Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: stuckinthemud on December 15, 2023, 05:09:26 pm
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Or, is this site slowing down? All the bows I have seen posted here for a while now have been stunning. Way past anything I have made. Now, this is fantastic on one level, gives us something to aspire to, maybe. It might just be me, but I wonder if it is also bad for the site. When I started out there were plenty of us novices posting indifferent bows, and getting really kind feedback. I wonder if novices aren’t posting so much any more? I still post pretty much everything I make, but as I only make a couple a year, I don’t really post that often. I would say I am pretty much still a novice, although I’ve been building since maybe 2016 and am still happy to ask for help Weirdly, I’m asking for people to just post stuff here, not just their best stuff. I only belong to a few forums and several have died as people stopped posting stuff. They just slowed down and quietly slipped away
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Food for thought...
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The quality of beginners bows seem much higher in quality than they did in the past. I guess this is due to how much information there is on this and other sites, that help them avoid most of the pitfalls that we went through.
Also newer bowyers may not be posting their learning experience bows, that broke, or had excessive stringfollow. They could be just posting the first bow they feel confident with.
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I think that’s kinda my point. For a forum to die all it takes is people who are too lacking in confidence to post. If you don’t think this site is starting to fail, check how many posts have been made in each section and compare that to last year. Warbow, horn bows, arrows, pretty much no new posts in the last several months. It was only a short while ago the bow page filled every day with new topics. How many new topics have been posted today? Insecure novices are not asking questions or asking for help and the rest of us are keeping way too quiet.
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I think the interest has been lost among younger folks unfortunately. The movies gave archery interest but that has faded and then came covid . How do a bunch old guys bring back the passions? I don’t know. It’s happened to all hunting and fishing sports. Im listening though. Also this time of year folks have a lot going on . Good topic .
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MoJam 25 will be in July. I hope to get the work out and see a large group of new, as well as old, people interested in learning to make bows. We had a great crowd for MoJam 20 and it was awesome to see old friends there. Maybe they are just busy with the holidays right now...
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I think that’s kinda my point. For a forum to die all it takes is people who are too lacking in confidence to post. If you don’t think this site is starting to fail, check how many posts have been made in each section and compare that to last year. Warbow, horn bows, arrows, pretty much no new posts in the last several months. It was only a short while ago the bow page filled every day with new topics. How many new topics have been posted today? Insecure novices are not asking questions or asking for help and the rest of us are keeping way too quiet.
I agree with you stuck… I still consider myself a novice in many ways. That being said there has been a slow down that has been noticeable. Not just here but other sites too. I don’t know what the answer is entirely but I think we need to post more build along bows perhaps. I found these were helpful for me and I learned a lot from these. I also like books too that have a wealth of info that can be referred to again and again. I plan to post more build alongs I think. What you think about this.
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I see growing activity on other sites including Reddit and Facebook. I know I have seen some people ask in general if there are any moderators on PA to approve joining the forum so it seems like there might be a bottle neck in the process. There may also be a slowing of using this type of forum versus other social media platforms.
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I've kind of felt what stuckinthemud is talking about as well.
Personally, I haven't posted any in a long time because I don't manage more than one of two a year, and because I'm not eligible for Bow of the Month anymore. It's also impossible to load good-quality images on this site. I do have a new one I might throw up here later.
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I lost count of all the primitive sights on facebook. I think this is where they are going now. One decent or good bowyer can either get a group started or join a new group and get 30 or 40 guys going building bows. New groups springing up daily. PA might have just run its course. I refer guys here all the time but I never see them show up.
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It's a shame because they don't know what they are missing. The in depth knowledge and explanations you get on here are so much better than the few lines you get on Facebook, which can be a bit confrontational, with no shortage of trolls and 'armchair experts'.
If I have a question, this is where I come.
Del
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It's a shame because they don't know what they are missing. The in depth knowledge and explanations you get on here are so much better than the few lines you get on Facebook, which can be a bit confrontational, with no shortage of trolls and 'armchair experts'.
If I have a question, this is where I come.
Del
Good point del.
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I post less than I once did, I call it question answering burn-out, I have been helping people with their questions since 96. There are a few old timers left here that sill answer questions so If I see the question has been answered by one of them, I keep quiet.
I am the same way on the Facebook sites, if there are already 35 comments about a guy's question, I don't bother to read any of them because what I would say has probably already been said. The problem with Facebook sites is you have a bunch of people that don't know squat about bowmaking putting out some really bad advice about how to do this and that. 75% of the advice on the various Facebook bow building sites is bogus.
Another thing I have run into is a flood of questions sent to me by PM on the M/L sites. I have taken pictures of everything I do in my shop, be it making bows or building flintlock rifles. When I post and answer on the M/L sites it is in depth with pictures to illustrate what to do or not do.
For the last 4 or 5 years people have been skipping the search feature and forums and asking me directly how to do stuff by PM. I cater to beginner questions and there is no shortage of guys with little or no experience that wasn't a private tutor.
My normal day would be to start answering questions at 7:00 while eating breakfast and not finishing up until 10:30 or 11:00. It wasn't unusual for a person to send me a PM with 5 or more in depth gunsmithing questions in the same PM.
I finally threw my hands up and posted "enough is enough" on the PM questions, they slowed down but I still got a few. I don't give the in-depth answers anymore and give them a link to where they can find what they are looking for.
I figured out everything in bow and flintlock building by trial and error, lots of errors but I am a crafty guy who likes a challenge.
Aparently others want all the answers handed to them and I am burned out as the answer man.
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I'm very slowly making progress on my new little bow, so in the next few days I'll post something :BB
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I’ve been trying to learn how to flintknap and it’s getting into my bow making time. I thought it was going to be quick enough to learn but, it turns out it’s very difficult to do. I do plan on making another bow this winter. I’ve made a few that never got posted, I think. I have noticed that it seemed a little slower but, I just figured it had to do with the time of year. Lots of experience on here and I’d hate to see it be gone.
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a slowing of using this type of forum versus other social media platforms.
this
It's a shame because they don't know what they are missing. The in depth knowledge and explanations you get on here are so much better than the few lines you get on Facebook, which can be a bit confrontational, with no shortage of trolls and 'armchair experts'.
If I have a question, this is where I come.
Del
you are absolutely correct Del
PA might have just run its course.
run its course as a format. there could be a tranistion of comunnity
it would not be easy
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The PA forum is dying because people have moved to modern social media platforms and this website is outdated; with owners who refuse to renew the long-neglected security certificate. Few in the age of internet data-mining software enjoy the unease of visiting a site that says “DANGER - Unsafe Connection” every time they log on.
Reddit’s r/bowyer forum is thriving, with dozens of posts per day. Be careful what you wish for, though, because 75% of those posts are beginners flooding the forum with questions that can be solved quickly and with minimal effort by any one of the many bowmaking books, blogs or YouTube videos out there. There’s no shortage of people there who don’t put a single iota of research into the craft before posting, which can make it frustrating to scroll through.
PA has early 2000’s pop up ad spamming now too. Posting pictures is a runaround. You’ll jump through the hoops if you love the forum, but most people won’t. All it needs is an update and it’s not all that difficult to update a website. Hate to see it go the way of dinosaur, but it will if they don’t fix the security warning telling everyone to stay away.
I’m bummed about the current state of PA. Wouldn’t be where I am today without the unrivaled collective knowledge of the bowyers here. I send everyone who asks for resources here, and show them how to do detailed searches. Hope it makes a turnaround, but the outlook is not so good.
Edited to add details.
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It can be intimidating posting on a site like this where many of the members post absolutely stunning bows, and sometimes where the discussion gets extremely technical. But that is also what makes this site great. That and the fact that we virtually never have the trolls dogging on someone about their work, questions, or as is very common on Facebook forums, getting extremely defensive to what was well intentioned (and needed) criticism. Either way, I will always look to PA as both a source of inspiration and information.
It’s also important to remember that there are many many people that set out to make bows who start the journey, make one or two, break one or two, and call it something that they “used” to do. PA is not as easy to find early in the journey as a facebook group, unless someone early on directs you to it. I was fortunate to find PA early on my journey and didn’t have to go too far down the rabbit hole before I found it. And that is probably why I continue the journey.
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I'm a beginner, and glad I found PA. I did a lot of reading here before making my first post. But just to echo what others have said, when I did post I got great feedback and help with things. I'll admit it's a little work to post pictures here with the resizing and all, but once you get a system down it's fine. If anyone out there happens to be reading this who is a new bowyer or just considering giving it a try, I say join, ask, share your stuff and contribute to the wealth of knowledge and experience here.
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The PA forum is dying because people have moved to modern social media platforms and this website is outdated; with owners who refuse to renew the long-neglected security certificate. Few in the age of internet data-mining software enjoy the unease of visiting a site that says “DANGER - Unsafe Connection” every time they log on.
Reddit’s r/bowyer forum is thriving, with dozens of posts per day. Be careful what you wish for, though, because 75% of those posts are beginners flooding the forum with questions that can be solved quickly and with minimal effort by any one of the many bowmaking books, blogs or YouTube videos out there. There’s no shortage of people there who don’t put a single iota of research into the craft before posting, which can make it frustrating to scroll through.
PA has early 2000’s pop up ad spamming now too. Posting pictures is a runaround. You’ll jump through the hoops if you love the forum, but most people won’t. All it needs is an update and it’s not all that difficult to update a website. Hate to see it go the way of dinosaur, but it will if they don’t fix the security warning telling everyone to stay away.
I’m bummed about the current state of PA. Wouldn’t be where I am today without the unrivaled collective knowledge of the bowyers here. I send everyone who asks for resources here, and show them how to do detailed searches. Hope it makes a turnaround, but the outlook is not so good.
Edited to add details.
I agree. I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, of course, but I think we'd see a revival if the owners of the site would put a little work into updating the place. Their choice. The security issues and the difficulty of posting pictures probably drive a lot of people away, since there are many other options.
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I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, of course, but I think we'd see a revival if the owners of the site would put a little work into updating the place. Their choice. The security issues and the difficulty of posting pictures probably drive a lot of people away, since there are many other options.
The PA community has been geting a bit of a free ride for quite a while. Maintaining a forum is not free or effortless. In addidtion to the volunteer work of the mods, the owners pay for the server and whatever server administration is needed to keep the ball rolling. The ads generate some revenue, and the users, thus far, have only been asked to support the magazine. How that all pencils out for the owners is probally indicitive of how much updating and maintence we see.
Without a new business model for the owners..........we only have to look at Paleoplanet for an example of whats on the horizion.
Typically in situations like this, someone has to step up to the plate. They would need a business model or otherwise have a finacial plan.
And the time to do the ongoing maintence.
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I’m a beginner with hickory. Should I post my current build?🤠
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I’m a beginner with hickory. Should I post my current build?🤠
YES...please... :)
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Maintaining a forum is not free or effortless. In addidtion to the volunteer work of the mods, the owners pay for the server and whatever server administration is needed to keep the ball rolling. The ads generate some revenue, and the users, thus far, have only been asked to support the magazine. How that all pencils out for the owners is probally indicitive of how much updating and maintence we see.
As a retired CIO, I totally appreciate your point. Maintaining and administering the infrastructure necessary to host a public forum like this is not without significant cost, and I doubt that ads alone are covering it. Unless a better business model reveals itself, I don't see a happy ending here.
There is one thing that members can do to help right now. I know that ads are annoying, but for better or worse that is how this site is being financially supported. So, click through an ad whenever you visit this site so that some ad revenue can be generated.
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The PA community has been geting a bit of a free ride for quite a while. Maintaining a forum is not free or effortless. In addidtion to the volunteer work of the mods, the owners pay for the server and whatever server administration is needed to keep the ball rolling. The ads generate some revenue, and the users, thus far, have only been asked to support the magazine. How that all pencils out for the owners is probally indicitive of how much updating and maintence we see.
Without a new business model for the owners..........we only have to look at Paleoplanet for an example of whats on the horizion.
Typically in situations like this, someone has to step up to the plate. They would need a business model or otherwise have a finacial plan.
And the time to do the ongoing maintence.
Yeah, you're right. I hope I didn't sound like I was just griping; it's just the way it is, and I hate to see it happen. That's all.
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I’m a beginner with hickory. Should I post my current build?🤠
Heck yeah! Hickory is a great place to start and we'd love to see it. I hope to get some pics up of my current bow, as well. I haven't done any building for over a year, but I have four bows almost ready for backing.
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Yeah, you're right. I hope I didn't sound like I was just griping; it's just the way it is, and I hate to see it happen. That's all.
WB. just following up on your perspective, nothing directed towards you or your comment.
It is possible that one day, if something goes wrong at the server, PA may simply be gone. This archive of advice, sharing and pics unaccessable and irretriveable.
I saw this happen at another long running forum when the owner passed. Lucklily, a few had noticed the owner had not been posting and some things were getting out of date. It being a computer oriented site, some members had the expertise to ressurect a replacement once the executor was able to release access. Time sensititve backups and online registrations had to be accessed. It almost didnt happen, as sorting out onlineline accounts and finding backups for an internet forum were probally not very high on the executors list of things to get done.
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I'll admit it's a little work to post pictures here with the resizing and all
The security issues and the difficulty of posting pictures
Why in 2023 do people still insist on posting pictures directly to a forum? Use a third party hosting site and simply link to the pictures there. No need to resize or anything else and you can share them easily anywhere you want across the interwebz. My biggest gripe with people that use the forum hosting is the pictures are so small as to be worthless. Again, in 2023 we have long since passed the point where a picture that is 200kb is worthwhile. It is simply a big thumbnail these days. My pictures are 5-6mb each, which allows for actual detail viewing and I wish everyone else would do the same. Some of the work posted here is absolutely exquisite and I would really like to be able to see it in large format.
I, too, have noticed the forum slowing down substantially. I think social media is probably the largest reason for that. Forums everywhere are slowly withering and dying as the younger generations move to instagram and others. The sad thing is that forums serve as a repository of technical information that is vastly superior to most of the newer formats.
For myself, I haven't posted a bow in a couple years because I've been busy with building a house, finishing a basement and now building a garage. I will get back to bows once I have all my infrastructure completed. Hopefully this forum is still here for that.
Mark
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I'll admit it's a little work to post pictures here with the resizing and all
The security issues and the difficulty of posting pictures
Why in 2023 do people still insist on posting pictures directly to a forum? Use a third party hosting site and simply link to the pictures there. No need to resize or anything else and you can share them easily anywhere you want across the interwebz. My biggest gripe with people that use the forum hosting is the pictures are so small as to be worthless. Again, in 2023 we have long since passed the point where a picture that is 200kb is worthwhile. It is simply a big thumbnail these days. My pictures are 5-6mb each, which allows for actual detail viewing and I wish everyone else would do the same. Some of the work posted here is absolutely exquisite and I would really like to be able to see it in large format.
I, too, have noticed the forum slowing down substantially. I think social media is probably the largest reason for that. Forums everywhere are slowly withering and dying as the younger generations move to instagram and others. The sad thing is that forums serve as a repository of technical information that is vastly superior to most of the newer formats.
For myself, I haven't posted a bow in a couple years because I've been busy with building a house, finishing a basement and now building a garage. I will get back to bows once I have all my infrastructure completed. Hopefully this forum is still here for that.
Mark
Instagram et al are great for showing off one's finished work, but forums are so much better for learning the process. I help out at an aquarium forum, one of the few that is still really active, and the amount of knowledge exchanged is really pretty amazing. Same thing here.
I also agree that bigger pictures are better. The issue is that with more updated forums, one can simply post high-quality photos straight to the forum without going through a third party. It's quicker and easier. It would be nice to not have to go through the extra step. I suspect it's a server issue, and since this is a free service, we can't really complain. I sure hope we can keep it going for a good while yet.
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I suspect it's a server issue, and since this is a free service, we can't really complain.
Yes, bandwidth and storage.
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I see growing activity on other sites including Reddit and Facebook. I know I have seen some people ask in general if there are any moderators on PA to approve joining the forum so it seems like there might be a bottle neck in the process. There may also be a slowing of using this type of forum versus other social media platforms.
Ryan makes a good point. I was invited to be an admin on a Facebook page "board bow builders" by two other PA Forum members several years ago. We were thrilled when after months and months of work we surpassed a thousand members. A couple years went past and we thought our minds were blown when we hit 3,000. A year later we somehow got a major boost in their algorithm and we currently have 23,300 members AND WE DON'T APPROVE A NEW MEMBER WITH LESS THAN ONE FULL YEAR ON FACEBOOK! I think we may be the largest wood bow group on Facebook, despite not allowing stave content, fiberglass content, and especially no drywall tape crap.
The main thrust of our group is helping new bowyers get into the craft as quickly and easily as possible, though we have some really well seasoned expert pros posting regularly. And yet, despite the huge membership we have a small core of regular posters and commenters, and really not a lot more posts now than we had with a thousand members. I have no idea how many lurkers reading, following, or starting new projects.