Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Muskyman on November 02, 2022, 07:45:35 pm
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Do you use the titebond liquid hide glue or the pellets you mix?
Also do have to buy the ea 40 online or is it available somewhere else, if so I can’t find it.
Does it come anything smaller then pints.
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I have never used tight bond hide glue but have read that it doesn't make as strong a bond as granular hide glue because it has additives.
Knox gelatin from the grocery store is as good a hide glue as you can buy, very cheap as well.
EA-40 used to come in half pints, I have some, all I see are pints for sale now.
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Thanks Eric, I’ve read different things about the shelf life of the ea 40. What is your experience with it
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Also do have to buy the ea 40 online or is it available somewhere else, if so I can’t find it.
Does it come anything smaller then pints.
I can't say on the sizes, but they do have a distributor list on their website, so you may be able to find someone closer to you to buy from if you prefer.
I don't think I would ever use a hide glue anywhere I would use EA-40. What are you planning for this?
Knox gelatin from the grocery store is as good a hide glue as you can buy, very cheap as well.
I have used the Knox gelatin and it worked well for patching a pin knot on the back of a bow.
Mark
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mattockx, I was going to use the hide glue for sinew or rawhide. The EA-40 I was going to use for wood to wood glue ups. I have seen people on other online sites using titebond 3 for both. People on here seem to like the EA-40 for gluing on risers and tip overlays and hide glue for sinew or rawhide. I was just asking about the hide glue because I was curious about the Titebond hide glue. I’m glad I did because of the Knox gelatin Eric told me about. I never knew that that was a glue of any kind. Never done anything much with wood so it’s all new to me. I did glue a riser on the Osage bow I’ve been working on with Titebond 3 because that’s what I have for now but, it’s more of a practice bow for me and if it pops off I’ll either try and glue it back on with some EA-40 or toss it. I figured I’ll learn more by doing and making mistakes along the way then any other way.
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I used to buy smooth On in quart cans, and it does have a shelf life. Mine went bad after 5 years, and it failed on glue ups. Threw it away. Best to buy it in pint cans ,and use it up in a couple of years for limb lams ,handles, and tip over lays. I have used knox gelatin, and tb 3 for sinew backing, and tb 3 for applying snake skins. Both work, so it is just a personal choice. Most on here prefer hide glue for sinew backing, and claim that it makes a snappier bow. Threw a chrony I didn't see that much difference to even worry about it.
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I agree with Eric about liquid hide glue. With the additives it has it is less strong plus if it isn't fresh it apparently takes forever to dry. By fresh I mean when it was produced not just buying off the shelf. When was what is on the shelf produced. I think it's used primarily for furniture building.
Knox gelatine or granular hide glue would be better for sinew, snake or fish skins or rawhide. That's all I use for these applications anymore. I've used TB glues for skins and rawhide with good results but prefer hide glue because it "sucks" the rawhide and skins to the wood surface and in my opinion makes a better application.
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mattockx, I was going to use the hide glue for sinew or rawhide. The EA-40 I was going to use for wood to wood glue ups. I have seen people on other online sites using titebond 3 for both. People on here seem to like the EA-40 for gluing on risers and tip overlays and hide glue for sinew or rawhide. I was just asking about the hide glue because I was curious about the Titebond hide glue. I’m glad I did because of the Knox gelatin Eric told me about. I never knew that that was a glue of any kind. Never done anything much with wood so it’s all new to me. I did glue a riser on the Osage bow I’ve been working on with Titebond 3 because that’s what I have for now but, it’s more of a practice bow for me and if it pops off I’ll either try and glue it back on with some EA-40 or toss it. I figured I’ll learn more by doing and making mistakes along the way then any other way.
I've never tried the Knox gelatin on a backing or sinew, but it should work fine for that. I found it did gel quite quickly, but that was on a small patch and not a full sinew backing that has a larger volume of liquid to set. I have glued cloth backings on with TBIII and it worked OK. I expect it would also work OK for rawhide. I think Pat is correct that hide glue or Knox is the better choice for rawhide, though.
EA-40 is very well regarded for wood glue ups and laminating limbs. I have used TBIII for risers, tip overlays and laminating limbs and it has worked well with no failures to date. I will still use it for risers, but I am switching to EA-40 for laminating because TBIII doesn't dry completely hard and I think it allows a bit of creep over time. I had a lam bow glued up with TBIII that lost some reflex and I suspect glue creep was at least partly responsible. The only downsides to EA-40 are the cost and the toxicity of the fumes, its performance is never in question.
I would say if your riser pops off it is because you didn't have the fades tapered enough, not because the TBIII was inadequate.
This bow has the riser and tip overlays glued with TBIII. Still shooting fine 2 years later: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,68831.msg965904.html#msg965904
This bow has everything glued with TBIII. Riser, limbs, overlays and underlays. Again, still shooting fine. It is the one that lost the reflex: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,70862.msg994666.html#msg994666
Mark
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It’s just a block of scrap Osage that was left over from harvesting some staves. It’s not shaped or anything yet. Didn’t get the best fit either. Probably about a 2x2 chunk. I should get a belt sander I guess, that would help fit stuff better. I have a portable band saw that I cut the 2x2 piece with but it doesn’t like cutting anything of any size. I bought it originally for roughing out fishing lures, mostly balsa wood. It’s okay for that. Been looking at some 36x4 belt sanders with a 6inch disk. Thinking it would help shaping handles or risers
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It’s just a block of scrap Osage that was left over from harvesting some staves. It’s not shaped or anything yet. Didn’t get the best fit either. Probably about a 2x2 chunk.
The fit is important with TBIII, it will not fill any gap at all. Most guys that use a belt sander use much bigger models but a 4x36 will let you do a lot for bow sized work. It is all I have and I haven't had terrible problems with making it work well enough.
Mark
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Thanks Mark, good to hear about the sander. I’ve been wondering if that was big enough. I’ve been looking at a used sears 4x36 with a 1/3 hp motor and was concerned if it has enough power. Might see what else I can find out about belt sanders before I buy one
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MY EA-40 got thicker and thicker over time, I didn't like it, not because it wasn't a good glue but I seemed to get more on me than the bow I was working on. I prefer water soluble glues, EA-40 won't come off your skin without lacquer thinner and even then, it is hard to get off.
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A person can make the EA 40 mixture thinner by letting the stiffer mixture set on a coffee making machine burner a few minutes.It'll become very thin then.
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I thin epoxy with denatured alcohol for topcoats on fishing lures. Don’t know if you can use that in EA-40 I’ve never worked with it. Mixed epoxy first then added the denatured alcohol.
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Try it see what happens.
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Mixing epoxy with denatured alcohol, acetone or other solvents to thin it is what it known as Massey finish, popularized by Jay Massey to seal his sinew backed bows to protect them from the wet environments of Alaska. It is a difficult finish to apply(generally wiped on). I guess you could spray it on. I use it to saturate the hemp cord handle wraps I use on my selfbows and backed bows.
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Found this online
Method #2: Thinning Epoxy Resin Using a Solvent
Using a solvent to thin your epoxy is a much easier and quicker method, but it will drastically affect the compressive strength of the epoxy, so we do not recommend this method. However, if you still go ahead with this, here are some of the solvents we suggest you use. Solvents like denatured alcohol, lacquer thinners and acetone.
It also said heating to thin is probably best but not to over heat it.