Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Muskyman on November 04, 2022, 02:14:13 pm
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As some of you know I been fooling around with a piece of Osage that I grabbed from my scrap pile. With the tiny growth rings. Well I finally decided enough is enough and started making it into a bow.
I’m probably going to back it with rawhide but, here’s a few pictures of where I’m at. I did glue a piece on the riser for my handle and fades with Titebond 3. Not the worst fit for a file job, for me anyway.
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Couple more pictures
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Last one
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Better picture of riser
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Nice! Make sure the fades dib after the riser so you don’t risk popping off the handle! Thin ringed osage still makes a fine bow. I back them with rawhide, not because they “need” it, but because it protects those thin rings against the inevitable dings/scratches.
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Not sure what you mean by (dib) ….And I’m planning on rawhide for the back. If you have checked out my post on chasing a ring it will be obvious to you as to why I’m putting a backing on it.
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Looks good mike. Keep us posted on your progress. Rawhide is the way to go. It’s fairly cheep and easy enough to do to provide protection. I’d use tp3 if you’ve got it. Just get the rawhide good and soft and wet. Towel dry then coat it and the back of the bow with tb3 and apply the rawhide. I do half at a time like many others here do. Lay the hide down on your bow back as you would glue it. Size it up for length you want and trim it. Apply glue to one half of hide and one side of your bow lay it down. Then fold the unglued half over on to the half you just glued down and repeat with glue applied to both limb and hide. Pretty easy. You can prestretch it even if you want to and wrap it with some strips of old t shirt material or something that breathe but still hold it down. Some guys back string the bow then apply them. While the wraps are on I use my thumbs to smooth out any areas of excess glue or spots were it bubbles and work them out to the sides. I do this entire length of bow to get it all down good. I take my wraps off after about an hour or so to inspect it. You can leave them on too bunt any pattern left from the wraps become more permanent the longer you leave the wraps on and the glue fully dries. Taking them off before fully dry gives you an opportunity to smooth out some of those patterns or line in the hide surface. Best of luck with it.
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like the rawhide too
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Going to try and order some rawhide after work and voting tonight. I’m assuming I should put it on before I tiller? Looking forward to getting it together and seeing how it turns out.
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I’m sure you can do it after too but I tiller mine then back. Any fine tuning after is usually slight.
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Thanks Dave. I’ve watched several videos of people putting it on a bow and I don’t think anyone ever said when they put it on.. Makes since now that I think about it. Hoping to get back to work on it soon.
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Did a little more work on my stave today. Took the limbs down to about 65 thousandths. It’s got some bend in the limbs but there was some places that had some reflex so I got the heat gun out and heated and clamped it down. I’m not sure if I got it straight or not yet. I left it clamped down to my bench. Wasn’t sure about how much heat to put on it so I figured I’d go slow and if it needs more I’ll try again..
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Seems to have straightened out pretty good. Going to try and work on getting it to where I can get a string on it this week. Then work on trying to tiller it.. I have some rawhide coming in the next day or two. After I get the backing on it, and if it doesn’t break then or before I’m planning on painting the back. And I have some elk leather I’ll probably make a handle with.
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Good stuff. Keep us posted on your progress.
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Got a little more work done on my bow today. Floor tillered it and cut in nocks and got it on a long string. Did some scraping and quit before I got to carried away and did something stupid. Gonna try and work more on it this week.
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Another picture
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Lookin good so far mike
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Finally got some more work done on my bow today. It’s got a string on it and I’ve been working on the tiller. It’s 52 or so lbs at 22 inches right now. Trying to hit about 50 lbs at 30 inches in the end. Going to back it with rawhide
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Another picture
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Took a little set but came back to straight after I unstrung it
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I’m seeing right limb needs more mid limb bend at this point to even up with the left. If you don’t have a tillering gizmo designed by Eric Krewson, they are easy to make and are a valuable tool.
Looking like your off to a good start.
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I’ve got one and you’re right. The last time I marked it it showed that. I stopped right there after marking the limbs. Had to get to some other things. Hoping to get back to it tomorrow.
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It’s good to take a break, let it rest, then exercise 20 or 30 pulls, then recheck things before shaving off more. I have a problem not knowing when to walk away, then making a mistake.
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Lookin good mike. +1 for what bentstick said.
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Pay attention to where that "temporary" set is at after you work the limbs. Thats where its working too hard and you want to make the other parts work more. I could be wrong but looks like you have taken a bit of set right out of the fades? But keep in mind a little set doesnt hurt. Never did see the dimensions you have on this piece. Regardless, nice looking work, keep at it!
Mike
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M2A, dimensions on this bow is 72 inches tip to tip 1 1/2 from fades to mid limb then tapering to 1/2 at the tip. Also make sense that it would take set where it’s been working harder. I will say the limbs are a little thicker just past the fades then a little thinner from there on down the limb. I did get a spot in the upper 3rd of limb I let get thin and I thought it looked like it might be getting a hinge in it so I marked it then stayed away till I got everything else caught up to it. I’m trying to learn that lesson bentstick. I have the same problem, but I’m trying to learn that it’s okay to take a break and that I don’t have to finish it all today.
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Worked on it some today. I thinking the outer third of the right limb needs bend more but that part has 3 knots and my scraper doesn’t seem to take it off real good. Might try sandpaper to see if I can get a little more bend there. It’s the bottom limb. Really close to my target weight.
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Lookin good mike. Getting close there.
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Looks like you got her coming your way. Nice job.
Bjrogg
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Thanks, worked on the tiller some more today and probably will call it done. Also worked on the handle and tips and did a pretty good sanding with 80 grit. Need to put the rawhide to it and finish it off. Ended up right at 52 pounds so I ended up really close to my target weight. Going to wrap the handle with either elk hide or maybe jute. I might cut a shelf in it too. I shot about 20 arrows through it also. Definitely shoots left without a shelf but, seems to be pretty fast but I have nothing to compare it to.
Made a mark on it where my hand would sit and tied a nock point on the string at 1/2 inch high. Sitting on my hand a nocked arrow points pretty hard left so I’m not shocked it’s shooting left.
I’ll post a few photos later.
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Pictures
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Doubled up on the first
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This is how much set it took after final tilleringand shooting it about 20 or so shots
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Congrats mike on getting a bow out of that stave. How does it shoot?
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Shoots okay Dave. I probably need to tune it to the right arrows to get it shooting better. Seems faster then my hickory bow I built.. Seems to be shooting left pretty hard. I might cut a arrow shelf into it and see if that helps it. I’m going to back it with some thin rawhide I bought. Also might try to heat treat it on a reflex form before I put the rawhide on it.
Do you back string your bow before you glue the rawhide on it? I saw someone do it on a video once. Just curious if I need to do that..
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Rawhide can be put on with little backset in bow. I would carefully heat a little backset in your bow but don’t go as hot as you would with white wood and then add the rawhide with mild back stringing. Should give you good results. If you go to hot it could make it too brittle. As far as shooting left it could be a few things going on that may not be fixed with cutting a shelf. The shelf might help some but you will most definitely need to bare shaft shoot your bow to see what needs to be tweaked. Arrow spine probably has more to do with your pulling left or kicking left if that’s what going on. The shelf will get you slightly closer to center shot then no shelf but still need to get proper arrow tune. The bare shaft will tell all really. Look up bare shaft tuning on YouTube there a a number of good instructions on there to explain it. Best of luck
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I build my bows with no shelf like yours and yes the arrow points left because of it. With the proper spined arrow, the arrow will go where it’s pointed. If you sight down the shaft at full draw, you should find that will help correct the situation. I used to be a totally instinctive shooter when shooting recurves, and when I started making selfbows I would consistently shoot left. Once I forced myself to “ sight “ down the length of the shaft it pushed my shooting back to the right. ( Right handed shooter). Give it a try before you cut a shelf.
The bow looks pretty darn good to me. Congratulations.
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Mind if I ask why you are adding rawhide? You have already fully tillered and shot your bow. It must be solid. Rawhide will only slow your bow down. Your tiller looks good from Michigan. If you are looking down your arrow and its on target, yet still impacts left, your arrows are too stiff. A shelf can change that only because as the arrow moves closer to center the needed spine increases so the same arrow that shows stiff now may shoot good 3/8" closer to center.
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Bentstick, I’ve pretty much shot recurves instinctive my whole life. And yes I site down the shaft, basically with my peripheral vision. Shaft pointed at the target with my focus on where I wanted to hit.
I haven’t gotten into the exact cause for my arrows going left yet but, I’m sure it’s more arrow tuning then probably anything else. I tried to take some slo-mo videos of a few shots and best I could tell I have a nock left flight. Also thought I saw some nock up in one of my arrows. only have a set of test arrows that go 45 to 65 lbs. need better video to say for sure. My old eyes can’t really see the arrow flight like I used to. I’m not wanting to cut a shelf into my bow was just a first thought on getting my arrows shooting straight. I really need to get myself a fletching jig and a bunch of arrows to test with or at least a bunch of full length arrows once I get this bow finished up and to the point I can dial in on the exact cause of my problem. I’m like a lot of people on here in that, I don’t really like the look of a shelf on a self bow..
Thanks Dave for the input on the rawhide. I was kinda thinking if I cooked some reflex into this bow I probably wouldn’t need much else after that, before the rawhide goes on. Will the rawhide increase draw weight? If it does I’m assuming it can be reduced by a little scraping or sanding. I really don’t want to go any higher with that. This old guy can’t shoot 75 pounds anymore.
For the stave I started with I’m happy with it so far.
Pearl Drums, if you had seen my post on trying to chase a ring on this particular stave it would be clear to you why. Rings were super tiny and it was my first try at chasing a ring and after violating ring after ring I ended up giving up on it. It has a violated ring in a spot or two so I felt that backing it was my only option. Stave was basically a piece of scrap I pulled out of my firewood pile after I got done processing some Osage I cut earlier this year. It was only about 1/2 inch on one end and 1-1/2 on the other. So that’s basically why.
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Fair enough. Usually that would be added before you start bending a compromised stick. This one seems to have faired quite well with no backing, violations or not. Something must have worked in your favor. Rawhide wont add any draw weight or hold and added reflex. It will make a bow break more safe when or if it happens.
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Good to know pearl drums. The rings are tiny, maybe a 1/16th or so. The violations are just little oval spots. Two of them. One is mid limb and the other is close to the fades. I hope it doesn’t break but I never thought this was going to be a long term bow but more of a way for me to practice making one. A kind of getting my feet wet thing. I’ve got 6-8 decent Osage staves drying out that I processed in late September. I wanted to try and chase a ring and make a bow so I dug this piece out of the scrap pile.
Just never could quite make it end to end on it chasing a ring. I might take one of my pieces with much thicker rings down to a really rough bow shape to speed the drying up a bit later this winter..
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All good plans you have in your head. You have the right idea roughing a bow out now. Give it 2-3 months and its ready, especially in the drier winter months. As far as this bow is concerned. I would shoot the snot out of it as-is and see what happens. I'd bet it wont break. Not always, but most often a bow that wants to break will break as soon as you start doing any major bending.
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rawhide would be nice,,even if its just in your head,, it looks good too,,
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Congrats on a nice Osage bow. You did a great job and got great advice here
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Thanks gentlemen. Yes I did get good advice. Appreciate everyone’s input. I’m learning a lot on this site about making bows. And I realize that I’ve got a very long road to travel. About the only thing I’ve got going for me is once I get a good one made I’ll be able to shoot it. Always an instinctive shooter and never cared for compound bows. Shot my recurve while almost everyone else had a compound. I remember well many years ago shooting in a 3D shoot a guy showed up with a Osage self bow. He let me look at it (un-strung) I still remember that bow and remember thinking how really cool that thing was. He wasn’t the maker, I think it was a guy from Jamestown, OH that made it for him. Any way never cared much for compound bows and I’m betting I can make a deer just as dead with my self built Osage or hickory bow.
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killed a few deer with my self bow and sinew backed bows,,
its very fullfilling and good to eat too,, :)
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Congrats Muskyman, well done.
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Okay so rawhide is on the bow. Cleaned it up after a day of drying and still have to do a few things to the rawhide (remove ace bandage marks) Thanks JW for the how to.
So the next thing I’d like to do is stain it. From what I’ve read it isn’t easy to do and tends to turn out blotchy. What about painting it? I’m thinking I’d like it to be a light to medium brown color. If I paint it would I use water color paint? I’ve got a few pieces of scrap to test with and plan on doing that but wondering about the longevity. Any thoughts on what might be better, type of paint or stain? I’m thinking I’ll dress up the edges after I paint or stain the back.
Thanks,
Mike
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I always prefer leather dye or Minwax stain as I prefer the blotchy, mottled look it gives it. But, that rawhide is truly a blank canvas. I've seen some extravagant art done on rawhide backings.
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Mike, PD‘S advice is good. I use leather dyes. I think they look great. Make sure your rawhide is good and dry before moving on though. It would be a shame to trap any unwanted moisture. Depending on the moisture levels in your house and the type of heating you have will determine how quickly it will dry out. Remember you’ve added new moisture potential by smoothening out the ridges from your wrap. Don’t be in a rush to put stain and sealer on it give it a few days in a dry environment to be safe. Best of luck I’m sure it will look great.
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Thanks Dave and PD. My bow has been sitting in my family room which I heat with a wood burning stove, so it’s dry in there. Nothing I like better then shuffling across the carpet and touching momma on the ear lobe. All kidding aside it’s pretty dry in there. I’m going to work the next couple days so I won be fooling with it till at least the weekend. Then I might check the tiller again. Or it that to soon to bend it?
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I bet you’d be fine by then. Especially with it being heated with wood stove. Good for drying things out! I did a sunburst stain on one of my bows earlier this year using a combination of red, yellow, and black leather dyes. Here’s pic how it turned out. Can’t wait to see how you make out mike.
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Is that stain on rawhide? Beautiful either way. I’m not going to turn something like that out for sure. I am going to play with this thing a bit though. Just to see what I can make it look like.
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Thanks mike. Ya it’s hog intestine covering. It stains the same way. Here’s one with red stain on rawhide.
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Nice bow. Well done. Organic archer was telling you that your fades are cut straight from riser to limb. Most bow makers cut the fades in an arc for a smoother transition from riser to limb even if it is not a glue on riser. Just a thought for your future builds.
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Thanks bassman I’ll keep that in mind for the future. Dave what kind of stain or dye do you use? I’ve only been able to find fiebings leather dye mainly online. Or do you use wood stain like minwax or something similar.
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I’ve done a number of rawhide-backed Osage bows. I’ve always used Feibings leather dye. After the stain is good and dry I finish it with multiple coats of Tru-Oil and a final coat of spar urethane to dull the finish for hunting purposes. My favorite hunting bow is a rawhide backed Osage bow stained with dark brown Feibings dye. Good luck with your build.
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Thanks bassman I’ll keep that in mind for the future. Dave what kind of stain or dye do you use? I’ve only been able to find fiebings leather dye mainly online. Or do you use wood stain like minwax or something similar.
Mike. I use fiebings alcohol based liquid stain. I use a bunched up piece of clean rag to apple it. Wear gloves. It stain your hands!
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Thanks guys, that seems to be the leather dye I see the most online. I’ll have to order some. Good looking bow Will.
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After reading jakesnyders post about his bow breaking I’m going to move the bow I’m working on into a different room away from my wood stove and give it a little time to rehydrate before checking the tiller again. Just to be safe, it’s 25 feet or more away from my stove but, it is pretty dry in that room.
I’m going to take a stave down and take it down to a roughed out bow to speed up its drying.
Going to assume I’d take it to about 2 inches wide full length and maybe an inch thickness and leaving some extra wood in the handle then re-seal it?
Should I chase a ring on the back before I take it down to the 2 inch width? Or can I wait on that till I’m ready to start on the bow in 3-4 months?
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I’d leave it sealed on the back and not chase a ring just yet if this is still the same batch you cut earlier this year. You could still work it down a bit on the belly but don’t rush it as it’s still drying and would be a shame to ruin good piece of Osage.
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Same batch Dave. This is probably the best piece of it. It’s just a little short for me, with my draw length, so I was going to make a bow for my wife. It’s a really nice stave. No twist, no knots that I can see. Good growth rings.. just to short for me.
Maybe I’ll relax a little on that batch.. at least the better pieces. I’ve got some billets I could play with. Thinking about making a take down bow with one of the sleeves you can get from 3rivers..
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Well I finally got my leather dye in the mail. Put it on my rawhide backing last night. I used the dauber that came with it and it went on okay for the most part. I did have a few spots where it ran off the side of the rawhide and got on the side of the limbs. Also blotchy like some had said it would be. I’m going to try to put another coat on it and use a cloth this time. Also it seems to rub off onto my hand when I handle it. It might not be completely dry at this point. About 12 hours old, hoping that will stop eventually. Guess I’ll have to seal it with something.
Hoping I can sand the spots I had the runoff off the sides. If I can’t I’ll probably end up staining the sides as I’m not crazy about the look right now.
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Those hold too much dye. I use pieces of cotton t shirt. Dab one in the dye and then dab that on a dry rag to soak some of it out. Start with minimal dye and rub it in thoroughly. Reapply to darken to taste. If it was running off the sides you had way too much dye. An 1/8 teaspoon will usually do an entire bow.
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Thanks pearly, I pretty much figured I’d gone overboard with the dye using the dauber. I actually started out with a rag and being the impatient guy I am switched to the dauber.. been trying to fight my impatience since I started bow building, I’ve made progress but obviously not there yet.
I took my bow out to the shop today and did manage to get most of the dye off the sides. Also put it on the tillering tree and it looks like I might have a little more work to do on the tiller. Also going to get a regulation bow scale. The one I have now said bow is close to 65 lbs. it was saying closer to 50 before I put the rawhide on. I can pull it but it seems a little heavy but I’m going to wait until I get another scale before I try to finish the tiller. It looks pretty close to me but seems like one limb is bending a little more than the other. The scale I have goes to 4,5 or 600 lbs. I forgot what it goes to exactly but not the best for a bow scale.
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Got a new bow scale today and checked my bow and it was 55.54 lbs I was shooting for around 50 lbs
I sanded it real good after that and figured I’ll do any other tillering after I shoot it in. Going to try and put a jute handle on it with a small shelf made of 3 pieces of elk hide I have had for many years.
Here’s a few pictures as it is now right side is the bottom limb
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Another
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Rawhide stain
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Unstrung
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Good bend! Well done!
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Came out very nice. I like the blotching stain the rawhide took, adds character. Full draw looks great to me. Good job.
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Nicely done mike!
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I’ll post some final pictures when I get the handle on it. I’m still debating painting the back but don’t want to end up with something I’m not really liking. It is a test piece, sorta kinda. Can’t turn it into something hideous if I do nothing, I kinda like the plain Jane look but, kinda what to play with it too.
Also thought about taking it to the local archery shop if they have a chronograph there. Curious what it might end up shooting but not really important to me at this point.
Thanks to everyone for the help and input. You guys have all been great.
Also got my bowstring material, wax and a copy of the TBB volume I in the mail today. Should have bought the set but it’s a start. Also got a field point weight test kit. Now need to figure out what spline arrows I need get and buy a set
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Those hold too much dye. I use pieces of cotton t shirt. Dab one in the dye and then dab that on a dry rag to soak some of it out. Start with minimal dye and rub it in thoroughly. Reapply to darken to taste. If it was running off the sides you had way too much dye. An 1/8 teaspoon will usually do an entire bow.
This is exactly the same way I do it.
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Thanks Dave, I did read your post about using a rag and that’s how I started out. The color was really light and being the impatient guy I am I thought I’d go to the dauber and next thing I knew I kinda had a little mess going on. Lesson learned. I’m working on my patience, I’m just a little slow on the uptake. I was the same way when I started making musky fishing lures. My first ones were awful looking. Finally learned to take my foot off the pedal and got to where I was making some pretty nice ones. I just have to slow down and not try to be done tomorrow.
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Put the arrow rest on yesterday wrapped it and the handle with rawhide then today I put jute over the rawhide and glued it on with TB III rawhide was glued on as well. Now I need to put something on the jute and finish the wood with tung oil or something and I’ll be finished with it. Then I can have some fun shooting it and finding a good arrow spline match
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Looks good
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Brush that jute thoroughly with wood glue. I think you'd like it. It will never move, rot or loosen up.
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Thanks PD. I was actually thinking about putting the Massey finish on it. I’ve read some people saying that TB III gets gewy, I’m not sure what might cause that, it is supposed to be waterproof glue. I have used devcon on 2 ton epoxy on my fishing lures for years and have some, so I’ll probably go that route for my first one. Might try a beaver tail handle on my next one. Also got some tru oil yesterday to use as my finish for this bow. Being basically my first bow I’m kinda sticking with stuff I’m somewhat familiar with and trying to use all the great advice I’ve gotten on here.
I’ve noticed quite a few people naming their bows on here and this one has to be named (scrap pile) because that’s where I pulled this piece of wood from. If not for some of the posts I read on here it would have been firewood. I dug it out and thought I’d clean the bark and sapwood of it and see what it looked like. Glad I did.
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Congrats mike on a great build. Now make another one! ;)
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Okay, so I’m dredging up this post. I let this bow sit for a few months to dry. Harvested in late September last year. Was a piece of scrap from my harvest.
Anyway I finished it off tru-oiled it and it’s pretty nice but, it shoots left constantly left. I have two test arrow kits from 3 rivers from 35 to 80 lbs. all shoot left. Some nock left and some nock right. Always to the left regardless of nock position. Is it me or the bow? I can’t my bow pretty good and am going to set my phone up so I can see myself at full draw to check my alignment.
Could it be the bow itself? Seems to shoot good, the few shots I’ve taken. 55 to 60 lb arrows seem to stick in the target the straightest. Bow is around 46-48 lbs. shots were from about 20-24 feet. Raining here today so shooting indoors. Maybe it’s my form but never had a problem before. Made a hickory bow about the same weight and it seemed to shoot straight enough.
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My handles are very similar to yours. Handles are 1” wide, fades are 1-1/2” at widest point. The arrow will point hard left when sitting on the string at brace. I shoot a 12 strand D97 string, and have a full 28” draw.
Shooting DF, I cut my arrows 28-1/2” to back of point, and run 35/40# spine out of my 46# bows,and 40/45# spine out of my 50# bows. This is with 125 gr points, and 3-3” feathers.
When I first made the switch from recurves to this style of selfbow, shooting instinctively, I would always shoot left 4-6 “ depending on shot distance. I had to learn to look down the entire length of the shaft consciously to get things moved to the right. Eventually my brain recalibrated to subconsciously point the whole shaft to the target, and not just the end of the shaft.
Not saying this will work for you, but just my experience.
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Here’s a photo of my last bow, for handle comparison.
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Thanks bentstick.. I’m not 100 percent sure what I’m doing while aiming, I’m pretty much instinctive with shooting. I do see the arrow with my peripheral vision but don’t consciously site down the shaft. Probably line the tip up but, I think my shooting form is more of how I line my arrow up. Never really thought about it much honestly. I did make a discovery today, I think. Had a test kit of arrow tip weights and put a 190 grain tip on. Old ones were 125. I’ve only shot 1 shot so far but it seemed to shoot pretty much right on for left and right. Seemed to have a little nock high. Still have to do some more shooting but hoping it does the trick
Thanks for the reply though. Let you know what I find out later today if I can do a little shooting.
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Nock high should mostly be string nock adjustment, or possibly brace height adjustment.
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Hitting consistently left with fletched arrows is telling you they are too stiff.
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Okay, I did some more shooting today and am still not sure what is up yet.. I took one arrow and took the fletching off it. It’s 55-60 lbs spline according to 3 rivers. Bow is 48-50 pounds at 30 inches. So you’re saying you shoot arrows splined less than your bow’s poundage? With 125 grain field tips.
I took some slow motion videos of my arrows flying but they haven’t loaded onto my iPad yet and are hard to see that great on my phone with these old eyes 👀. I’ll look them over when they load up. I think I’m part of the problem because I’ll get a few shots that seem really good bare shaft then some not so good. Might be trying to see what they are flying to quick.
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Yes, but I’m only drawing 28”, and I cut my arrows to 28-1/2” from throat of nock to back of point. If your bow is 48-50# @ 30” it’s probably closer to 42-45# @ 28”. How long are you actually drawing, and did you take that into account? Lots of variables, form, arrow length, point weight, type of string, are just a few.
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My draw length is 30 inches. Arrow length is 30 1/2. I been trying different tip weights. 14 strands D97. I have test arrows from 35 to 80 lbs. I’m narrowing it down. Best I’m seeing so far is a 55-60 lb spline wt. 160 grain tip. Still playing with it but getting better results. Probably do more testing tomorrow.