making corrections. In the twisted areas use small wood wedges with a clamp or 2 to correct the twist. I usually clamp every 6" to 8", depending on the limb. Be sure to pad the clamps or they will leave an indentation. Once the bow is fully clamped I go over it once more with the heat gun and thoroughly heat the limbs then let it sit overnight before removing the clamps.
Elm reacts well to heat tempering. I do this without oil and heat to a nice chocolate brown color, clamping it to the same caul as above. I like to add about 3" to 4" of reflex at correction and tempering time. After tempering I give the bow at least a few days to rehydrate, depending on the R/H of your area at the time.
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As Ryan said :)
Do not go mad with any reflex you add. 1 inch is plenty.
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Good advice said for you about profiling.Nice looking piece of elm.You should get 45#'s for sure at that width at 28".It all depends on what type of elm it is.Denser elm draw weight will be higher.Many different types of elm out there.
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Thanks a ton for the input guys! I’m making slow progress with corrections and it’s going well so far. Working on building a caul for reflex next. I’ll post an update soon. Thanks again.
Fractured
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ditto everything Pat said to a tee... gut
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waiting on a couple to dry
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I had some kind of elm tree fall down in a friends yard... TONS of straight nice looking staves.......but this elm is not a good bow wood ..... it was mostly dark heartwood.... and it was really really weak... super sad cause I have so many great staves from it.... not sure what kind of elm ???
I’ve heard it’s awesome bow wood though! I just got a bad tree I guess!
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once you've split elm, even in firewood length you understand why it's good bow wood. Spliting in bow stave lenth is a combination of splitting and cutting. You can't just split it
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I had some kind of elm tree fall down in a friends yard... TONS of straight nice looking staves.......but this elm is not a good bow wood ..... it was mostly dark heartwood.... and it was really really weak... super sad cause I have so many great staves from it.... not sure what kind of elm ???
I’ve heard it’s awesome bow wood though! I just got a bad tree I guess!
Sounds like red elm, not much better than firewood in my opinion.
Great advice given so far. PatB is spot on in my opinion.
Patrick
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once you've split elm, even in firewood length you understand why it's good bow wood. Spliting in bow stave lenth is a combination of splitting and cutting. You can't just split it
I love American elm saplings for making bows, honestly it is probably my favorite. That said, I don’t fool with any elm much over 4” in diameter because of this exact reason. If I was in need of bow wood and a large log is all I had available, I’d definitely torture myself with it though lol
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I have been slowly working on this stave with a heat gun and feel like I have made good progress with corrections. The alignment has improved and I was able to get most of the deflex out of the right limb near the fade. Both limbs ended up with about 2 inches of reflex (if I am measuring it correctly). Should i move on to reducing to final dimensions and tillering? Looking for input on how things are looking.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51166370781_efee6c284a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kXp2qz)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kXp2qz) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51167468645_9e17b186f1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kXuDMg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kXuDMg) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
Thanks for all the help so far.
Fractured
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Great progress, keep posting pics as you go for those of us that can't read! ;D
Nice looking bowyers bench, by the way!
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Been a while since my last post. Life has gotten the best of me and I've been intentionally taking my time on this one and have been working on my workshop a bit. Would love some tiller advice and input on how to proceed from here.
As before.. 62 inches ntn, stiff 4 inch handle with no shelf, 2 inch fades, 1.5 inches at the fades and out to half limb and tapering last half of limb to 1/2 inch at tips.
Since my last post i worked slowly to floor tiller and a bit beyond and then lightly toasted the limbs with about 2 inches of reflex. I haven't picked a top vs bottom limb at this point. Tips are still quite thick/wide. In the "draw" picture on the tree its pulling at about 40 pounds. Shooting for as close to 50# at 28 inches. Since toasting i have not lost any reflex. Left limb looks a little stiff to me.
Would greatly appreciate any input/advice.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51354232388_b2a705cae9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2meZS8N)Elm Tiller (https://flic.kr/p/2meZS8N) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51354006041_cff5515efc_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/gp/189421599@N08/v78mtq)Elm Tiller (https://www.flickr.com/gp/189421599@N08/v78mtq) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51354775729_1183aab398_b.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/gp/189421599@N08/5sf8WX)Untitled (https://www.flickr.com/gp/189421599@N08/5sf8WX) by Matthew Chodat (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189421599@N08/), on Flickr
Thanks all,
Fractured
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I’m very new to making bows but here is what I’m seeing in your pictures:
Left limb looks to have a bit less reflex than right limb.
Left limb does look a bit stiffer so it may be a bit x2 stiffer since it has less reflex.
Right limb may have a slight hinge about half way down the limb. Maybe this is why it looks weaker?
BP
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At this point it would be good to narrow your outer limbs to where you intend them to be. Also remove the 'extra' thickness you have at the tips.
Yes watch that spot in the middle of the right limb. Probably need to remove some from the fade out to that point but first thing is to get the width profile finished.
Is your string touching the belly? Ideally you should have to bend the bow a little to get the string on, so that it sits taught to the belly.
Also get it pulling to 50# as soon as possible or else you risk coming in under weight.
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I’m very new to making bows but here is what I’m seeing in your pictures:
Left limb looks to have a bit less reflex than right limb.
Left limb does look a bit stiffer so it may be a bit x2 stiffer since it has less reflex.
Right limb may have a slight hinge about half way down the limb. Maybe this is why it looks weaker?
BP
The right limb had more natural reflex with a lot of it coming right where that weakish spot is on the limb. Took a lot to get that spot moving. I will be careful of that spot. Thanks.
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At this point it would be good to narrow your outer limbs to where you intend them to be. Also remove the 'extra' thickness you have at the tips.
Yes watch that spot in the middle of the right limb. Probably need to remove some from the fade out to that point but first thing is to get the width profile finished.
Is your string touching the belly? Ideally you should have to bend the bow a little to get the string on, so that it sits taught to the belly.
Also get it pulling to 50# as soon as possible or else you risk coming in under weight.
Thanks. Wasn’t sure when exactly I should work on thinning and narrowing the tips.