Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: tom sawyer on October 02, 2006, 12:39:30 am
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Thimo gave me the bug to try one of these things. Its a composite with gemsbok horn belly, bamboo core, sinew backing, black walnut handle and siyahs.
First I made myself a 36" bamboo slat, about 3/16" thick. Then I made the black walnut siyahs, about 8" long and at a modest 30 degree angle. I spliced them to the core with a 4" v-splice using resorcinol. Then I glued a walnut reverse handle on the core and put a little backset in it while I was at it. This is a typical construction.
I procured a gemsbok horn and unfortunately when I was flattnening the halves it split on me. So I cut it in fourths, giving me skinny strips when processed. I got the idea to cut the strips in two and spliced them on the working limb only. This way I could use only two of the four strips I got from that horn. You only need horn on the working limbs so I had enough. I mostly prepped the horn strips with the belt sander, and glued them on the limbs with resorcinol.
That's where I'm at now. The horn strip glueup is drying tonight, tomorrow I'll be ready to sinew. I'll reverse string it a bit to get the sinew going in the right direction. I plan to make sinew strips like the Korean bowyers make, and apply them to the back. I'll probably also round the edges of the back of the core, to give it a less square appearance. I'm going to go heavy on the sinew, and comb it fine before I use it. I already have a bunch processed.
Here's some pics.
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/62tomsawyer/Asiatic%20Composite%20Bow/
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Thanks for posting it. I realy enjoyed it. Looking forward to the rest. Justin
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Thimo gave me the bug to try one of these things. Its a composite with gemsbok horn belly, bamboo core, sinew backing, black walnut handle and siyahs.
First I made myself a 36" bamboo slat, about 3/16" thick. Then I made the black walnut siyahs, about 8" long and at a modest 30 degree angle. I spliced them to the core with a 4" v-splice using resorcinol. Then I glued a walnut reverse handle on the core and put a little backset in it while I was at it. This is a typical construction.
I procured a gemsbok horn and unfortunately when I was flattnening the halves it split on me. So I cut it in fourths, giving me skinny strips when processed. I got the idea to cut the strips in two and spliced them on the working limb only. This way I could use only two of the four strips I got from that horn. You only need horn on the working limbs so I had enough. I mostly prepped the horn strips with the belt sander, and glued them on the limbs with resorcinol.
That's where I'm at now. The horn strip glueup is drying tonight, tomorrow I'll be ready to sinew. I'll reverse string it a bit to get the sinew going in the right direction. I plan to make sinew strips like the Korean bowyers make, and apply them to the back. I'll probably also round the edges of the back of the core, to give it a less square appearance. I'm going to go heavy on the sinew, and comb it fine before I use it. I already have a bunch processed.
Here's some pics.
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/62tomsawyer/Asiatic%20Composite%20Bow/
excellent ;D i cant wait to see the finished bow :) :) :)
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I don't know if this orientation of horn will work, its a gamble. I do have the strength of resorcinol glue going for me, I'll go with hide glue on my next attempt at one of these.
I got the clamps off this morning and cleaned everything up on the belt sander. I posted one additional pic of the horn strips on the belly, nothing specatular but just documenting the process. Next up, sinew. Then the hard part, waiting for that to dry/cure.
I also have to make something for the belly side of the handle, since I didn't run horn over it. I may use wood for that area. It definitely needs to be reinforced as it is skinnier thn the limbs and right now it appear that it'll be the weakest part of the bow. A nice stiff piece of wood, or maybe some cow horn that I have.
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Good idea using the horn the way you did TS. I don’t think it was a gamble at all.
If you don’t mind me asking, why did you choose to glue the horn first and then sinew?
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seems that the horn should cover the splice at the siyah, no ??
only having read about building such a bow it seems that would make sense.
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Glen I wish I had enough length to do that. But I made the siyah with an arch (top center) from the beginning of the splice, so it is going to be pretty stiff in that glue line. My thinking is that I'll only get bend up to the siyah and not into it. I'm going to wrap the spot pretty thick with sinew to try and bolster things, but I may glue a little something on the belly side of the splice first. I have the really bumpy parts of both of these horn "quarters", I could always make them flat and use them there. I cut them off the pieces originally because there won't be much thickness by the time I flatten them. Might be just the thing to glue on the v-splices.
As for why I glued the horn on first, I have several reasons.
1. I think that is the way the tradtitional composite bowyers do it. Gotta think they've got it figured out. Correct me if I'm wrong on this being the order of events in a typcial Asiatic construction.
2. Its easier to glue strips on a flat (width and length) surface. I see the glue lines here as being a potential weak link, especially with the use of horn strips. I was told this can be done though.
3. I felt like by gluing the horn on the straight core, I was "splitting the difference" in terms of stress on back vs/ belly. If I glued the horn on a pre-reflexed core, or one with induced reflex from sinew, I would be putting even more stress on the horn when I draw the bow. Again, my horn is somewhat thin by horn bow standards and the splice thing doesn't help its strength I'm sure. I'm not going to try for too much refelx in my sinew job either. I'm going with rather mild specs for my first try.
4. In gluing horn first, and then sinewing, I can round the sides with sinew and shape the bow nicely. I'll probably round the edge of the core, and then run a thin layer of sinew over the sides and to the edge of the horn.
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Thanks. Having never built an Asiatic bow before I had no clue.
I've talked to a few guys that make plains style horn bows and they sinew first, then add the horn. Thats why I asked.
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You might ask them why they do it that way. I guess its no huge deal either way. Probably get more reflex without the horn. But I'm going to backstring this thing to get a bit more than I otherwise would.
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The reason is twofold from what I understand. Using a stave of wood for the core they can adjust tiller after the sinew is applied. Also, they can judge weight with the early tiller before they glue the horn on.
It looks good so far. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
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Should be interesting, hope she turns out to be a shooter for ya. I tried a turkish bow awhile back, I may have to try again.
VB
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How'd that bow come out? Was it horn belly, sinew back?
I'm worried about the bamboo core on mine. And I noticed that one of the two siyahs, isn't aligned perfectly with the core. Its not off center much, but it will probably be a challenge to keep the bow from twisting. I don't know if I glued the siyah that way, or maybe the horn pulled the one limb slightly to the side.
No progress on the bow tonight.
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Sorted sinew by length today, and combed the ends of each bundle with a dog comb. That should make it somewhat smoother. I will probably not sinew tonight, I have to prep some more horn for the v-splice area, and a piece of wood for the belly side of the handle. Then I'll be ready to sinew.
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Tom I really like what you are doing with this. Really great stuff.
One thing about these bows I enjoy is that is teaches patience. With a capital P. For someone like me that is very good training. Tonight I am working on a Sythian style bow and I had done alot of ADD short-cutting. So I just got done stripping off all the sinew (it was still wet beneath the wrapping) and the boo, set it all aside and will begin again latter when everyones in bed. I really want to begin making some beauties.
Keep up the good work. Its great seeing someone else interested in this.
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Yeah Thimo, I'm wanting to speed through this but there are many details to attend to. This is going to be great practice before I make a real bow using only traditional materials.
Tonight, all I could do was to put some thin walnut strips under the v-splice to reinforce them, and I made a handle piece by heat bending a strip of osage. I glued it on and there was a slight gap that was irregularly shaped, so I shoved a wedge of osage in there to fill the space.
Once the glue is dry, I'll cut off the excess wood and then I'm ready to sinew. Finally.
I have a couple more pics of the handle piece and splice covers, in the photobucket link above. Nothing real interesting, just another step.
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"I glued it on and there was a slight gap that was irregularly shaped, so I shoved a wedge of osage in there to fill the space."
Tom here I thought I was the only one doing stuff like that. LOL. I figured everybody else got everything machine-perfect prior to glue. :D
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I should've, in fact this was the second piece I cut and it was still a little short.
I have seen xrays of artifact bows and they used little wedges of bone to fill in small gaps at the handle. So we're just being authentic.
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I unclamped and cut off the overhangs, things looked OK until I noticed that about an inch on one end of the handle piece didn't glue properly. I must not have gotten the boo core scored (with a hacksaw blade) very well at that end. So I stuffed some 2-ton epoxy in there and reclamped. I'm concerned about reverse-stringing this for sinewing, this piece may well pop off at that point. I guess if it comes unglued I'll just reprep and reglue. It should be fine when I actually use the bow since it will be pinched in between the horn strips.
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The epoxy didn't work worth a darn, the one side of the handle lam is still loose. I tried to pop the whole thing off by bending in reverse, but the rest of the glue joint is holding well. So I reverse-strung the bow a bit and proceeded with my sinewing job last night.
I had presorted my sinew into a couple of lengths, putting each bundle between the pages of a magazine (not PA, that would have ruined it). I had also combed the last couple of inches of both ends of these bundles, with a dog flea comb (a larger tined one). This got rid of a lot of tangles in the ends (where they are most prevalent). Both these tasks really help you get a decent looking sinew job.
I made Knox gelatin hide glue, I used 3 packets in a cup of water but had to add another half cup to make it the consistency I wanted. Too thick and it gets real sloppy. Kept it on a cheap hot plate on low. I didn't have to add any water, since the sinew was prewetted with water and a little of this carried over into the glue each time. I sized the heck out of the back of the bow, I think this is important in getting a good bond. I used to think it would be better to leave it kinda dry but everything i read says to coat everything in several coats of thin glue so it sinks in as much as possible, and I definitely see the logic in that.
I first prewet each bundle in water, squeegeeing it out repeatedly until it felt limp and you could see the strands separate and be parallel under the water. If I felt lumps I would keep squeegeeing and dipping, that would get the tangles mostly undone. Then I dipped the bundle in glue and squeegeed, did this a few times to get it soaked in good. At this stage you could really see the strands nicely parallel when it was under the glue. Like well-combed hair, only thicker stuff of course.
I did a final squeegee and this gave me a flat, reasonably uniform strip of sinew to lay on the bow. I started down both edges and then laid a strip in the middle. I smoothed things with my fingers, I wished I'd had a piece of antler like Hamm uses in TBB because at times the sinew would want tmo stick to my fingers a bit. Smoothing is definitely something you can do too much of, because when you pet it one way you run into the next bundle and it might pull up the ends of those fibers and then you have a bit of a mess to contend with. So I smoothed as best I could and went on.
I did one thick layer of around 3/16" wet, this will shrink down considerably of course. I ran the sinew up onto the siyahs, and went over the handle with a thick layer as well. I did not go over the sides, decided that might just add weight but no performance or safety. And I didn't wrap any ends yet, I'll let this dry down some and then wrap the limb/handle areas as well as the limb/siyah areas (where the horn ends) to keep everything from pulling apart. Might use sinew, but am considering thread and glue as an alternative. That would look nice, be plenty strong and use less sinew.
Anyway, there are a couple of pics of the sinew job in all its wet/sticky/messy glory, at the link I have above. Not much to see really. The sinew isn't as brown as that one pic makes it look, that is just a lighting thing. And disregard the mess on the workbench, I need to doze the whole shop again soon.
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Really neat! Maybe ready for Bow of the Month -Backed Bows for November?
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Hard telling, but that is probably a reasonable estimate. My experience with sinew, is that it takes a few weeks to get reasonably dry and then it still changes for months afterwards. You can shoot it in the interim, but I learned my lesson and don't try and chase a perfect tiller on sinewed bows because they look different every day regardless. The good thing about them, is that they perfrom well regardless of what they look like on a given day.
I will need to wrap several areas with string or sinew, to keep things from delaminatiing. I'm probably going to cover this bow in silk if it survives. I only give it a 50/50 chance of becoming a bow.
Another thing I read on the ATARN site, is that it is possible to get sinew TOO dry. It is supposedly more likely to fai if this happens. I always tried to get mine bone dry through rapid drying, could explain some of my failures in the past. I always just attributed it to bad prep of glueing surfaces.
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Looking good Lennie! Its great fun watching you and Thimo dive into these, because I know I don't have the time yet to try one, but soon enough will.
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Looking good Tom. I know exactly what you mean about trying to "unglue" stuff. I had to saw a handle off yesterday and that wasn't even epoxy.
By the way your workshop is starting to look like mine. :o
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Rich its really not much of a stretch from doing a backed bow. Just a belly lam that happens to be horn, and a sinew job. The siyahs really aren't a big deal. The "fun" part is yet to come, getting the bow lined up properly. I'll make tepliks for that.
This one is practice before I do one the old fashioned way, with hide glue and following a more aggressive and authentic pattern.
Thimo our workshops have that "lived in" look eh? My dog hung out with me last night, she chewed up six chunks of 2x4 and ate a big piece of leather while I was busy sinewing. We both had a good time.
The sinew is drying slowly, the edges are clear but the center is still white. No sign of cracks though, I'm not going to speed anything up with the drying box until the sinew is clear. Then maybe I'll cook it awhile.
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Time for an update. There are a few new pics on the photobucket site, I think they are the first three. There's an unbraced side profile, and a couple of the bow being pulled with a long string.
The sinew is reasonably dry now. I added another layer to the handle/fades and inner limb area, it seemed like the first layer was heavier at midlimb and I sure don't want to stress the handle area any more than necessary. I got my handle spacer piece fixed as well, I ended up cutting the loose part off (1"), repreping the surfaces and then reglued it with a shim to take up the space from the kerf. It seems to be good and solid now. I cut some nocks into the siyahs, I am either going to reinforce those with horn or make my string with a little leather strip at the nocks. Maybe both. Also thinking about reinforcing the siyahs themselves, lashing something like bone plates on either side like the ancient bows had. The walnut just kind of scares me, then again the whole bow scares me!
First I attempted to make tepeliks and tried to tie those to the bow's limbs. It worked OK but I couldn't really get the limbs cinched down all the way with my rope loops. I have to research how that is done, a little more thoroughly. I bagged that for the moment, and used a long string to see if the thing was going to stay together when bent. So far so good. It is going to be one heavy beast though, I worry about it staying together becuase of that. I did just a little scraping on the horn, with not much effect. I think the bottom line is, my core was a little too thick at a good 1/4", and I'm going to have to live with the higher poundage. I might try narrowing the limbs a bit, but the width gives them stability and I'm scared that narrowing will make them want to lean and that will be the end of the bow.
I'm also less than happy about the angle on the siyahs, I didn't make them real radical but I was hoping they would show about perpendicular at brace. They seem to be bending a little past that though, hard to tell with a long string I guess. I tried to string it using a nylon cord for a string, but the string stretched too much. I'll have to try making a linen string tonight. But I'm maybe going hunting after work, and there's Monday night football too.
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That's a perty dog gone aggressive projek Lennie. Looks like you got it by the short hairs too. Darn thing bends good. Need to stock up on greens afore the killin' frost comes, so you can draw the darn thing. The grain pattern in that walnut has got me spooked boy. Seems like you'd want the grain running along the lenght. But then what do I know.
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The grain runs parallel in the joint area. I thought that was most important. The rest of it is stiff so my thought was that it would hold up. The angle isn't that aggressive either. But like I said, I'm contemplating bolstering the siyahs with thin side plates of some sort, lashed on with sinew. Might have to get a rack of spare ribs just to get some sideplates. Wonder if sauce will mess up sinew? That'd be better for strength, high protein.
I think they normally heatbend the siyahs, or glue them together from pieces that have the grain running lengthwise, instead of just cutting them out. Hey its a first attempt, I never figured it'd get this far. I keep waiting for it to blow, gotta find the ol' football helmet.
Now I gotta get started on a Fu Manchu to get in the spirit of things.
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Dang Lennie...that looks great so far! Looks like a fun one to do. I've got some real nice Mulberry...might just have to give one of those a go soon.
Great job bud! hope the horn holds for ya.
Sparky
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Thanks Sparky. They used mulberry a lot for siyahs. I'm sure it would make a good core as well, being fairly light.
Heres the update for this evening. Its mostly good news.
I managed to make a string that didn't break when I tried to string this bow. It is 14 strands of dacron, simply doubled over on each end and tied with an overhand knot to form the loops. I strung the bow using a stringer, that seemed to work pretty well. I needed the leverage, this thing is a bit of a beast.
I have posted a few more pics in the link above, one is the bow braced, one is the bow's side profile just after unstringing, and one is the bow partially drawn on a tiller stick. I don't have a tiller tree rigged up and nobody else was home to photograph as I pulled the bow.
As you can see I have one limb that is somewhat stronger than the other. I am seeking suggestions on how to even these up. I've scraped a bit on the horn on the stiff limb. I may also add another thin layer of sinew on the weaker limb. Although this remedy will increase the poundage a bit I suppose, not really what I am wanting. You can see in the just-unstrung pic, that the weaker limb is showing a bit more set than the strong limb. It seems fairly even, which is a good sign. I was worried that more of it was showing up on the outer end of the horn, where I butted a piece of wood to it to bolster the inner part of the siyah.
I measured the poundage on this bow with my bow scale. I managed to pull it all the way to 28" (back of handle) and measured close to 80lb. This was with the scale hanging from a nail, and me pulling down on the handle with all my might/weight. I shot a few arrows out of it but I can't pull it to full draw. Shot very strong and no hand shock but that is expected when pulling a bow only 20" or so. Hey Thimo, road trip on over here and pull this sucker to full draw will ya?
I did see a few small cracks in one area of horn on the stronger limb. It is in the smaller of the two pieces spliced along that limb. It doesn't look very bad but I will keep and eye on it. The cracks run parallel to the limb, not across, so it doesn't look like compression fracture. Might just be the horn drying or something, that is the piece of horn from the outer third of the length and some of it was solid.
The weaker of the two limbs, needs to be wrapped out by the end of the horn. I got the piece of belly wood just outside the horn, just a little thin on that side. I want to shore it up, although I need to decide about adding sinew to the back before I do my wrap.
If you have read all of this boring narrative, congratulations you are officially bored stiff.
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Lennie,
I've heard about guys scraping the horn to reduce weight. I guess you could always reduce limb width if ya have it to give. Have you sanded your sinew in prep for the leather covering. If your going to do that maybe you could give that a try as well. Maybe a little more sanding on the stronger limb. I am watching your progress with intrest.
Sparky
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All good suggestions.
I'm not too sure that scraping horn will have much of an effect, and I need to keep a certain thickness to protect the core. Same for thinning sinew. As far as reducing limb width, I could maybe do a little of that. To get from 75-80lb, down to 65 (upper end of my comfort zone) I'd need to reduce width by 19%. I think the limbs are 1.25" wide, so I'd need to bring them down to 1" wide. I might get away with that without losing my lateral stability. I may also taper it in from full width at the handle and siyahs, so it bends a little harder at midlimb. That'll take some of the pressure off the ends of the horn that are butted up against wood spacers.
I also need to do a little work on my nocks ASAP. I cut them straight in, but the string rides on the inner side and very close to the top at brace. I'm going to cut them at more of an angle so the string sllides down in there better. Probably line that area of the nock with some horn too, this walnut is light enough that it might get cut into or split. I'll probably make another string with slightly longer loops, this one's loops rub on the sides of the siyahs. I put duct tape on the area of the lops in contact with the nocks. I bet the bowyers-of-old would have done this if they'd had access to duct tape. They used leather, which is just duct tape with no stickum.
As for finishing touches, I was thinking of covering it in silk and wrapping some areas with thread. I have to deal with the tiller and weight problems first of course. Possibly painting some Chinese symbols on it, something like "Yankee Go Home" or "Communism Rocks". But nobody will know the difference. Actually its more of a Magyar (Czech) bow though, maybe something that says "I'd Rather Be Drinking A Good Pislner". Pilsen is a town in the Czech Republic, after all.
Then its on to the next one, I still have the other two quarters of the gemsbok horn for another attempt and they are the better pieces. I figured I'd practice on the second rate material first. This time, I'll know to make the core more like 3/16" and maybe tapered a bit. Although, you see a lot of these bows and they bend hard early, so I don't know that a tapered core is the right thing to do. Will have to research that one a bit more.
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More pics on the photobucket website, braced, full draw and just unbraced.
OK I finished watching the Korean hornbow video and learned a lot from the part where he tillered his bows. Basically I had not tillered mine, so it was good that it had the poundage it did. I bevelled the edges of the horn and thinned it a bit towards the middle, also brought down the width of the limbs just a bit. I made the thinner towards the handle, since you ewant more bend near the handle on these bows. I sanded the siyahs and cut the nocks in so there was more of a ledge for the string to ride in.
When I strung the bow I knew it had lost some poundage. I was able to string it using the step-through method. I measured the poundage and found it to be in the 60's, much more comfortable. Also, the tiller was much closer to where I wanted it, the limbs were more even and bending reasonably well. I still need to thin the midlimb on the upper limb a bit, it is bending a bit too hard at the handle in my opinion. I took it out and shot a few arrows out of it. This is a really nice bow to shoot. When first unstrung it showed equal set in each limb, another indication that it is properly balanced.
Now for the bad news. There is always bad news isn't there. I inspected the bow and found that the limb that was bending hard near the handle, had a little of the sinew lifting right in the beginning of the handle. Also, there was a small crack in the spacer wood on one edge, probably from the compression stress of getting mashed by the horn. I heated both areas and got some 2-ton epoxy in both cracks, and it is curing now.
Why did this happen? I think I was just being in too big of a hurry. I should have wrapped those areas with sinew as soon as I saw that the bow had a good tiller and poundage. Instead, I had to take it out and shoot it. Ah well, I can't help myself. Also, I will thin the horn a bit more at midlimb and take a little of the stress off that area.
In any case, I am getting close to finishing this sucker in what I feel is record time. I have to wrap the fades with either sinew or thread and glue, I need to cover the bow with silk and do some decorative thread wraps. I need to put a finish on the siyahs. And then I'm going to call it a bow.
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Awesome bow Lennie! You quickly came up the learning curve with this one. I bet your next one will be even better. Did you see any problems with the horn splicing you were worried about? Which video did you purchase for the construction of the bow?
Great job bud!
Sparky
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I got Duvernay's Korean Bow video on DVD from Horsefeathersranch. I only received it a few days ago, I'd already had this thing going just based on stuff I read on the ATARN site. The Korean hornbow is a different sort of animal, long and skinny and VERY flexible over nearly the entire bow. Lots of the techniques can be applied to other types of Asiatics and even backed longbows. It was worth the money.
The parallel splices have held up really well. One has a little more of a gap than the other but there's been no sign of anything coming loose. Im happy with that part of the project. Although, if I'd been more careful when I was flattening the gemsbok horn, I might not have had to split them in quarters in the first place. I'd have had enough horn to run over the handle in that case. That would have been better than the cut and paste approach I took, with the wooden handle piece on the belly side. But this way, I have enough horn for two of these bows. Its a cheap way to go, I got the gemsbok horn for $30.
I'm hopeful that with the glue, and a good solid wrap job, I'll have a shooter right out of the gate.
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Lennie, There are plenty of examples of composite bows made with multiple strips of horn.
I'm curious as to why you didn't reflex the bow more. According to Tim, the bow should only shoot as well as say a sinewed osage of the same profile. Unless of course you draw it much further than you normally draw to maximize the sinew /horn potential.
The drying time seemed a bit short. Have you beeen hanging out with Thimo lately ? :) Pat
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Lookin' good, TS. Glad you've made such phenomenal progress before the Series started-you lucky dog. I'm glad for you. Jawge
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Jawge, I just work on the bow until the game comes on. Its a matter of time budgeting.
Pat there are composite designs that don't have that much reflex. Honestly though, this design is more from my head than from any particular artifact. I was thinking I'd get more reflex out of the sinew, the horn on the belly must have made it too stiff. In any case, the bow has a good 4" of reflex and that is probably enough for my maiden voyage. I've heard of horn being spliced, mostly I think it is butt-splicing to get more length and not parallel splicing like I did. Most horn is wide enough, but not always as long as we'd like. As for performance, it'll be what it is and I'm not worried about setting any records. Just having it hold together is my goal. It should do alright because the horn is thin now and the sinew layer isn't terribly thick either. I chose a bamboo core and the walnut siyahs because these materials are lightweight. Drying time on the sinew was adequate but I'm sure it'll continue to gain weight for a few months, might even show some more reflex now that the horn is thinned and the limbs are not so stiff. In all, my guess is that this bow will slightly outperform a same-length sinewed osage bow with similar reflex, just becuase the limb mass is going to be slightly less. And I'll look cool!
Update:
Today I wrapped both the handle/fades and the inner siyah areas where the horn terminates, with sinew. There's a pic on the link above. Now for more waiting. When its dry, I'll cover the back with silk and put some finish on the siyahs.
Mims questioned my choice to cut out my siyahs rather than bending them. IU've thought this over a bit, and examined the bow. I kind of like how the grain is running on the walnut. I cut the siyahs out of a board rather than bending wood. This has the grain running parallel where the siyah is spliced to the core, and at an angle of maybe 30 degrees in the direction of the outer siyah. This offest means that the string is not pushing straight into the grain at the nock. I've had nocks split in the past, and I think the angle of the grain will help to prevent this. The fact that walnut is also only semi-ring-porous is good too, theres no spring ring to be the weak link that splits when the string is pushing/cutting into the nock. I'll put a bit of leather in the nock just in case, but I don't know that it needs it.
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Lennie, I believe most Indo-persian bows were made with about five strips of horn on the belly of the limbs. You can look at the Khotan bow on ATARN as another example of a multi-strip bow. Pat
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I'll definitely check it out. I wouldn't necessarily want to have more joints to try and get mated, than necessary. But its nice to be abel to use these skinny strips after paying $30 for the horn.
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Looks fantastic Lennie. Hope the little damaged area doesn't spoil it. Still, for a first project I'd say it turned out great.
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I'm hoping for the best, got 2-ton epoxy in there pretty good and a nice thick sinew wrap. I'll weaken the midlimb area a bit and hopefully that'll take some of the pressure off the fade area.
I got a tip from Adam Karpowicz, to reduce mass in my siyahs. If I cut the nocks an inch closer, I'd lose the better part of an inch of reflex. But I'd gain from having less mass and a little more poundage to play with in tillering. I'm not that close to being at a 90 degree styring angle at my draw, although if I were to draw to my ear I might just about get there. Anyway, I'm considering this option while the sinew wrap dries. The walnut siyahs aren't that heavy but they are somewhat exaggerated compared to most authentic bow designs (I think).
In fact, does anybody know if this bow looks like any of the standard ethnic designs? So I can call it that? The siyahs are too long for Turkish, nothing like a Korean, maybe a Chinese? The Chinese bows have long siyahs but at more of an angle, with pads for the string to lie on the bow at the knee of the siyah. I think this bow is most like a Magyar (Hungarian) in terms of siyah length and angle of braced bow. Might lack a bit of reflex but otherwise it seems to be the best fit. This is how I brew beer too, throw stuff together and then classify it after I taste it.
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Lennie, Mini Magyar is the classification for this one. Pat
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True, I'm an inch or two short in siyahs, working limb and handle area. And I don't have the reflex of the genuine bows, more like the profile of the reconstructions of Fabian Gyula (sp?). Probably for the best, if I had much more reflex I'd likely be having more trouble with twisting of the limbs, as one of my siyahs isn't lined up quite as well as it should be. I'll pay more attention to that on my next one.
Mini-Mag seems like a good name, if the bow survives the next week or so.
The sinew wraps are drying out quickly, the RH is low right now. I've been fondling the bow nightly, can't wait to fine-tune the tiller and finish it up.
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I've been watching from the start and this has been a fascinating project, I always wondered how these bows were constructed. thats quite an accomplishment you've made.
Can't wait to see the finished product.
VB
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I couldn't stand it, I had to string the bow this morning. The tiller looked very even (1/8" positive), the poundage is at 60lb@27", I shot it a few times and it is performing well.
I have to do some prettying of the bow now. A little sanding and polishing on the horn, gluing some silk on the back, sanding the siyahs and finishing them. Some sort of handle wrap. Then it'll be done.
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Update. Been busy bowhunting and duckhunting these last few weeks, plenty of ducks but no deer in the freezer. Well, there is one but its a roadkill doe I cut up. Yes I am a redneck. My wife actually saw it laying on the road and called me. She likes deer jerky. Yes she is a redneck too.
I did apply silk over the sinew on the composite bow, and painted that black. It looks OK, I still want to decorate it more than this. And I need to wrap the handle/fades with cord or something, possibly put a leather handle wrap over that. When this will get done, I am not sure.
I am writing though, to tell you that the bow has already been blooded. MY friend came over last night to put a leather handle on an osage bow I helped him make for his dad. After we did that, and made a new string for it, we went outside to shoot a few arrows. I took the composite bow along. It was dark except for the porch light but I spied a couple of rabbits in the back yard. I happened to have a broadhead arrow in my quiver so I shot at one of the rabbits and killed it. About a fifteen yard shot, nothng special but I was proud and having a witness was cool too. I had rabbits in my garden all summer, raiding my green beans. So this was an act of revenge.
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I was wondering what happend to you. I enjoyed your project. I've been wanting to do a kinda bare-bones composite. Your build-along made it sound possible. Will you be posting pictures soon?
J. D. Duff
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I'll take a couple more tonight. The tiller is looking alright and the bow seems fairly stable. I might get around to wrapping the handle this weekend. Then again, I'm taking my 50-cal muzzleloader out for the gun opener tomorrow, and we're getting a north wind that might push some new ducks down our way so Sunday will probably be spent in the marsh.
Life is good!
I think I have less than $40 worth of materials in this bow. $15 for horn, $15 for sinew, a $5 bamboo slat (enough for two), some resorcinol (a few dollars' worth) and some small pieces of hardwood for handle and siyahs.
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Managed to get a buck on Sunday with the 50cal Hawken rifle, wish I'd had my bow instead because it was a 20 yard broadside shot while he was standing still. Thats my excuse for not posting more photos till now.
The last three pics added are of the silk backing after it was painted black, the handle wrap which is duck decoy cord, and another full-draw photo. I wrapped the handle just like I would serve a string, that worked really well and it looks very nice. I may yet add a leather handle, and I have to paint something on the limbs and put some tung oil on the siyahs. But its getting closer to being officially done. I'm thinking I'll get it finished by December.
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/62tomsawyer/Asiatic%20Composite%20Bow/
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I like the tiller Lennie...looks good. Real fine job on that one. Looks like you've been on a diet... ::)
Roger
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Sorry about the partial nudity, it was late when I remembered to take the photos.
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Just messin' with ya Lennie. Say...did you use epoxy for the wood/horn bond. If so why did you choose it over Urac? I have a little project going... ;D
R
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I used resorcinol on this bow, URAC would work too. I've used them both for backed bows and consider them to be equivalent. Both have gap-filling properties thanks to wood-flour in the catalyst, they are strong and flexible, and don't shrink as they set up. I was worried about strength since I was piecing together the horn belly, thats why I didn't go authentic with hide glue for this first run. I actually managed a pretty good fit between the horn pieces and the core so I wasn't looking at having to fill large gaps.
You already knew about the glues, I was throwing that out for the others.
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Thanks bud! I will give the Urac a shot. I've never done a bow with horn. This should be fun.
R
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ttt