Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Jakesnyder on October 26, 2021, 09:55:01 pm
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How easy is it to make hide glue?
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fairly easy
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Sorry... how do you make it?
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Yes quite easy :)
Take a big pan of water (with a lid) and add your scraps. Hides, sinew, fish air bladders etc...Slowly raise the temperature to no more than 65 deg celcius. This is key do not let your water get over this temperature. You will still get glue but it won't be as strong. Too high a temperature will break down the collagen instead of 'releasing' it. Keep it at this temp for 8 hours.
Then strain the mix to remove any lumps/pieces left. Keep these as you can do a second cooking.
Now gradually reduce the mixture to a thicker consistancy. Lid off the pan - still not going over 65 degs.
Once it has got thicker you need some baking trays and parchement paper to line them.
Pour your glue over the trays until it is about 1/4" thick.
Let it cool and gel.
Once gelled you can cut it into small cubes.
Now take a fan and blow air over your glue cubes until they have dried and are completely hard all the way through.
You can skip the drying process if you are willing to freeze your gelled glue. This way is nice as you simply unfreeze , warm up and it is ready to go. The dried cubes need soaking in water until they go soft before heating them.
Good hide glue is amazing stuff. :)
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Yes quite easy :)
Take a big pan of water (with a lid) and add your scraps. Hides, sinew, fish air bladders etc...Slowly raise the temperature to no more than 65 deg celcius. This is key do not let your water get over this temperature. You will still get glue but it won't be as strong. Too high a temperature will break down the collagen instead of 'releasing' it. Keep it at this temp for 8 hours.
Then strain the mix to remove any lumps/pieces left. Keep these as you can do a second cooking.
Now gradually reduce the mixture to a thicker consistancy. Lid off the pan - still not going over 65 degs.
Once it has got thicker you need some baking trays and parchement paper to line them.
Pour your glue over the trays until it is about 1/4" thick.
Let it cool and gel.
Once gelled you can cut it into small cubes.
Now take a fan and blow air over your glue cubes until they have dried and are completely hard all the way through.
You can skip the drying process if you are willing to freeze your gelled glue. This way is nice as you simply unfreeze , warm up and it is ready to go. The dried cubes need soaking in water until they go soft before heating them.
Good hide glue is amazing stuff. :)
+1 and you can pulverize your cut up dried cubes into a finer grain so it will dizzolve quicker when you want to rehydtate it.It is some extremely hard stuff.It can ruin conventional coffee grinders so beware.I use a mortar and pestal.
There's a build-a-long posted.http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,67763.0.html
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I cheat and use knox jello. ;D
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I have that too.It's cheap.
First pourings from the right temperature produce better glue IMO.
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I make is by walking down the baking section isle in Walmart and buying Knox Gelatin which is hide glue disguised as a product for baking.
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Yes quite easy :)
Take a big pan of water (with a lid) and add your scraps. Hides, sinew, fish air bladders etc...Slowly raise the temperature to no more than 65 deg celcius. This is key do not let your water get over this temperature. You will still get glue but it won't be as strong. Too high a temperature will break down the collagen instead of 'releasing' it. Keep it at this temp for 8 hours.
Then strain the mix to remove any lumps/pieces left. Keep these as you can do a second cooking.
Now gradually reduce the mixture to a thicker consistancy. Lid off the pan - still not going over 65 degs.
Once it has got thicker you need some baking trays and parchement paper to line them.
Pour your glue over the trays until it is about 1/4" thick.
Let it cool and gel.
Once gelled you can cut it into small cubes.
Now take a fan and blow air over your glue cubes until they have dried and are completely hard all the way through.
You can skip the drying process if you are willing to freeze your gelled glue. This way is nice as you simply unfreeze , warm up and it is ready to go. The dried cubes need soaking in water until they go soft before heating them.
Good hide glue is amazing stuff. :)
How much water do you use? And will any hide do?
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You want to cover your scraps and add the same again.
Intially you just want to be able to leave the pieces in for a long time without having to add more water. Eventually it will be dissolved off so it doesn't really matter as long as you have enough.
Gelatine is not bad glue but it gels very quickly leaving you with less 'open' time. Homemade glue is superior and once you have you basic method down you can use experiment with different starting materials eg. yellow croaker air bladder glue is incredible stuff with a low gelling temp (long open time). Hide glue gels quicker than sinew glue. Hide glue is better for a dry climate, croaker glue handles humidity better etc etc.
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Some more detailed insight about making your own hide & sinew glue.Before heating reducing the pieces to as small as possible increases surface area.More glue can be gotten from the first pouring then.I reduce my pieces to less than an inch square.The sinew it does'nt matter much if it's waste from stripping sinew.
One side benefit from brain tanning is that I keep as much of my 1/4" wide hide thinning scrapings and hide powder from sanding hides for making glue as well.
As far as gell time when applying sinew.Controlling your enviornment helps extend gell time too.I do most of my sinewing during the winter by the wood stove or in the same room as the wood stove.Keeping it to 80 degrees F. or more will extend the gell time beyond 10 minutes or more depending how warm it is in the room.Leaving you time to adjust the layment of your sinew for a more perfect job.
Some comb the sinew before applying and that works good too.If you can get it to look good immediately after sinewing it will look darn near perfect once dried.
Once your hide glue gells.It's set.You move it and you've lost your bond.Unless it is warmed up again with a hair dryer slowly.
One reason I think why some sinew jobs I've seen done by others get a raised sinew splinter when flexing their newly made bow.
Sidenote.....Is this the same Jakesnyder I sent a hickory stave to?Maybe it was Justinsnyder.
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It was me Ed! It got burned up in the fire though.. grrrr
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Gelatine is not bad glue but it gels very quickly leaving you with less 'open' time.
That it does. Sometimes that is a good thing, sometimes not so good... Are there any tricks people can share to help extend the gel time on the Knox gelatin?
Mark
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No!
Only way is to heat your shop....
That's why the other glues are worth having.
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If you are struggling in the cold...croaker air bladder glue is amazing. It also resist humidity way better than hide glue. Hide glue was traditionally used in very dry climates. Sinew glue can take a little more humidity and croaker is top of the list for humid climates.
I had to take a horn strip off once (glued with croaker glue) it had only been in place 5 minutes and was incredibly difficult to remove, I had to use heat to remove it. Well worth the effort to make, it is night and day compared to gelatine.
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Gelatine is not bad glue but it gels very quickly leaving you with less 'open' time.
That it does. Sometimes that is a good thing, sometimes not so good... Are there any tricks people can share to help extend the gell time on the Knox gelatin?
Mark
I've mixed some of my croaker glue with hide and sinew glue before to extend gell time.While making croaker glue it does take longer to gell to cut up into cubes too.Set it in a cooler enviornment and that'll speed up the gelling.Say 45 degrees F. then cut it up.
I've always been able to manipulate my enviornment to extend the gell time.
It really is some very good glue and can take more moisture than what people realize.
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Where do you get fish glue?
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Where do you get fish glue?
I was going to ask the same about the croaker bladders. I live a long ways from the Atlantic coast and shipping animal parts around is often frowned upon by the gestapo of both our countries. I'm up for trying to make some but the raw materials are somewhat scarce on the Canadian prairies.
On a different note, I had a PM that suggested heating/reducing the Knox gelatin for an hour or more would help slow down its gel time and give a better 'pot life'. Has anyone tried this?
Mark
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I have used a lot of Knox, I have my bundles of sinew sorted and separated, my glue in small pot floating in hot water in a crock pot, I have never been hampered with a quick set-up time. I have noticed no set up time difference from when I used granulated brown hide glue.
Mix your glue thinner and it will set up slower.
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Dried croaker bladders for making fish glue is available from a seller on Etsy.
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Where do you get fish glue?
I was going to ask the same about the croaker bladders. I live a long ways from the Atlantic coast and shipping animal parts around is often frowned upon by the gestapo of both our countries. I'm up for trying to make some but the raw materials are somewhat scarce on the Canadian prairies.
On a different note, I had a PM that suggested heating/reducing the Knox gelatin for an hour or more would help slow down its gel time and give a better 'pot life'. Has anyone tried this?
Mark
I've never heard of that myself and I seriously doubt it would extend gell time.If anything it would weaken the glue in the end if it got overheated too high and turn a darker color.
I forget exactly where I got my croaker bladders.It was on line.
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I have used a lot of Knox, I have my bundles of sinew sorted and separated, my glue in small pot floating in hot water in a crock pot, I have never been hampered with a quick set-up time. I have noticed no set up time difference from when I used granulated brown hide glue.
Mix your glue thinner and it will set up slower.
Beware of making the glue too thin.Making the glue too thin will starve your sinew.Drying cracks can easily occur doing it that way.Find a happy medium with consistency.I've used many different types of hide/sinew/and croaker glue on a lot of different types of bows with mild reflex to extreme reflex.
After sinewing I place the bow in a cooler place [65 F. or less] for at least a couple of days.It helps to set everything in place drying the outside surface good.Then bring it out to a warmer enviornment.Maybe with a little light air movement too.
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Dried croaker bladders for making fish glue is available from a seller on Etsy.
Yeh, but £110.00 for 500g seems a bit pricey to me, especially as its classed as a waste product
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Stuck - A big tub of EA40 is £200+. That amount of money is worth it once you relaize how good the glue made from them is (it is especially good in our climate, as in nothing else comes close when it is cool).
Knox and hide glue are essentially the same thing.....funny that they act the same....
Heating it for a long time will seriously weaken it.
Watering it down will weaken it and lead to other problems.
Adding croaker (or similar) slow gelling glue is the only way to reduce gelling time.
Quite funny when people try to pick holes :) I only comment on stuff I know inside out....pick away :) It is water off a ducks back :)
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As said before.Making your enviornment warmer around you while using hide glue will extend the gell time.That's an experienced fact.