Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bentstick54 on January 19, 2024, 01:21:36 am
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Most of the bows I’ve made have needed some heat corrections, and I’ve always tried to make all corrections on an entire limb at the same time. Sometimes I would have to hit an area a second time to get things where I wanted them.
I’ve started roughing out one now, in between honey do’s, and one limb has some sideways snake, some front to back snake, and some twist. I know I can’t get all the side snake out, but my question is, how many times can you heat the same area in order to make corrections without damaging the wood? I’m assuming I would have to stabilize previous corrections so they don’t pull out back to their original shape? And if one limb needs a lot more correction than the other limb, does the extra heat needed to correct that limb make any difference between the two limbs, or does it all balance out in tillering? All corrections being done at close to floor tiller.
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Photos
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had one similar to yours. I did mine with steam. A wallpaper steamer with my bow in a downspout. One limb at a time. Laid it on a piece of melamine and traced out the limb and marked the spots I wanted to bend. Then drilled holes where the clamps would go for the corrections. I think I steamed it for about an hour then took it out of the downspout and clamped it. If I remember correctly I did each limb in one go. I had pictures of it when I did it but can’t find them now. I did find a couple before and after pictures.
Here is it before and after the steam bending. This might not help you much but I’ve had better luck with steam.
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Well you have your work there Bud.🤠🤠 But yes I go back to the caul with a heat gun many times on my bows. Osage can take it if you don’t scorch the wood. I usually leave my thickness at about 5/8” thick on the first straighten session. If a lot of heat happens then most all that wood comes off anyway.I lay them on there sides on a flat bench and shim to make the side adjust to its correct position. Then go to the caul for my front to back correction . Then back to the bench on its side and back to the caul. Sometimes 5-6 times. For me the heat bench is where the good bow lives.
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Well done Muskyman!!!
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Great job Muskyman. I think I remember reading your past thread. My stave is a 10 year old stave that I saved because of the growth rings. I’ve always read steam for wet wood and dry heat for dry wood, and I’ve got an inexpensive moisture meter that won’t register a reading below 7%. This stave won’t register a reading with it.
Thanks Arvin, I knew you went back to the heat bench multiple times, but wasn’t sure if you had ran into any issues in doing so. I’m sure you start out with better staves than what I’m used to working with, but remember you had built a snakey bow once also. I’ve still got to thin the limbs down some first, then decide where to start. Hopefully I can get the tips aligned and the twist out.
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Picture of end grain.
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I've used dry heat with oil quite a few times on a stave with no noticeable problems. be sure the back of the stave is sealed or it may possibly check whether using wet or dry heat. Even a stave that was cut 10 years ago has some equilibrium moisture and adding heat will force that moisture out which can cause checking.
I use spray shellac to seal the back because it is easily remover when the job is done.
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Yeah Pat, I’ve gone to shellacking the back, and using canola oil on the belly anytime I’m applying heat. Pretty much solved my checking problems.
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Just looking at the first and second photo I would have probably steamed reflex into the outer limbs first and then addressed string alignment by steaming the handle and bending it in a press. After that, I would have used dry heat for smaller adjustments as necessary. Never had a problem going back over an area with dry heat multiple times, but once you apply dry heat to an area, don't go back with steam - that has resulted in lots of headaches for me in the past.
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All good advise here from guys who know. I remember that build of yours too musky! Well done. I’d thin down some more as you’ve said and steam the big corrections and use dry heat for the minor ones. I also would be inclined to steam in the recurve of tips then resolve twist and alignment issues. Best of luck with it.
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Thanks Gordon and Dave. I really don’t have a set up for steaming. I have very limited room in my basement, that is my “hobby” room. My bench is a Black & Decker workmate that is not super stable, and have limited clamps to work with, I would have to set up to steam in my garage, which is about 5degrees, and would lose to much time trying to get it to the basement to get it clamped down. So I will take it a little at a time with dry heat.
That being said I got it closer to side profile, thinned both limbs down to about 5/8” and shellaced the back. I got my form set up and the bow clamped in place. The top limb in the original photos is the worst, with twist one way then the other, then back and forth with multiple twist directions changes to the tip. I think I should be able to move the last 6” of the tip over when I take the twist out of that last 6”. Then I will know if that’s enough to line up the tips, so I’ll know how much of the sideways snake I will have to deal with.
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Here’s my 1st attempt in the 1st 8” from the handle taking some twist out. If it holds, I’ll move the bow down on the form, and work on the next 6” or 8” section twisting back the other way, and continue the same way to the end.
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Forgot the picture
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Steam will allow for larger corrections is all. You may find with your approach of tackling it but by bit will work just fine. You may not even need to get all the wiggles out so long as the tips are in good alignment and the bend is good it will shoot well. Sometimes we get into this mode of imposing our will onto a piece of wood and the wood let’s us know it doesn’t want to comply. It may be better in some cases to let the wood somewhat dictate what the bow will be. Sure it may not be perfectly straight but it shoots good. Looks like you are starting with a decent piece of Osage which is pretty resilient. I use a an old Wagner wall paper steamer attached to a section of 4” diameter abs pipe about 3’ long. I just capped off the one end and attached my steamer hose to it. It works well and doesn’t take a lot of space. The good thing about steam aside from its ability to make bigger corrections is that you cannot over do it in heat or over heat your piece. Steam is pretty constant and safe for wood integrity. The Heat gun can scorch and can be over done if done too much. Just take it slow and I’m sure you have it bending in no time.
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I’ll have to look into a wallpaper steamer Dave. Not sure I want more equipment around that I might use a couple of times a year. Being retired, I can play a little here and a little there on my hobbies. I build a couple 3 bows a year is all, more just to pass the winter months after deer season and before camping/ fishing starts.
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I got the twist out and most of the deflex/ reflex in the bad limb. It’s pretty close to being flat like the other one, but might play with the center section just a tad more. I fully intended to leave all the snake in both limbs if I could get the tips lined up with the center of the handle. I think I can move both tips enough to get the the string centered up.
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More photos of progress.
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Sorry double posted 1st and 2nd photo. Here’s before starting to take out deflex/ reflex.
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Lookin like progress
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A wallpaper steamer is about $65 at the big box stores. Probably could find one used for half that.
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Well got the twist out, string lined up, and limbs straight (flat). Limbs are not bending at all yet so I may use a scraper tomorrow and remove the dried oil surface on the belly and then let set a few days to rehydrate before starting any tillering. Once it starts bending a little, I’ll find out whether or not any other heat corrections will be needed.
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Looking great!
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Looking nice. Great job getting it straightened out. Gotta love Osage.
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Thanks guys. Arvin gave me confidence in heating same areas if needed multiple times. I used a card scraper and removed a very thin layer off the belly surface hopefully so it will rehydrate easier since I used oil on the belly and edges. Here it is sitting on the tillering tree, hopefully after it’s final adjustments before tillering.
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Impressive bentstick! Looking good!
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Looking nice, way to stick with it, Like Arvin I often tweak several times until I get them where I want them. :)
Pappy
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Looks really good. Really like the tillering tree too. I need to make something similar to yours, mine is not the best for sure.
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That is a very flat bow blank! Very well done sir!
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Very nice work. Should be a nice bow when finished.
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Well here’s a progress report. I’ve got it to 46#@26”. Limb on the right is the one that was deflexed/reflexed so badly, and twisted. 1st picture at full brace, 2nd at26”, and 1/3 after being strung 4 o 5 hours and shooting about 10 arrows off it. About 1/2” set in the outer 1/3 off the limbs immediately after unstringing.
Am shooting for 42#to 43#@28” final if I’m lucky.
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Its looking good! It could be the angle of the pics but the right limb seems stiffer then the left in the middle of limb mainly.
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Dave, it is pretty much that way, but that’s the limb that still has the snake bend there, and where I tried to take all the deflex/reflex out of. That area is as thin as the rest and is actually moving more than it shows. Using a copy of Eric Krewsons tillering gizmo, it shows that area bending with the rest.
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Looks great, nice work so far!
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Here’s a few pictures of the back profile. About 1/2 way into the tiller this far some of the twist in the right limb started coming back. I started to try to control it with edge limb thickness but wasn’t getting very far so I went back with the heat gun, it took very little at this point to take out the twist, but then I lost some of the flatness I put in. So I went back and heated again and got it back to where I had it at the start of tillering.
The snake in the upper (right) limb is where it doesn’t look like it’s bending as much, but when pulling on the tree it is bending some through there. There’s several small knots in that area, one of which I filled that had a hole in it with sawdust and super glue. I’ve about decided that I coaxed what I wanted this bow to be about as far as I could, and now it’s best to let it be what it wants to be. I’ve still got 2” to go and want to drop 3#-5# in that 2” so we’ll see.
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So glad it worked out for ya. Looks good. Are you gonna back with snake skins?
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Not fond of snake bows but that’s a beauty! Well done!
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Since I had 5# or 6# to lose and wanting another 2” to gain in draw length I decided to listen to Dave and try to get some more bend in mid limb of the snakey right limb. I concentrated the major of my time there, occasionally adjusting the left limb as the tiller changed some. The right limb looks better to me, but still looks a little stiff mid limb. I got it down to 44#@28”, about where I wanted. I shot 50 arrows through it today with no noticeable difference in tiller or draw weight. Immediately after unstringing still holding about 1/2” to 5/8” set in both limbs. I like the way it’s feeling at the shot so far. I want to shoot another 100-150 arrows through it before finishing to make sure it nothing changes, and it still wants to be a bow.
Dave, if it holds up, I might put some snake skins on it if I can find some reasonably priced ones. But not until I’ve shot it a bunch.
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Well done sir! I’d call that a success with that little set. If it shoots good mission accomplished. It looks great to me. Sometimes we can mess with things too much and end up with less of a positive result. This is something I catch myself doing. I’d be very happy and proud with a bow like that. Well done.
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Thanks Dave. I figured for what I started with, if it holds up long term, I won 90% of the battle on this one. I’ll let the tree win the other 10% lol. Hopefully today I’ll shoot it in some more and see how it does.
One weird thing about this stave is that about where the snakey spot in the right limb is the growth rings get thinner and ends up with about twice as many out to the tip. I don’t remember ever noticing this before, and not sure what would have caused such a big difference in the growth ring difference.
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Guessing I wold say what ever caused the snake at that point caused the growth ring difference. But I’ve not noticed it before either. Also on snake bows Ive noticed that when the snake comes toward the bowyer when on the tillering board it makes the limb look stiff in that area . Optical illusion so to speak.
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Thanks for giving me the confidence to reheat the same areas multiple times. Really seemed to work with no noticeable side effects at this point. Here are some photos of the swirling twisted grain just below center of stave, and the growth rings at both tips. Not the best photos but hopefully they show decent.
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Finally purchased a couple of prai rattlers skins to finish this one out. I need to put a couple more coats of Truoil on it and a leather handle wrap, and she’ll be ready to shoot some 3d. Thanks for all the advice/help.
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That looks really good to me, very nice job. ;)
Pappy
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Looks great, love the snake skins. Congrats
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Thanks Pappy.
Thanks Muskyman. I thought this one deserved snakeskins.
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Ya you did a nice job on this one! Well done.
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Thanks Dave, I appreciate it.