Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Don W on June 03, 2021, 06:19:51 pm
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I acquired several chunks of osage through some horse trading. A pretty rare site around these parts (the osage, not the horses). I hope it's ok if I pick your brains for each one as I garner the moxie to tackle them.
The smaller chunk should be the easiest.
This piece is 71" long, just under 1 1/2" wide and 5/8"-9/16" (9/16" on one end)
I'd like to wind up with a 50#-55# flat bow if possible
I have some hickory staves and I thought I could slice a slice off one without sacrificing the whole stave for a back, but wanted your opinion. The only possible boards I have would be white oak. (i'd buy some bamboo but only if it's going to make an improvement worthy of a "first kiss" moment)
How thick for the backing? 1/8"? 3/16"?
The black line shows the grain. I snapped a center line and measure both ways to get an even board.
Thoughts? Hopes? Dreams?
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1/8" will do
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Yes anywhere from 1/8" to 3/16ths would be perfect.
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I am not a fan off hickory backing having several of them fail in the past. if it was my board I would bamboo back it. I have made 2 or 3 edge grain bamboo backed osage bows, they came out just fine and I didn't have any failures.
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2nd eric.. boo back it...gut
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I backed an Osage board like that with linen and it was a good shooter. About 60# @ 28” and the bow was about 64-65 inches long. Gave it away several years ago.
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I am not a fan off hickory backing having several of them fail in the past. if it was my board I would bamboo back it. I have made 2 or 3 edge grain bamboo backed osage bows, they came out just fine and I didn't have any failures.
Eh? A hickory backing from a straight board will allow you to fret the osage....The only way straight grained hickory is going to break is if it hadn't been dried properly. When I geta new board of hickory I tend to make a super quick, heavy pyramid and then pull thesucker until 'something happens'. Most good hickory will let mebottom out my tiller tree at around 40"draw!
Don't worry about hckory! However do make sure you select a good board!
Bamboo is way more temprimental than good hickory.
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I have made some bows with hickory stave splits. Probably would not have had to back them, but I did with linen , but my draw length is 25 inches, and the bows were from 35 to 45lbs at 60 to 62 inches long. Good Hickory is tough stuff.
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I've had excellent luck with hickory backed osage over the years, for me, much better results than with boo.
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Thanks everyone. Maybe when I'm a little more confident in my tillering I'll spring for some bamboo. I took one of the hickory stave that was a bit oversized and ripped some hickory strips. There set off to dry.
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Bamboo is my preference, and I have two big logs worth of straight grained quartersawn smooth bark hickory that I cut and seasoned.
Get that slat down to a uniform thickness end to end. 1/2" can make a 70# bow. Taper it from dip area to tips if you can, then glue up into reflex or d/r shape. Yummy.
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I have made about 50 bamboo backed bows, 3 or 4 raised a splinter on the back and several failed completely at the node when I use Frank's bamboo. I started cutting my own bamboo and have some very good Mandrake, probably why I like it so much, no failures in the last 20 years.
I suspect commercial bamboo quality is all over the place and the reason some have problems with it.
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Might I suggest you consider one of the easiest backings out there....rawhide.
If that were my osage board, I would use that line you drew as my center line, then define the sides of the bow accordingly. I would add a very slight crown, no more than about a 1/16" because I like the aesthetics. Before I even started going for floor tiller, I would radius the corners on the back and lay down my rawhide using Titebond (matters not which one, but III has some benefit of being a moisture barrier). For giggles and camo, I might even use a combination of aniline dies (black, green, yellow, red, blue) to paint a random pattern before laying on the rawhide....thin rawhide from a deer or pronghorn antelope will gently mute the brightness of the aniline dye and leave a nice camouflage effect.
Don't go the route of the rawhide dog chew toys for backing, one never knows how thick it is or how it was treated before it got to making a chew. For that matter, I wouldn't feed it to a dog for the same danged reason! If you need help sourcing rawhide strips for the backing, drop me a note. I have some ready to go.
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Might I suggest you consider one of the easiest backings out there....rawhide.
If that were my osage board, I would use that line you drew as my center line, then define the sides of the bow accordingly. I would add a very slight crown, no more than about a 1/16" because I like the aesthetics. Before I even started going for floor tiller, I would radius the corners on the back and lay down my rawhide using Titebond (matters not which one, but III has some benefit of being a moisture barrier). For giggles and camo, I might even use a combination of aniline dies (black, green, yellow, red, blue) to paint a random pattern before laying on the rawhide....thin rawhide from a deer or pronghorn antelope will gently mute the brightness of the aniline dye and leave a nice camouflage effect.
Don't go the route of the rawhide dog chew toys for backing, one never knows how thick it is or how it was treated before it got to making a chew. For that matter, I wouldn't feed it to a dog for the same danged reason! If you need help sourcing rawhide strips for the backing, drop me a note. I have some ready to go.
At 5/8" thick I'd have about a 30# now. I'd prefer something heavier
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Thanks everyone. Maybe when I'm a little more confident in my tillering I'll spring for some bamboo. I took one of the hickory stave that was a bit oversized and ripped some hickory strips. There set off to dry.
I dunno, if you do a bendy handle 2X your draw length, 5/8" thick should give you a pretty decent draw weight. Ooh, and that would be a great candidate for sinew backing, too.
Whatever you choose, keep posting pics of your progress. We'll all be interested in how things go!
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One thing you will need to watch for if you glue a handle on. Your bow will have a slight amount of flex in the center when you are done because of it's thickness, your handles might have some tendency to pop off. If you insert a power lam over the handle between your osage and hickory it will take the flex out. 1/8" in the center 4" tapering to a feather edge, about 10" long total.
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I was thinking of adding a power lam, but I'm starting to like the "no hàndle" design. I'm still thinking 🤔
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I added a 1/8" hickory backing.
first bonehead mistake, I forgot the power lam, so it's bending through the handle. I'm ok with that. I'm chalking it up to old age.
I got it almost tillered and a bad spot on one end of the hickory started splitting.
So I ground the hickory back to the handle from the bad end and added a long overlap splice at the handle with a new backing.
I flipped the tips (just because)
Right now I'm tillered to 49ish # at 26". I'm shooting for 50-53ish at 28"
should i do anything special for the splice? I don't have any real sinew, but I do have rawhide.
It has a very slight bit of hand shock. What might be the cause? It's not bad and it's not unpleasant to shoot, although I'm drawing 26" now.
I will build up the handle with leather but suggestions and/or examples appreciated.
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Osage-Board-1-6-21-b-flip-tip.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Osage-Board-1-6-21-c-hickory-handle-overlap.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Osage-Board-1-6-21-d-full-draw.jpg)
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I sure like that bow Don!
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Ooh! I think I like it! It sorta mimics the heartwood/sapwood of yew. Imagine how striking the contrast will become as the osage ages and darkens. Yeah, definitely think I like it!
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making progress
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Osage-Board-1-6-21-handle-1.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Osage-Board-1-6-21-handle-2.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Osage-Board-1-6-21-handle-3.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Osage-Board-1-6-21-handle-4.jpg)
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This one has turned out to be a bit of a problem child. After about 300-350 arrows through it wouldn’t you know, another split in the Hickory back. So once again I ground the hickory back to the handle from the bad end and added a long overlap splice at the handle with a new backing. But this time I used a piece of 1/8″ osage. It was the best 1/8″ piece I had.
I also decided to add some recurves. I used dry heat and made a very slight recurve on each end.
So I decided to add a rawhide backing to the hickory backing. I figured this would hide the two different color backings and add some insurance for further breakage. Only some minor tillering needed after these changes.
stained with Fiebing’s Leather Dye
Final results (I hope, I've still only got about 200 arrows through her!!)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Osage-Board-1-6-21-100.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Osage-Board-1-6-21-101.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Osage-Board-1-6-21-102.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Osage-Board-1-6-21-103.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Osage-Board-1-6-21-104-full-draw.jpg)
(https://www.diy.timetestedtools.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Osage-Board-1-6-21-105-full-draw.jpg :()
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Don I try to keep sinew on hand at all times. Works great for those kind of staves. Your bow turned out nice, and I hope it holds up for you. Your fades should be as Badger said above gradual, and feathered into the limb for a couple of inches ,or better.
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Don't go the route of the rawhide dog chew toys for backing, one never knows how thick it is or how it was treated before it got to making a chew. For that matter, I wouldn't feed it to a dog for the same danged reason! If you need help sourcing rawhide strips for the backing, drop me a note. I have some ready to go.
Strange but true. One of my dogs liked to carefully chew on the extra large knotted end rawhide bones only enough to soften them with saliva then carefully untie the knots and spread the softened rawhide into perfectly flat sheets.