Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Tommy D on September 30, 2022, 12:22:47 pm

Title: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on September 30, 2022, 12:22:47 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/F08SEwE.jpg)

 I have roughed out what I guess would be termed a “sapling” - it’s about 3 inches in diameter. It is from a tree that is a “known bow wood” here in East Africa … I believe the Latin name is Thespesia danis and it is one of the preferred woods of the Liangulu/ Wata elephant hunters.

I am trying a flat bow version and roughed the wet stave to close to floor tiller and then bent a little reflex (2-3 inches) into it to dry on a form.

I have now taken the outer (backside) bark off and have noticed some horizontal lines like little veins crossing the back of the bow.

As I have not used this wood before I can’t tell if they are just “there” or whether I induced some compression fractures on the bows back when I reflexed it.

My questions are 1) Do frets / compression fractures on a bows back matter?

2) If so could de-crowning get rid of them?

Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Pat B on September 30, 2022, 01:13:27 pm
Cracks across the back are deadly to wood bows because in tension it pulls the cracks open. You may try removing that back ring or even decrown the stave.
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: bradsmith2010 on September 30, 2022, 01:45:51 pm
i dont know, has the bow been strung,, is that the sap wood layer,, is there heart wood,,under it
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: mmattockx on September 30, 2022, 02:36:18 pm
My questions are

1) Do frets / compression fractures on a bows back matter?

2) If so could de-crowning get rid of them?

1) Yes, that would likely blow the first time you bend it any significant amount
2) Maybe

All you can do is remove wood off the back until you get to a clean ring or clean surface if decrowning. If there is enough wood left after that to make a bow, then it should be good to go.


Mark
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on September 30, 2022, 07:09:09 pm
Are those definitely frets/ compression fractures?
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on September 30, 2022, 07:22:00 pm
i dont know, has the bow been strung,, is that the sap wood layer,, is there heart wood,,under it

It’s the layer right under the bark… no distinction that I can see between heart and sapwood.

Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: George Tsoukalas on September 30, 2022, 07:23:41 pm
Tommy, compression fractures happen on the belly not the back.
It almost looks like you strained the stave too much too quickly.
I've never seen that amount of cracks on the back of a stave but then again I am not familiar with that wood most likely.
Check my site for more.
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Hamish on September 30, 2022, 07:40:04 pm

Trees can get compression fractures whilst still alive. Hurricanes, big animals(maybe an elephant or rhino), or being bulldozed, could be causes. The wood is okay to use for static purposes,  like furniture, but I wouldn't be using it for a bow.

If you clean up the edge of the stave where a fracture comes out you will see how deep it runs. It will most likely be deep, removing a ring is unlikely to remedy the problem.
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: superdav95 on September 30, 2022, 11:53:35 pm
Ya it looks suspect.  I’d be worried about how deep those cracks or fractures run.  If your still intent on making this a bow I guess you could back it with bamboo or sinew back it even.  It may not be worth it and get yourself a better piece of wood.  Best of luck. 
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 01, 2022, 08:08:35 am
I got these on the back of a well-used osage bow, I never seen this before, the bow is a bamboo backed osage bow now.



 
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on October 02, 2022, 12:42:20 pm
I did a bit more scraping and I think that those horizontal lines are only in the bark …. Here are a few pics where I have removed the bark.

Also a picture through the section I have narrowed for the handle.

I will leave it to dry some more and see what happens. It’s a very fibrous wood.

(https://i.imgur.com/Uj3jLhT.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jmZaE7J.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/9rNiUK8.jpg)
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Pat B on October 02, 2022, 01:00:20 pm
That's the cambium layer on the back. no wonder it fretted
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on October 02, 2022, 02:18:34 pm
That's the cambium layer on the back. no wonder it fretted

So you reckon we are good to proceed…
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Pat B on October 02, 2022, 05:50:22 pm
Well, it depends on how deep the frets went. Sometimes cracks in the lesser layers go into the good wood. Get a good, solid back ring exposed and see it they did. If so you will have to go down another ring.
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 02, 2022, 06:57:02 pm
Im guessing there is a bow in there,,,scrape off  bark as Pat suggested and see how it looks,
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: scp on October 02, 2022, 08:54:07 pm
If chrysal is too deep, you can try to make a backward bow, turning the current back into belly.
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on October 03, 2022, 02:28:10 am
If chrysal is too deep, you can try to make a backward bow, turning the current back into belly.

How would this be different from decrowning the existing back?
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Jim Davis on October 03, 2022, 09:52:23 am
If those are compression fractures, the fibers are not broken. They might not fail in tension. I'd just make the bow and see what happens. If it fails, it's only wood and you are where it grows.
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on October 06, 2022, 05:42:58 pm
So far so good… at about 22 inches….

Just started to take a tiny bit if set and I think I may toast the belly before going further …

Pictures tomorrow …
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Fox on October 06, 2022, 06:58:06 pm
Yeah… that’s totally just in the cambium, I really don’t think it will be a problem. I’m guessing that if you have removed the cambium that there’s none in the wood.
Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: Tommy D on October 12, 2022, 11:20:34 pm
Well it’s holding up so far at 21 inches. Just started to take some slight set. I was going to toast the belly and put in a bit of reflex at the same time at this stage.

(https://i.imgur.com/RsKMk1d.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Pu3QX9d.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qqHMIz1.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MfhaMeX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/AJKdvkC.jpg)

Title: Re: Compression fractures on the back when drying a sapling stave
Post by: scp on October 13, 2022, 02:56:57 am
If chrysal is too deep, you can try to make a backward bow, turning the current back into belly.
How would this be different from decrowning the existing back?

Making it a backward bow, you get a better chance to remove all deep chrysals.