Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: NOMADIC PIRATE on May 14, 2008, 06:47:57 am
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Gotta admit that I'm severely guilty of trying really hard to get my bows to finish with some retained reflex, I just love the look of a bow that goes back to being reflexed after shooting it, as a matter of fact I got so obsessed that anything less than strait I would consider a failure.
But when I really look back at the facts, I realise that bows with some string follow ( now I'm talking moderate here) are extremely plesant to shoot and still do the job they are asked to do.
this bow for example, my 7th, is farely overbuilt and has some follow
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/snake/DSCF0036_3.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/snake/DSCF0037_2.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/snake/DSCF0048.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/snake/DSCF0042.jpg)
This bow shoots beautyfully, and took 2 pigs in his hunting carrear, the first with a pass thru, the pig never heard anything, and walked away just to lay down in sigth to die.
the second one after a doubble loung shot never made it 30 yards.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/Camppig/DH000014.jpg)
the other example is from a little 56 1/2" bow with 2' of follow
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/lava%20ambush/DSCF0009.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/lava%20ambush/DSCF0010.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/lava%20ambush/DSCF0020.jpg)
2 years ago I was hunting with this bow, I took a shot at a fair sized pig, I was shooting from an elevated position, the shot was true but high, hit the strong neck muscle area above where the spine dips, the bow is in the mid/high 50's and I was shooting a 640gr arrow,...the arrow was sticking out just about the same ammount from both sides of the pig, I was extremely disappointed by the penetration, and never hunted this bow again.
...a couple of months ago I was hunting a 72# HILL bow shooting a 830gr arrow, I hit a pig in the same exact spot as I did in the previous story, I was even shooting from a bit of elevation, the pig was just about the same size to, and you know what ? the arrow was sticking out evenly on both sides of the pig.
this made me rethink about that, that little bow with string follow has plenty power in it after all.
I realised that stressing to much about retaining refex in my bows might be a bit pointless.
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You are right Manny,and I am just like you,it don't really matter,just a personal thing I guess.
I don't mind it after it has been shot a lot,but still hate to have string follow right off the bat.
Pappy
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Nope nothing wrong with some string follow and its good to hear someone with your talent say it Manny.
I like mine to finish flat but I usually have an inch or so of follow but I only induce a little reflex.
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Enjoyed your stories Manny, and the pic's of the hogs! I agree with you and appreciate you stating your feelings on it. I'm kind of like you and Pappy in that I like the bow at least flat. But as Dana said, and I agree...some of the amount of string follow in a newly finished bow to some degree depends on the amount of reflex the bow had when starting tillering.
If you started the tillering process with a bow without any reflex in it up front, it would take a very skilled bowyer to finish the bow with it still flat when unbraced. ;)
Greg
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I remember when you made that first bow pictured, Manny. She's a beaut! I used to make a lot of bows from boards when we made selfbows in the archery class that I teach. They all had some stringfollow to them. Now we make fiberglass bows because the kids don't break them nearly as often ::)
I still have a couple of the board bows that I made as a demo for the students. Just yesterday I was shooting one because it's only 45# and I injured my shoulder. It seemed slow, but what a joy to shoot! I was only at about 15-17 yards and the arrows which were close to 600 grains had some pretty good arc to them, even at that short range. However, they arched pretty consistently right into the center of my target! I haven't shot that good in a long, long time. It was fun.
So, to get to the point of your thread, maybe on my next bow I should consider what it is that I want my bow to do, and build it accordingly.
Based on points of emphasis how would you build your next bow?
Points of emphasis;
1. Quiet
2. Accurate
3. Easy to shoot from different positions
4. Fast enough to put a 650 grain arrow through a deer :)
Stan
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Good thread Manny.You are comming to a conclusion,that many a accomplished bowyer has stated for yrs.SF,was accepted as a good thing by many,untill this whole speed thing became the main criteria for a hunting bow.One of the chief things that drew me to Bowhunting and archery,was the quietness of it.
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i agree whole heartedly. i have not put "the opposite bend" in any of my bows yet, so i always expected string follow, and i have gotten it to some degree. my hick boo combo has about 3 inches, more than i would like, but it shoots sweet so i don't care. the ipe i just finished has almost none, and it shoots well too. i know the hick shoots pretty sweet, but the handshock it has i have to think it is because of the tips being too thick. anyway, i like to see flat, but i think they do just fine with some sf. if it does what you ask, is quiet when doing it, is pretty while doing it, and does it with pnch, what more can you look for?
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Manny, I have a few bows that look sorta like that short one you have there. They all seem to perform very well actualy. Even though the tips do set behind the back of the bow the limbs still hold in a reflexed postion which seems to still make for good early draw weight, its not spongey like a straight bow with string follow. I do however still prefer the look of a bow with unbraced reflex.
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If you started the tillering process with a bow without any reflex in it up front, it would take a very skilled bowyer to finish the bow with it still flat when unbraced.
I think for most useful bow designs it would take more than a skilled bowyer - it would take a miracle... :)
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Forgot to write why I actually started this thread ::) ::)
For you guys that just started to make bows and see all this excellent ones posted by the score of top bowyers here, ...don't put to much pressure on yourself, a bow with a bit of follow is allright.
Stan, long time no see, howzit ?
rigth on Todd and Stan, QUIET, to me that's paramount (for hunting bows) I'll trade quietness for speed anyday, I can't begin to tell you the difference in the recovery process when a critter had not being spooked by any sound and just never really took of, to lay down and die most of the time in plain sigth.
Yep Ryan, hard to beat the look of a reflexed bow, ...but looks isn't everything ;D ;)
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My favorite bow is a 60#@26" osage self bow I carved out a year and a half ago. It was my first osage bow I have ever made. It started out life looking as if it could be mounted on an airplane and I induce very little reflex. It ended up with about a 1 1/2 to 2 inches of SF. I at first thought it was a beginners failure because of that. But it still chucks a heavy hardwood arrow with impressive speed, and I can shoot it more consistently accurate than I can with my 50# boo backed ipe with a nice Perry reflex. But I have still been looking to build a better bow. After reading this thread, perhaps my failure isn't the at bad.
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Bonater, How long is your bow? you might be able to kick the tips up and improve the cast a bit.
I don't mind a bit of string follow. Good thing because most of my self bows have string follow. ;D Not as bad as they used to be but not flat either. Pat
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65" ntn. I would have enough length to do that given that the last 6 inches or so of the limbs do not do any work but as my first effort with Osage, I am proud enough of it as it is. I have shot thousands of arrows through it and the SF has remained unchanged. It has good early weight and draws smooth. A couple of splinters on the back popped up early on but I glued them down with super glue and they have stayed put since.
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My favotire bow was made from 12% MC hickory. It's 80# at 27" with a steady increase in bow weight. It shoots arrows from 600-950 grain arrows well. I've been able to shoot accurately out to 45 yards.
And it's got about 3" of string follow :).
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Hey Manny,
Been good. Busy, but good. Got outta shootin' trad bows for quite awhile after messing up my shoulder >:( Now I'm going to have to build a few lighter bows to build back up. Not an altogether bad thing :)
Dig your new handle ;D
Stan
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Personally, I don't like anything close to 2" of follow. I usually get about 1-1&1/2" on my Osage D bows, and I like it there. :)
I've got one bow that has almost 3" of string follow, and I never shoot it. With my short draw length (24") and relatively low weight bows (45lb), I need all the efficiency I can get.
Sean
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i couldnt agree more with string follow it really doesnt bother me as long as it stays around 2 1/2
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I agree completely; WAY too much is made out of string follow. Some of my favorite bows have string follow, and they are hard hitting, sweet shooting bows. Another nice aspect of string follow is that the bow is under less stress when strung.
Good thread, Manny!!!
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my first successful bow is a hickory selfbow pulling about 75# at 28"...it has almost 3" of string follow, and shoots like a dream...having said that, there's some satisfaction as a craftsman in being able to tiller a bow with very little set...i have made a couple which i laminated in reflex, which come out to being just slightly reflexed after completely tillered...and they are good bows too
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;D ;D ;D
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nice bow, nice pig, nice hair :P, nice job all around. and i dont even know what string follow is, i just know that it aint good.
well, now i dont even know that. :(
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That's rigth Recurve, don't listen to everything you've being told ;)
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Just read through the whole thing Manny - that's a refreshing take on the whole thing :). All the bows I've made have some set in em (haven't made that many) and I'm just tickled that they'll kill what I'm shootin at - if I hit it ;D.
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You said it cowboy, "they kill what you're shooting at " the performance difference is so minimal, the cear difference is estetics ;)
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the clear difference is estetics ;)
And a little string follow makes it look even more like a true bow. Seems like string follow has it all going for it ;D
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i see you changed handle shapes...
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Danny, handle shape in my bows ? or handle ? :D :D
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How about this bow, a little string follow, but she surely did the job, 750gr arrow shot from a 58 # bow in thru the shoulder at a quatering angle and was just hanging from the nock on the other side :)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/Boar%20ELB/HPIM0345.jpg)
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How are those pigs for eatin over there Manny? I've got a couple of sow's in the past and one was like any other pork but the other stunk when being cooked and well, wasn't much on flavor :-X. Got any good recipe's? I heard there's a lot of axis deer over there, any other big game?
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Here's another stringfollow kill. I believe the bow is around 48#, it's been a while and I truly don't remember. Arrow was 600 grains or so with a big Ribtek up front. Shot broke a rib on the way in and stopped in the off side leg, breaking the leg bone.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/missstanna/f8cf1e6d.jpg)
Stan
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Right on Stan !!
cowboy, pigs here mainly feed on fruit year round, and taste great !!!.....no deer on my island, but on the others there's, axis, blacktails, muflon sheep and of course goats and turkeys, .....goats we have on this island too
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Your on Oahu then? I'm there with work a couple of times a year, perhaps I need to bring a bow and look you up next time?
Cheers,
Grant
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Yeah, I'll take you hunting, and wood harvesting if you want.
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I'm in the Canadian Navy, so I'm there a fair amount (or have been in the past). I'd love to roast a boar and get some Guava. Who knows, maybe I'll hit the Yew motherload and bring you a stave or two! Look for a PM sometime this fall or winter, we usualy come for the rain.
Cheers,
Grant
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I've build some bows which are still in reflex but when I go out and shoot I use an 55#@27" elm bow with 1 1/2 set.
Not so nervous on the fingers and still fast enough. Can't hunt here but shooting on 3-D-Targets. Also with the elmbow.
I think stringfollow is an asthetic thing and up to 2" or 3" it's ok because shooting gets more stable.
I friend of mine is shooting an ELB with 2" Set, long arrows with high fletches - slow shooting but good targeting ;D
With a fast bow it's easy to shoot fast - and don't hit ;)
Greetz
Cord
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I've built a few bows now and it seems the more I build the more string follow I'm getting. Can some one tell me what the main cause is for getting string follow in a bow? I've made a couple of red oak bows lately and the first one had around 1 - 1 1/2" ( 64" ntn 60# @ 28) and the one I'm working on now has 2 1/2 - 3 " ( 59" 45# @ 28). I induced no reflex into either. I've done everything the same, except the one with more is shorter. Is this the problem?
John
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be careful never to strain your bow past the final intended draw weight such as if you are building a 50# bow dont strain it to 60#.
tiller slow and be careful not to form hinges
and 59" is really short for a red oak bow pulling to 28" draw i would keep it up around 66"
i also like 1x3x6 board so i can make my board bows a 1/2" or so wider to have more wood working to keep set less
i hope this helps maybe someone else could chime in to add to what i am missing
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David, i never take them past final weight. I have this bow at 45# at 22" right now and it has 2 1/2" set. So are you saying a wider limb will help with the set? These limbs are 1 5/8" up to 9" from the tip then tapering to 1/2".
Thanks, John
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my prefered design for red oak bows is 2" wide 66" ntn i keep it 2" wide and then taper the last 12" to 1/2" or 3/8"
but i would say a wider limb would help you alot. i made a bow that was 40# 1 1/2" wide and 3" of set but my other was 60# and 2" wide and took about 1" of set
i am a begginner so hopefully someone else will comment
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White woods like oak need more limb to take over the work load. If it's short, nmake it wide (2"+). If it's narrow, make it long (72"). I have sverel red oak bows, all wonderful shooters. Though, that will just save you a little speed, maybe give you some strength.
But I'm biased towards long, narrow white wood D bows ;D.
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Hmmm, a long narrow D bow with 1" of follow,...what a great hunting weapon ;D
bambule, right on ;)
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Seems to me if you are getting a little SF with your bows this could be interpreted as a sign you are a good bowyer (and not a bad one ;)) A severely overbuilt bow typically doesn't follow the string, correct? In contrast when you've approached the limits of the wood you'll get a little follow, but also get light limbs. The old adage "a good bow is 90% broken". Look at it another way. Suppose you could take your SF bow and add back wood to the point where SF goes to zero. You gain speed from less SF, but you'll lose speed due to the added weight. I am not sure in practice what the relative values of these two are given the million real world variables. I know one thing though NP- success proves to me you know what you're talking about.
DAVE