Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: akila on May 12, 2008, 04:16:08 pm

Title: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 12, 2008, 04:16:08 pm
Hy guys....i started my first warr bow....the wood is ash,  is 190 cm long, 36mm wide in the handle, at mid limb its 35mm, at the tips its 18mm for the moment...it has temporary noks, i just made  some little groves  in the wood,the bow its 27 mm thick in the handle....so i just wanted to ask you for some help tillering this bow....in this picture,  the bow is with a long string, and im pulling aboute 9", and its 88lbs at 9".....so what do you think aboute the tiller plz?? i think tha the left limb need some more scraping arrounde the midle area, but i wanted to ask for your opinion...how should i proceed from now on with this bow??? im trying to reach 32" full draw and 120#....thks in advance..
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 12, 2008, 04:24:54 pm
I cant see a picture of your bow ?

My experience of ash has been that 120lbs is on the very limit of what it can handle and your bow is not as long as mine so you will have to be very careful tillering it
although, having said that I am using kiln dried wood so your ash may be better than what I have used ?

have you chased a ring on the bow ?
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 12, 2008, 04:52:07 pm
Ups.....o my god... sorry..i forgot to put the picture...... :-\
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x212/Akila_07/P5120168.jpg)
Here is the picture......o man im sorry ...i feel  so stupid... ;D
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 12, 2008, 05:05:26 pm

its looks to me good in the centre area
1/3 in from each tip could do with bending more

BTW - Have you seen my "booklet" on my experiences with making ash bows?
can be downloaded from www.alanesq.com  (Back street bowyer)

Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: Yeomanbowman on May 12, 2008, 05:43:57 pm
As Alan says the centre is working but the rest is working not much at all.  Don't pull it any further until you sort this out or else you will end up with loads of set/frets where it's at it's worse, the middle of the bow.  Try and get a slightly flattened arc shape and what is the density of the ash?
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: Tom_Brone on May 12, 2008, 06:16:18 pm
you will need to get the right limb working more in the middle (because you will get chrysals at the fades, or a hinge), and the whole bow bending more towards the tips.

Tom
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 12, 2008, 07:39:09 pm
HI...thks alot for your help....this is exaclty what i wass thincking...trying to  get the right limb bending a little more in the middle to avoid a hinge at the fades, and to get to hall limb  benidng a little more thru the tips...the bow wass bending just 9 "...i did not pull the bow further then this...ant the wood is pretty dense....0,9 ..tomorow i will put new pictures...
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 13, 2008, 04:16:08 pm
Hy guys...here is the bow after a little work that i done today.....i dont know what happents, but it seam that its realy tricky to tiller this bow.... :-\....usuly i tiller a bow in a fiew hours, but with this one its a little dificult to tiller.....i have notice a fiew points where i need to do a little more scraping but i realy need your opinion to....thks a lot.
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x212/Akila_07/P5130167.jpg)
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 13, 2008, 06:23:26 pm
I have drawn an arc on to your picture as I find doing this can help a lot on deciding how the tiller is going and what needs adjusting etc.

I think you just need to get it bending where the green blobs are and you will then be getting pretty close :-)



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Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 13, 2008, 06:38:51 pm
HI and thks for your help....right now the bow wass pulled just aboute 14"....im thinking that iff i solve this problems, maybe i can strung the bow and tiller from here on...for the moment the bow is still a warr bow ;D...the scale shows me 99lbs at 13" with long string....so im still on the heavy business...i hope i can tiller this bow right....
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 13, 2008, 07:03:57 pm

So far, so good :-)

Make sure you dont end up rushing though, this is something I always really struggle to avoid (especially when I seem to be spending ages trying to get it right)
also, keep exercising the bow a lot as you go, otherwise I find the ash will suddenly lose a lot of weight when you least expect it

Ash is really prone to compression fractures on the belly (especially with high poundage) so keep a close eye out for these
if they are shallow then its not a total disaster (my 120lb bow has loads of them but still going strong) but when I was trying for 130lb I was getting them half way through the thickness of the bow :-(
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 14, 2008, 04:13:50 pm
hello.....today i wass working again on my warr bow, and i strung the bow today, and i manage to pull him to the full draw.....this means 34", the bow show 110# at 34"...the bow wass strung only 5"...it wass realy dificult to strung the bow....i had someone to help me to strung  the bow ...so i think that if i had strung the bow let say 7"...maybe the bow it will be at full draw a little stronger thenn 110lbs...but aniway its ok....i just have to put some horn to the noks, and to make him  a string and its done...left limb looks pretty good to me, but the right limb its not realy perfect....the  wood has 2 small knots  to the tips area, and this is why i could not make that area bending a little more, i wass afraid to take more wood from the area , becose of those 2 small knots....aniway this wass a learning process so i think that next one it will be better.... here is a picture at full draw..the only problem is that the bow has taken a lot of set....after i unstrung the bow the set is aboute 4", and after some time the set its aboute 2"....i think that the wood wass still a little green...what do you think i should do aboute that.??...i wass thinking maybe trying to recurve the tips...i have seen some warr bows that have the tips recurve, in some old paintings from medieval periode....
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x212/Akila_07/P5140169.jpg)
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 14, 2008, 05:40:59 pm
Excellent job there :-)

BTW - 2" of set is fine on this type of bow, mine has 3"
I find my ash bows very difficult to string, I have never really figured out why this is ? ?
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 14, 2008, 06:00:58 pm
You realy think so...??? im looking  for an hour at that  right limb and im so angry becose i dont like it so  much....im trying to decide what to do....but in the same time i know that there is not much to do....iff i start heat treat the belly and trying to reflex  the hall bow, i know that the set eventualy will come back....all i can do is trying to  flip the tips a little....aniway i think i will put the bow in the hot box for a fiew days to remove the moisture....and i  will install horn noks....this will be  funn....i never done this and i hope i will make it right... :-\...thks a lot for your help....
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 14, 2008, 06:05:16 pm

You can spend hours worrying if the tiller is perfect but I always figure that once you have the bow to full draw then the bow is finished
any adjusting after that may improve it a bit you you risk destroying the bow which would be a disaster after you have had it at full draw

I would stop worrying about it and get using it :-)
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: sagitarius boemoru on May 16, 2008, 06:48:02 am
Grab a heat gun and adjust the stiffness of weak spots by heat treating the belly. Works like a charm with ash.


J.
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 16, 2008, 09:40:17 am

I  did  a lot of experimenting with heat treating ash when I was trying to make a 130lb bow
I found that it quickly dried the wood which changed  its properties significantly but when the moisture content returned to normal (which takes weeks) it returned to how it was before
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: sagitarius boemoru on May 16, 2008, 06:36:52 pm
Its not about drying. Its about hardening weaker spots (or whole belly)  and that can be done. I have made 120# ash bow with aonly about 1´´ net set.
It has to become sticky and change collour to something like hazelnuts. Then the properties of wood change pernamently as the stuff inside of cells cooks.


Jaro
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: alanesq on May 16, 2008, 07:16:58 pm

Interesting - I will have to have another try at this some time

At the time I was hoping it would help stop my bows chrysaling (when I was trying to get past 120lbs) but finally decided it wouldnt help with this
in the end I removed the belly and glued some oak on, this allowed me to get to 165lbs no problem (although this was way heavier than I wanted)
 
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: sagitarius boemoru on May 16, 2008, 07:23:33 pm
Once it starts to chrysalls theres nothing to stop it Alan. I had little of succes of remedy chrysals with heat treating. Deep heat treating - scorch does improve strenght of the belly wood, but the elasticity suffers. This is little of problem with ash, which is too spongy or overelastic for these bows. Also I have found that for ash to perform really well it has to be as dry as hickory.

Jaro
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: akila on May 16, 2008, 08:45:44 pm
Hy guys and thks for all your replays....i wass busy today and jut now i opend my computer....today i done something real stupid.....a beginner mistake... :-\....i could not take my mind from that weack spot on that right limb....and i thaught i give it a try with the heat gun, and i did something realy realy stupid....i tried to refelx a little that weack spot and the belly of the bow crak on me.....after a fiew seconds a craks apear on the belly and it gows realy deep, so  the bow its history....i will try to make it a target bow....i removed the damaged rings on the belly, and i just have 15mm thicknes to the  limb and the midlle of the bow is still the same...35mm wide and 27 thick...so i think i can make a target bow or something....im so angry at my self....and i always give advises to my friends.." never try to refelx a limb that has taken set, becose the limb could crak"...and i just did that today..... :-\......i dont know what wass in my mind...i think i wass a little upsot becose i could not make a good tiller to this bow....one limb wass ok...only 2" set....but that right limb wass 4" set....so this is it...aniway i wanna thk. you for your help and i will start another one real soon....im happy  that i had no chrisals on this bow.....but now  the bow its history.... :-\...
Title: Re: Ash warr bow....
Post by: eduardbilanin on May 25, 2008, 01:43:35 am
 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(